At least for most of the state. Weather has been, overall, warmer than usual. Hoping I don't regret passing on a couple of nice bucks, while holding out for one of the older bucks. Western Brazos county.
Cameras are still picking up the big boys, but movement seems much less, now that the rut is over. One place last week 3 bucks were traveling as a group.

Good luck for anyone hoping for success the last seven days!

Is the Harvest Option MLDP as easy to acquire as it seems? Doe numbers seem to be rising steadily, in our area.

Regarding MLDP. They have two options now (see below) The harvest option seems to always be lower or need more land.

Process is fairly straight forward on the conservation option and much easier now that they allow camera counts. I basically get to suggest to my biologist what I think for the year. They are also not strict on mandating the harvest and are also willing to work with you on more tags if needed.

Also need to consider the benefits of the extra work. For instance, without MLDP I can only hunt does Thanksgiving doe weekend. This allows me to hunt an extended season. The other benefit is it actually "forces" you to pay attention to the annual trends.

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From their website:

Program Options

Harvest Option

The Harvest Option (HO) is an automated, 'do-it-yourself' option for MLDP participation that provides landowners with a deer harvest recommendation, tag issuance and general guidance about wildlife and wildlife habitat management. Participation in the Harvest Option does not require habitat management practices, deer population data or the participant to receive technical assistance from a TPWD wildlife biologist. Read more Harvest Option details in the MLDP Information PDF for download below.
Conservation Option

The Conservation Option (CO) offers program participants the opportunity to work with a TPWD biologist to receive customized, ranch-specific habitat and deer harvest recommendations and MLDP tag issuance for white-tailed deer and/or mule deer. This option does require the reporting of certain types of deer data as well as completion of specific habitat management practices each year in order to participate and remain in the program. Read more Conservation Option details in the MLDP Information PDF for download below.

Plus Harvest Option is way cheaper. But your permits are dependent upon your acreage and the county survey that TPWD does each year. Grimes county must have their spotlight survey line in an area with few deer and I figure Brazos is similar. Before switching to HO, ask someone in Brazos what their permit situation is.

I'm ready for late youth/ muzzleloader so we can get another doe or two.

The bucks are super run down and busted up right now. And at this point, I think their chances of escaping the neighbors for the season are pretty good.

Can choose does only for harvest option so buck tags aren't limited to county survey also.

HumbleAg04 said:

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Can choose does only for harvest option so buck tags aren't limited to county survey also.

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Thanks. I did not know this. If you go that route, you can still use the tags on your license for bucks?

oklaunion said:

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Plus Harvest Option is way cheaper. But your permits are dependent upon your acreage and the county survey that TPWD does each year. Grimes county must have their spotlight survey line in an area with few deer and I figure Brazos is similar. Before switching to HO, ask someone in Brazos what their permit situation is.

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The permit "estimator' indicated 8 tags, for our acreage.

Yes, MLD tags are used independent of license tags.
A license is still required, for MLD hunting.

We were on MLD programs for 29 years on our ranch. Biologist oversaw our work but we had to do 3 spotlight surveys that had to be turned in before we could get our tags…plus turn in incidental sightings reports and field data. Also had to turn in detailed harvest data on all deer killed that included weights, age, antler measurements on bucks and embryos counts on does and if they were lactating or not.
The whole point was to get deer/acre, buck/doe and fawn/doe ratios correct for the habitat and to get the potential out of the herd.
We sold the place couple of years back and was not aware that TPWD has relaxed so many requirements now.
I'm really surprised they will allow cameras for the population dynamics as it seems cameras set up at feeders will really skew the accuracy of deer/acre data.
In addition it used to be that if a ranch was under MLD the only deer harvested on the place had to be tagged with an MLD tag only. You could not allow a hunter to use his regular tag in lieu of an MLD. Is it still not that way or am I misreading some of the comments?

Sorry tamc93…did not mean that post as a reply to you. It was supposed to be a regular comment post

No worries. I will respond to a few questions from my perspective below.

The whole point was to get deer/acre, buck/doe and fawn/doe ratios correct for the habitat and to get the potential out of the herd.

• I think this is still the intent, but with lack of resources and participation the rules were relaxed.

We sold the place couple of years back and was not aware that TPWD has relaxed so many requirements now.
I'm really surprised they will allow cameras for the population dynamics as it seems cameras set up at feeders will really skew the accuracy of deer/acre data.

• I agree that it can skew numbers and I think their calculator tries to account for that. It is also helpful to know the trend and have a history with the program. Examples: I had a camera out during the count season, noted it accordingly and made my request. This year the does/fawns were basically bedded down near the feeders and skewed the reports.

In addition it used to be that if a ranch was under MLD the only deer harvested on the place had to be tagged with an MLD tag only. You could not allow a hunter to use his regular tag in lieu of an MLD. Is it still not that way or am I misreading some of the comments?

• I believe you are allowed to use your other tags as well since MLD does not impact your annual limits. In my case, I have only requested doe tags due to the county restrictions.
• Edit to Add: Additional information provided below regarding tag use for other circumstances.

Thanks man. I know it was a lot of work for us all those years. Plus we had to meet three habitat and range management requirements every year.
Like clearing cedar, supplemental feeding, etc.
However I really felt like I had an accurate handle on our deer and exotic herds and really knew what was going on within them and could really track the improvements year after year.
Makes sense that because it was so much work they did not have folks wanting to do it much.
Thank you again for responding. It has helped update me.
We don't have any programs like that up here in the Ozarks. … I miss that.
Much obliged sir.

If you have mld tags you cannot use tags off of your license.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/documents/234/pwd_1047_w7000_mldp_program_information.pdf

That's the way we had to do it on our ranch. Thanks for posting that.

Thanks for the clarification.

Fully agree with you on "knowing your herd".

It was a lot more work for the counts. The management items we were already routinely doing. We are also in the county management system program so were generally exempt from most of the harder requirements.

Happy to help with does, spikes, and culls. I haven't bought meat at the grocery store since 1997 so I am a shooter if you need some mouths taken off....

Just putting that out there. Will travel. Happy to help with chores too....have equipment. And I'm fun around a fire pit too!

It was kinda like that for us. We were on the NRCS "EQUIP" program as well on clearing cedar and cactus. Spent a ton of money on it. But sure changed the dynamics of the place and the range and habitat.
It was hard work but it was cool seeing the difference it made on all accounts.

I'm really surprised they will allow cameras for the population dynamics as it seems cameras set up at feeders will really skew the accuracy of deer/acre data.

The cameras aren't supposed to be set up at feeders per their instructions. Dedicated feed pile sites are supposed to be used. We have been doing it for over 20 years that way and don't seem to be getting skewed numbers. We never hunt the survey sites during the season.
Mississippi State did some research years ago with a high fenced ranch where they had every deer tagged within the boundaries. Using the corn piles with cams on them they photographed something like 95% of the deer over a period of a month and determined that survey method was the most accurate. We have been doing it for the last 20+ years and submitting our data. Previously MLD III and now Conservation Option. $300 per year.

Have you tried doing the spotlight counts with known acreage amounts to compare the data? Honestly asking. Not arguing. Spotlight counts were the standard for population studies when I was in WFS at school…. so perhaps that's why TPW pushed that method so much.
I also had seen an article by Agri-Life (I thought ) that said the Mississippi data was in heavy timber environments like East Texas and that it would possible be skewed in habitats like the hill country or trans Pecos regions.
Just asking as I know that at least up to five years or so ago TPWD biologist were still doing spot light counts for county population data.
From what you've experienced sounds like the cameras are a good way to gather the data.
We did a couple of helo aerial counts which were really cool but expensive.
Thanks for clarifying on the feeders. Makes sense.
Much obliged on the reply.

My understanding is that TPWD is still doing county wide spotlight counts on lines that were developed years ago. It is how they get their data for the Harvest Option applicants. I think it is a good way in certain habitat. We tried for about 4 years to do it that way on our place (started MLD in 1996) but with the heavy timber and yaupon we have and little really open areas to spotlight, our numbers were abysmal. We knew the deer were there but spotlighting was not the best way for us.
Upon beginning to use cameras, our data indicated a density of around a deer to 8 acres and a 2/1 ratio of does to bucks. No around us hunted and we bordered at the time some of the TMPA land where they prohibited hunting. The 2nd and 3rd year echoed the numbers but the biologist at the time didn't believe our data. And this was back when the only thing to use were primitive film game cams and we had to send him every ****ing picture in the mail. He finally relented and increased our permits and we slowly got the density down and ratio closer to 1/1.

I think we have been thru 6 biologists in almost 30 years. Jim Yantis was easily the best. He had turnrow meetings after the season to evaluate jawbones and antlers, helped with controlled burns and was an all around great guy.
My first game cam was a frame that held an instamatic film camera and housed a motion activated solenoid that had a plunger on it to push down on the camera's shoot button. Then graduated to the huge Moultrie film cams that were as big as a shoe box. I attended a TPWD workshop in the Hill Country that taught us how to make our own cameras and then an evening meeting in East Texas where Jim Kroll and his blonde wonderboy student taught us even more about cameras. All before digital.

That makes a lot of sense about hard to spotlight when you can't see anywhere. Cool story on your journey through all this. You have come a long way and sounds like you have your numbers where you want them.
We only had three biologist from 1991-2020 and that really helped us. One had been there forever and was an old Aggie. He was great. The last one was a lady but she was good too.
Sounds like you have a cool place and have worked hard on it.
Thanks for sharing your story and knowledge. I enjoy hearing of other folks work on their ranches.

Indeed, I was not clear on MLD tag use, and license tags. Any doe taken requires use of MLD tags, license tags not allowed.

No worries.

Been there and done that!

Would anyone happen to have extensive knowledge of the Muzzleloader season law, specifically, how it would apply to an archery only USACE wma? We know the season starts on the sixth. We know basically that it is "muzzleloaders only, no other weapon" in the particular counties. But this place is archery only. The brochure says deer hunters may only use archery to take deer when "ANY" other deer season "IS OPEN".

Seemed unclear to me, and I wasn't the only one. Hunting program manager said "Ohhhh, that's a good question..." and I ignorantly cut in and suggested I call a local warden. She liked that and said "yes, call a game warden because we don't.... we are not state law enforcement."

Ok, I called the game warden. They are so well trained. His only reply to my conundrum, that he had never thought of, was hesitantly, "We enforce the law....." So that ended with no clarity at all on my end, and probably his as well.

I've consulted several experienced public land hunters, and they casted some doubt on going for it. The way I see it, the USACE place did not think this out, but states "any open deer season, archery only". What do you think?

So I take it you are trying to hunt on US Corp of Engineers Property? If so that would be governed by UFWS as it is Federal property and not state.
Might try reaching out to USFW local office. TPWD, as I understand it, do not have enforcement responsibilities on USACE…and I sure could be wrong in that understanding.
USACE also has their own biologist in some areas. Perhaps reach out to them?

You definitely can't archery hunt during muzzleloader. The hard core archery guys piss and moan about it every year.

Know a guy that was LEO on COE property. Best way to think about enforcement on COE property- feds have enforcement of control of access to their land and write any game violations they see. State GW can write any state game or boating violations he sees on COE land but can not write any access or property specific hunting violations.

Good info sir.

I understand you saying that, based on what we read on the TPWD site, but I'm not fully convinced just yet, because I believe this could be a special case. There are two scenarios that a solid, confident COE officer/rep could lay out there (and I've yet to find one). They would go like this:

Either: According to Texas game/state law, article blah blah blah.... hunting during our special muzzleloader season in the select counties shall only be with a muzzle loading rifle. No other means allowed during this season. Period. So, son, when muzz season is active in this county, you cannot hunt this Corps land anymore til next year when bow season opens back up.

Or: According to Texas game/state law, article blah blah blah.... hunting during our special muzzleloader season in the select counties shall only be with a muzzle loading rifle. No other means allowed during this season. However, given that USACE set the rules and manages this land, we stand by what our printed rules say, and you can hunt during any open deer season, follow TPWD bag limits for this county, but the means and method is still archery only. If you step foot off of this land and onto your bordering property, you better understand that you are not covered there and TPWD would love to show you how they enforce that law. Although I'm sure you understand that since you've been pestering us about this.

Am I being ridiculous, or could you see a USACE officer saying the latter?