My friends in ARS told me they had to let half their office go on Friday. Supposedly similar things happened to NRCS.

You may check to see if your county still has an NRCS conservationist.

edit to post a link to an article
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://fox4kc.com/news/rural-kansas-hit-by-federal-job-cuts-as-programs-grind-to-a-halt/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwiMwankh8uLAxXZiv0HHc_GAOgQr_oDKAB6BAgVEAE&usg=AOvVaw09aN3XlzBNnNhxgi4fj8qA

Hopefully the lady that took away my apple at the airport got fired - what a waste of resources.

They provide a service, but holy cow, they are slower than Christmas with mountains of bureaucracy with no look to innovation or adaptation.

Unless our government is working on a skeleton crew, I'm not shedding a single tear when anyone else gets fired. Go work for someone who has an incentive for you to actually work when you're there.

cavscout96 said:

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They provide a service, but holy cow, they are slower than Christmas with mountains of bureaucracy with no look to innovation or adaptation.

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THIS is exactly why DOGE is happening....to make them fix it

There are outstanding people who work for the federal govt, doing important work.

But no amount of sob stories about good people and good programs being cut is going to squeeze a tear from this tax paying stone as long as theres more of the absolutely absurd amounts of fraud, waste, and abuse to be found we have already seen exposed.

The whole system is corrupt and does not work for us. A few million here and a few billion there have ruined the value of the dollar, and mortgaged our childrens futures with insane debt and inflation.

There will be time afterwards to discuss a rebuild and spending money appropriately and wisely on good important services, but the entire system needs to be aggressively cut down to a manageable size first.

Have a buddy who retired from ICE 9 months ago. He laid out for a couple months and then went to work for a private firm.

All he does now is biotch about having to work for real.

NFS and NPS survive on probationary hires. This is going to gut their new hires and dramatically reduce the number of people caring for our public lands.

I want to cut waste as much as the next person but no new hires coming in to replace an already aging employee pool is going to take a decade to recover from. I know that sounds extreme or over stated but It's the truth. Many of those hires took 3-5 years or more to get hired. Cutting that out for just one year, even if they fix it in the next budget is going to take a long time to repair.

AllTheFishes said:

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NFS and NPS survive on probationary hires. This is going to gut their new hires and dramatically reduce the number of people caring for our public lands.

I want to cut waste as much as the next person but no new hires coming in to replace an already aging employee pool is going to take a decade to recover from. I know that sounds extreme or over stated but It's the truth. Many of those hires took 3-5 years or more to get hired. Cutting that out for just one year, even if they fix it in the next budget is going to take a long time to repair.

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I am sorry, but this is the exact reason we shouldn't continue to finance any of it. If it takes you 3-5 years to make a hire, that is on you and your department and you deserve to have your allowance cut until improvements are made.

Yep. My " probationary period" was…." Ok we hired you. We are going to train you and then you can go to work. If you don't perform we will hire someone else that can."

TacosaurusRex said:

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AllTheFishes said:

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NFS and NPS survive on probationary hires. This is going to gut their new hires and dramatically reduce the number of people caring for our public lands.

I want to cut waste as much as the next person but no new hires coming in to replace an already aging employee pool is going to take a decade to recover from. I know that sounds extreme or over stated but It's the truth. Many of those hires took 3-5 years or more to get hired. Cutting that out for just one year, even if they fix it in the next budget is going to take a long time to repair.

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I am sorry, but this is the exact reason we shouldn't continue to finance any of it. If it takes you 3-5 years to make a hire, that is on you and your department and you deserve to have your allowance cut until improvements are made.

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I get you and agree on the surface that makes sense. In reality it's due to budget cuts and lack of budgetary support that it ended up like this in the first place. It's being told to do more with less for decades of budgets and nobody really caring or fighting for the USDA is how you end up in this system.
Fewer hiring supervisors covering more and more area. Less money for budgets results in people being brought in on probationary roles and left there till it's time to promote them and then forcing them out and hiring more probationary hires. In an effort to do more with less they swell their staff in the busy season with temporary hires that are probationary hires for the summer. Guess what season it is right now? Time to hire all those temp hires. Guess who won't be staffing the parks and public lands during that busy season this year?
I'm not arguing that there aren't things that need fixing but this is using a sledge hammer to do a tooth extraction.

I feel like instead of targeting the DC apparatus that's causing problems these actions are targeting the on the ground blue collar folks who do the work. So instead of fixing the problem your forcing out people who do the real on the ground work and leaving the beurocrats and problem is still there.

apparently " using a sledge hammer to do a tooth extraction." is all these bureaucrats understand. There is an easier way, but that doesn't get their attention

TacosaurusRex said:

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AllTheFishes said:

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NFS and NPS survive on probationary hires. This is going to gut their new hires and dramatically reduce the number of people caring for our public lands.

I want to cut waste as much as the next person but no new hires coming in to replace an already aging employee pool is going to take a decade to recover from. I know that sounds extreme or over stated but It's the truth. Many of those hires took 3-5 years or more to get hired. Cutting that out for just one year, even if they fix it in the next budget is going to take a long time to repair.

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I am sorry, but this is the exact reason we shouldn't continue to finance any of it. If it takes you 3-5 years to make a hire, that is on you and your department and you deserve to have your allowance cut until improvements are made.

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This doesn't make sense to a lot of people who are only experienced with NPS/NFS/USFS from the Texas experience. Federal park lands are impossible to run without the ability to hire seasonal staff. The federal government has been continuously cutting their budget over the last several years, and now they have been forced to let go all of their low wage seasonals. You should expect to see an astronomical reduction in the quality of our federal parks, trails, campgrounds, etc.

Where I'm at in Montana, there's a ton of people who work for the USFS seasonally and then have winter jobs. Those people are now scrambling and there's on other jobs available.

1990AG said:

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apparently " using a sledge hammer to do a tooth extraction." is all these bureaucrats understand. There is an easier way, but that doesn't get their attention

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But it's not the bureaucrats that's are going to suffer. They are still ensconced in DC. However, I would advise not planning a summer trip to a national park this year.

BenderRodriguez said:

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There are outstanding people who work for the federal govt, doing important work.

But no amount of sob stories about good people and good programs being cut is going to squeeze a tear from this tax paying stone as long as theres more of the absolutely absurd amounts of fraud, waste, and abuse to be found we have already seen exposed.

The whole system is corrupt and does not work for us. A few million here and a few billion there have ruined the value of the dollar, and mortgaged our childrens futures with insane debt and inflation.

There will be time afterwards to discuss a rebuild and spending money appropriately and wisely on good important services, but the entire system needs to be aggressively cut down to a manageable size first.

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This is accurate

AllTheFishes said:

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1990AG said:

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apparently " using a sledge hammer to do a tooth extraction." is all these bureaucrats understand. There is an easier way, but that doesn't get their attention

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But it's not the bureaucrats that's are going to suffer. They are still ensconced in DC. However, I would advise not planning a summer trip to a national park this year.

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Roger that.

Every single one of the people that run all of these agencies have had a choice to follow along, fat and happy, padding their nests versus working hard for the American taxpayer. We all have choices to make on the things we manage or oversee.

They had choices and chose poorly.

AllTheFishes said:

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But it's not the bureaucrats that's are going to suffer. They are still ensconced in DC. However, I would advise not planning a summer trip to a national park this year.

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This reminds of the petty stuff Obama pulled during the govt shutdown, like barricading off monuments on the national mall.

But honestly, whatever. Shut down the natl parks for a summer.

Still need to make cuts.

BenderRodriguez said:

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AllTheFishes said:

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But it's not the bureaucrats that's are going to suffer. They are still ensconced in DC. However, I would advise not planning a summer trip to a national park this year.

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This reminds of the petty stuff Obama pulled during the govt shutdown, like barricading off monuments on the national mall.

But honestly, whatever. Shut down the natl parks for a summer.

Still need to make cuts.

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I'm not arguing that cuts shouldn't be made, but where they are made is what matters.
I'm a hunter and fisherman and generally enjoy our national public lands. There is a big difference between cutting bad spending and not having a government at all. That's called anarchy and I don't think anybody wants that.

This isn't going to cause the national parks or forest to be shut down. It's just going to mean fewer people working at them. So when the drunk guy at the campsite next to you won't shut up there won't be a ranger to come take them to sleep it off and your families has to put up with it. Longer lines at entrances. Not stopping the idiots spray painting or defacing our parks. I could go on and on about the little things and it all adds up.

If you really want to burn it all down and start from scratch, understand that the scope of damage that will be done in the process likely will not be recoverable. I don't that that's an over the top statement full of internet hyperbole I truly believe it.

allthefishes said:

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If you really want to burn it all down and start from scratch, understand that the scope of damage that will be done in the process likely will not be recoverable. I don't that that's an over the top statement full of internet hyperbole I truly believe it.

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Okay.

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. The current waste, fraud and corruption in our federal govt is unsurvivable as a free nation.

We existed somehow without the current vast federal leviathan for the first 200 years of nationhood. I'm confident we can somehow figure out life without a corrupt kleptocracy.

BenderRodriguez said:

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allthefishes said:

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If you really want to burn it all down and start from scratch, understand that the scope of damage that will be done in the process likely will not be recoverable. I don't that that's an over the top statement full of internet hyperbole I truly believe it.

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Okay.

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. The current waste, fraud and corruption in our federal govt is unsurvivable as a free nation.

We existed somehow without the current vast federal leviathan for the first 200 years of nationhood. I'm confident we can somehow figure out life without a corrupt kleptocracy.

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^This

Its interesting to watch the exact same things play out any time cuts are discussed at any level of govt, ever.

When the city is broke, they cry about cutting police and fire, not the mayors office.

When schools are, they threaten teachers jobs and not admin spending.

Etc, etc.

Thats why we are in the situation we are now.

Add in the inefficiencies in EQIP, NRCS, BLM, etc and I'm fine with a reset. I thought about going the govt cost sharing route on several improvements at my ranch but I honestly could not stomach it. When I go to HEB in Alice or Kingsville I play the "Who's paying with their Lonestar card" game and I realize I'd be no better than those people who drive up in their late model cars and proceed to pay for 80% of their groceries with someone else's money. Private business make do with the leanest staff possible, the government can figure it out too.

ETA: when government employees start having to deal with all the regulations they created, maybe then they'll understand why private business is opposed to so many of the regulations. When a new regulation is created, the government gets a new department and a new building. In private businesses someone get to wear an additional hat and have the joys of more responsibility for the same pay.

BenderRodriguez said:

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allthefishes said:

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If you really want to burn it all down and start from scratch, understand that the scope of damage that will be done in the process likely will not be recoverable. I don't that that's an over the top statement full of internet hyperbole I truly believe it.

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Okay.

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. The current waste, fraud and corruption in our federal govt is unsurvivable as a free nation.

We existed somehow without the current vast federal leviathan for the first 200 years of nationhood. I'm confident we can somehow figure out life without a corrupt kleptocracy.

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What really scares me is that after all this chaos I don't think Republicans stay in power and it will be Democrats in place to conduct the rebuilding.

Well in 1992 I applied for a soil scientist job with them, and was told in no uncertain terms that the fact that I am a white male made it impossible for them to hire me.

So eff them.

We have a family friend who spent something like 30 years as a "temporary hire" for NFS. Get hired in the summer, go on unemployment in the winter, rinse, repeat. His wife has a full time FSA job, so health care was covered

This needs to be fixed.

You don't hire teachers in the fall and fire them in the spring. When I worked enough land to need a hired hand, I didn't fire them in the winter. I paid them for the year, knowing that we would work 80 hour weeks in the summer, and 0 hour weeks in the winter, at times.

I'm pretty sure the parks have repairs and maintenance that can be done year around when there are no visitors

BenderRodriguez said:

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allthefishes said:

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If you really want to burn it all down and start from scratch, understand that the scope of damage that will be done in the process likely will not be recoverable. I don't that that's an over the top statement full of internet hyperbole I truly believe it.

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Okay.

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. The current waste, fraud and corruption in our federal govt is unsurvivable as a free nation.

We existed somehow without the current vast federal leviathan for the first 200 years of nationhood. I'm confident we can somehow figure out life without a corrupt kleptocracy.

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That GS-7 Range Conservationists in Brady, Texas is not likely a part of the WFC they're looking for…….he's the guy stomping in the brush with a rancher helping decide where the best place for a pond would be or deciding what brush control method would work best for his mesquite. I posted this on F16 - it's food for thought

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Trump and Musk screwed to pooch on this one. A regular "RIF" might have been better and nailed upper folks with the lower people and saved more money. It may have been fine for some agencies, but they used a blunt instrument instead of a scalpel in some cases. Taking all the new hires wasn't smart in my old agency where it's getting harder and harder to find new employees with solid ag backgrounds. Face it - farmers are getting older, farms are getting bigger, and Jr wants out of ag. They already had to drop some standards because not enough college graduates took the course load required. Ultimately, as always, it screwed the worker bees in the field doing the work and left the drones they really wanted to get rid of.

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It not hard to find people with solid ag backgrounds or degrees for the USDA/ARS/FSA jobs. The problem is we all looked at the application process and heard the timelines from app to hire and decide we can get a different job faster than it takes the Govt to respond to the application.

My cousin decided to give it a shot while working at a family business. It was 8 months from application to 1st response. He ended up in the job 14 months after application.

I'm really curious as to how these firings are being mandated.

Are agencies being told "cut staff by 10%" or are they being told "cut expenses by 10%"?

There are Facebook Groups out there like the one below for "Alt" National Park Service.

https://www.facebook.com/AltUSNationalParkService/

The people in that group hate Trump and are openly calling to "resist" him. Were I of that mindset, I would make the cuts as ridiculous and painful as possible. We saw that during the Obama Administration when they closed parks, and even blocked off state highway overlooks near parks, during a government shutdown.

And we've already seen malicious compliance in the DoD. Told to remove DEI, they instead removed Basic Training units covering the Tuskegee Airmen. Currently, they are being told to remove DEI books from DoD school libraries. Instead, they are removing anything that mentions civil rights and slavery.

I suspect that the barbers and gym attendants in the USDA headquarters in D.C. are not being laid off. Nor are the GS-19 Assistant Undersecretaries of Agriculture for left-handed strawberry pickers in Zimbabwe.

Any one of us could look at a business and figure out how to get by with 90% of the budget, or 90% of the workers, and make it as painless as possible.

I totally expect to find out that the bureaucrats are intentionally being stupid and malicious with the implementations of laws they don't like.

Quote:

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The problem is we all looked at the application process and heard the timelines from app to hire and decide we can get a different job faster than it takes the Govt to respond to the application.

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I worked for a few years as a technician for the Texas A&M Experiment Station. It was a mixed State/Federal station, and I actually worked for a USDA researcher.

He came to me one day, asking for my resume. Apparently it had been mandated that USDA hire their own technicians, and not sub the jobs out to Texas. He wanted me to transfer to the federal job, so he took my resume, and wrote the job description to fit me. My work history, my skills, my abilities. He then sent it off to the Wizards at USDA for their blessing and list of candidates that fit my qualifications.

I came in third.

At that time, being in the top 3 was good enough, and I got to keep my job.

TheVarian said:

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Do we know which jobs are cut? I saw a post from back country outfitters and they said they were cutting jobs and now it's bad, etc. very "educated" people were up in arms in the comments per usual.

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As far as I know, if you had been on under a year, you're gone - even with a doctorate and a note from Jesus.

AgResearch said:

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It not hard to find people with solid ag backgrounds or degrees for the USDA/ARS/FSA jobs. The problem is we all looked at the application process and heard the timelines from app to hire and decide we can get a different job faster than it takes the Govt to respond to the application.

My cousin decided to give it a shot while working at a family business. It was 8 months from application to 1st response. He ended up in the job 14 months after application.

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We couldn't find people to qualify for Soil Conservationist positions who had taken……………….soils. Now they hire ecologists, and a host of other majors as "resource conservationists". Forget about agronomists, wildlife biologists, and range conservationists.

B-1 83 said:

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AgResearch said:

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It not hard to find people with solid ag backgrounds or degrees for the USDA/ARS/FSA jobs. The problem is we all looked at the application process and heard the timelines from app to hire and decide we can get a different job faster than it takes the Govt to respond to the application.

My cousin decided to give it a shot while working at a family business. It was 8 months from application to 1st response. He ended up in the job 14 months after application.

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We couldn't find people to qualify for Soil Conservationist positions who had taken……………….soils. Now they hire ecologists, and a host of other majors as "resource conservationists". Forget about agronomists, wildlife biologists, and range conservationists.To

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To be fair, in the late 90's and early 00's starting soil conservationist positions with NRCS were at or just below the poverty line. I remember looking at it and after taxes they made just above what an E2 was making straight out of basic training. So top grads weren't applying because they had better options and the kids who barely graduated were all that was left applying.