Howdy guys,
Looking at buying a small place (a little north of 250 acres) that is high fenced. It does have some whitetail in it but I have no idea what the density level is at this point.

The land is in north Texas probably about 30-40% open with the rest a mix cover of cedar elm, oak, cedar and honey locust.

I have been thinking about add some exotics like backbuck, red stag, fallow etc primarily for personal viewing and maybe the occasional hunt, not an exotic business.

I'm curious how well these animals would adapt to the environment, survive on the land with only supplemental feed to help with protein. Also curious about stocking rates.
I was thinking about one grazing and one browsing species.

I know lots of good Ags are really knowledgeable about this so I figured I would ask.

Land isn't bought yet, still in early stage so I can't give tons of details yet. I've driven it so I have a decent idea of terrain but don't know it super well.

Predator control needs to be your top priority. Second, I'd skip Red Stag, they eat a lot and blackbuck, fallow and axis are going to live more harmoniously without red stag mixed in. I'd say your survivability will be greater for axis and fallow than blackbuck so stock accordingly

Question is how many deer (whitetail, axis and fallow) can 250-+ acres support without heavy supplementing. I would definitely supplement some protein but only want to do a limited amount. My hope is to get in there eventually and start getting rid of a lot of the honey locust and let other vegetation grow that would maybe be better suited for bedding and cover

Depending on your stocking rate I'd budget for at least two 1 ton feeders and maybe a few corn feeders. The axis are going to be feeder hogs and the blackbuck are going to use the feeders the least. If WTD are important for you then I'd just add fallow and blackbuck as they are going to be the least competitive with deer, if they aren't or you don't have many then I'd add axis for the meat and hunting opportunities. For stocking the following should get you some decent numbers down the road: BB 1 mature male, 1 spike male (yes I know they aren't antlered species) and 4-6 females. For fallow 1 mature male (or more if you want to hunt them relatively soon), a couple of spikes and 6-8 females. For axis 2 mature males, 4-6 females. If you want WTD numbers then go with the lowest numbers above or even less on the female side. You'll need to feed and harvest with these stocking rates once they start reproducing, because you'll be at capacity for 250 ac.

ag94whoop said:

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I have been thinking about add some exotics like backbuck, red stag, fallow etc primarily for personal viewing and maybe the occasional hunt, not an exotic business.

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This won't work out. If you add blackbuck, you'll be hunting a lot. They reporduce like crazy and can be pretty aggessive to other animals (seen bucks gore bigger animals at feed pens).

A simple plan would be:

Year 1- See what's on the place, hunt what's already there and decide what you want in the futre. Go all out on predator calling.
Year 2- Bring in a phase of what you want (portion of your target whitetail goal and I would add axis).

After that you can bring in more or kill off some depending on what your goals are. Never go all in right at the start. Nothing like having a lot of animals you can't handle or keep up with feeding or shooting.

Have plenty of water, cover and spread out feed stations operating all year. Make sure high fence is good on day 1. These are just my off the top of the head things I'd plan from the get go.

Your stocking will be 100% based off of your feeding.

In my opinion, that's not enough acreage to sustain a breeding population if you have multiple species and are hunting.

I know you prefaced it with "a small place" cause this is Texags, but 250 acres is quite a nice achievement that most people I know would kill for! Congrats on being able to do that!

We lived on 100 acres with Axis, black buck (only about 4-6), fallow, spotted fallow and then a small variety of other things as the years went by. It's not uncommon to do what you're wanting to do and I say go for it. It was awesome growing up and being able to see all of that daily as a kid.

AnScAggie said:

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Depending on your stocking rate I'd budget for at least two 1 ton feeders and maybe a few corn feeders. The axis are going to be feeder hogs and the blackbuck are going to use the feeders the least. If WTD are important for you then I'd just add fallow and blackbuck as they are going to be the least competitive with deer, if they aren't or you don't have many then I'd add axis for the meat and hunting opportunities. For stocking the following should get you some decent numbers down the road: BB 1 mature male, 1 spike male (yes I know they aren't antlered species) and 4-6 females. For fallow 1 mature male (or more if you want to hunt them relatively soon), a couple of spikes and 6-8 females. For axis 2 mature males, 4-6 females. If you want WTD numbers then go with the lowest numbers above or even less on the female side. You'll need to feed and harvest with these stocking rates once they start reproducing, because you'll be at capacity for 250 ac.

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Thanks that helps a lot

TAMUallen said:

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Your stocking will be 100% based off of your feeding.

In my opinion, that's not enough acreage to sustain a breeding population if you have multiple species and are hunting.

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The plan is not to hunt a lot.
It's mainly a "viewing pleasure " with a yearly hunt or two for culling and control.
So based on what I'm hearing blackbuck may not be a great choice.

giddings_ag_06 said:

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ag94whoop said:

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I have been thinking about add some exotics like backbuck, red stag, fallow etc primarily for personal viewing and maybe the occasional hunt, not an exotic business.

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This won't work out. If you add blackbuck, you'll be hunting a lot. They reporduce like crazy and can be pretty aggessive to other animals (seen bucks gore bigger animals at feed pens).

A simple plan would be:

Year 1- See what's on the place, hunt what's already there and decide what you want in the futre. Go all out on predator calling.
Year 2- Bring in a phase of what you want (portion of your target whitetail goal and I would add axis).

After that you can bring in more or kill off some depending on what your goals are. Never go all in right at the start. Nothing like having a lot of animals you can't handle or keep up with feeding or shooting.

Have plenty of water, cover and spread out feed stations operating all year. Make sure high fence is good on day 1. These are just my off the top of the head things I'd plan from the get go.

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The primary reason I was looking at blackbuck is that they are grazers and there is a decent amount of grass. If there is a better choice for grazer I'm open to suggestions.

ag94whoop said:

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TAMUallen said:

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Your stocking will be 100% based off of your feeding.

In my opinion, that's not enough acreage to sustain a breeding population if you have multiple species and are hunting.

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The plan is not to hunt a lot.
It's mainly a "viewing pleasure " with a yearly hunt or two for culling and control.
So based on what I'm hearing blackbuck may not be a great choice.

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I'm in N.TX. Blackbuck are super fun to watch. Put them on there, and I'll be MORE than happy to keep them in check for you!

You have to really manage your range well.
Blackbucks are grass grazers so they can cohabitate well with whiteheads that eat browse and forbes.
Fallow are like goats and will eat up everything. They will eat the same foods as your whitetales.
Axis can eat and digest grass and forbes and browse.
Elk or Red Stag eat lots of grocery's as well. They will graze on grass and browse and forbes.
Blackbucks breed twice a year and can over populate quickly.
I would suggest starting with a blackbuck male and one or two does only.
I would suggest Axis over Fallow mainly for the quality of meat.
Again starting with one or two male Axis and a couple of does only.
Start small. Don't over populate. Manage your range.
If it all works for you later on add you can a breeding pair of Addax or Scimitar Horned Orx. Both have excellent meat and beautiful animals.
Again. Start small and learn to manage both your whitetail and exotics on a small scale till you learn how to manage your range.
Caution on purchasing exotics…. Lots of crooks and unethical people in the business.
There are a handful of true honest professionals in the business.
I have just one guy only I will deal with over the last 28 years.

This is my dream that I am saving up for. I'm reading every post too!

TAMUallen said:

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Your stocking will be 100% based off of your feeding.

In my opinion, that's not enough acreage to sustain a breeding population if you have multiple species and are hunting.

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"What's the carrying capacity of a feed yard?" [\my Doss, TX raised biologist mentor]

This should help, understanding that with GOOD condition native range, 1 au/10-12 acres is doing well in N Texas.

https://medina.agrilife.org/files/2011/09/animal-units_1.pdf

ag94whoop said:

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giddings_ag_06 said:

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ag94whoop said:

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I have been thinking about add some exotics like backbuck, red stag, fallow etc primarily for personal viewing and maybe the occasional hunt, not an exotic business.

---

This won't work out. If you add blackbuck, you'll be hunting a lot. They reporduce like crazy and can be pretty aggessive to other animals (seen bucks gore bigger animals at feed pens).

A simple plan would be:

Year 1- See what's on the place, hunt what's already there and decide what you want in the futre. Go all out on predator calling.
Year 2- Bring in a phase of what you want (portion of your target whitetail goal and I would add axis).

After that you can bring in more or kill off some depending on what your goals are. Never go all in right at the start. Nothing like having a lot of animals you can't handle or keep up with feeding or shooting.

Have plenty of water, cover and spread out feed stations operating all year. Make sure high fence is good on day 1. These are just my off the top of the head things I'd plan from the get go.

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The primary reason I was looking at blackbuck is that they are grazers and there is a decent amount of grass. If there is a better choice for grazer I'm open to suggestions.

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Axis eat grass just fine, but they will also compete with your WTD for forbs and browse. If you are not wanting to be hunting all the time, you need to be very careful about how many different species you put in the property and how much you want to have to feed them. Not to start a high fence argument, but because they are high fenced, you are taking responsibility for adequately ensuring their needs are met. If you are taking out predators as others have suggested (I wouldn't), you are leaving hunting, old age, or starvation as the main ways you are going to reduce the herd numbers.

If you assume you have 20 WTD (probably low, but it makes a nice round number) with a balanced M/F ratio, and a 60% successful fawn crop each year (probably low too and doesn't account for twins), that is 6 deer a year that will be added to the herd. Assuming you hunt your bucks more heavily than your does (I wouldn't), then your M/F ratio will become higher over time and you will have more deer to hunt each year to keep the numbers stable. Assuming you lose three deer to age each year, that is 3 WTD minimum you will need to hunt to keep the numbers stable. Then do the same math for each additional species you bring onto the place. You start getting into double digit numbers you will need to lose/hunt each year in order to stay stable, not to mention supplemental feeding to keep them from ravaging the habitat if you let the numbers get away from you.

With a high fence, if you don't feed or there get to be too many, they can't just leave and go somewhere else to get better habitat or groceries. I really suggest that you live on the place for a few years and do some detailed deer census work to make sure you know what you actually have on the place. Then you will be in a position to better know what additional animals the place might be able to carry and can decide how much extra work you really want to do to take care of them. Do also keep in mind that any work you do to care for exotics can't be counted towards a wildlife management plan if you are going to do the wildlife habitat tax valuation for tax purposes.

I will respectfully add that we have had blacbucks for just at 28 years and I never have witnessed aggressive behavior by them at feeders with other animals. They may dip their heads at other animals but they rarely aggressively attack…. IMHO. Blackbuck males are only aggressive to other blackbuck males that enter their territory. The mature males will have " harems" and have very established territory's.
Bachelor males will challenge them for the harems and they fight but rarely to death. One will be dominant and the other will submit and walk away to go back to the bachelor herd or get his own harem established in another part of the pasture.
Fallow are one of the most aggressive species of the cervidae family and two mature males will sometimes fight till one is so exhausted or injured they will go off and die. I have literally had to shoot at two males fighting to get them to stop.
That is why it is so hard to raise truly large mature Fallow males in an open range condition. Two mature males will fight hard. Oftentimes breaking an antler completely off and sometimes breaking it below the pedicle and ruining the animal from ever having nice antlers again.

Exotics are considered alternative livestock in Texas and most counties will count them for a standard livestock Ag exemption.

Gunny456 said:

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Exotics are considered alternative livestock in Texas and most counties will count them for a standard livestock Ag exemption.

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Yeah, but to do that, you have to prove that it is an ag operation, not just for hobby or show, which means meeting minimum numbers of animal units, selling or hunting for sale, etc. and showing that doing so is the "primary use" of the property. Seemed the opposite of what OP was saying about not wanting to sell hunts and just wanting to enjoy watching them mostly. Depending on the county appraiser, some frown upon managing for WTD as the target species for wildlife valuation because they are overpopulating already in some areas. Might be less of an issue with the high fence, but will depend on the appraiser.

Yes it will depend on the county appraiser. If he has other high fence ranches around him that have exotics it is usually fairly easy for the appraiser to approve it.

If you hired me to manage your ranch tomorrow the first thing I would do is to determine a very accurate account of your whitetail population. In this you need to determine and identify your buck/ doe ratio and your number of deer per age class the best you can … and then a total number of deer to truly determine your deer/acre count.
You need to accurately do this before adding a single exotic specie.
You can get lots of help by contacting your local TPWD biologist to help you set up game counts and examining your current range conditions…water sources, etc.
TPWD will not help you manage exotics. They would rather you not have any.
You have to aggressively manage a 250 acre high fence ranch. You must keep your populations at the carrying capacity of your range. You can quickly over graze a place causing years of damage.
Without truly knowing your current WT population and stocking some numbers of exotics suggested on 250 acres is a recipe for a lot of disappointment and damage to your range.
In summary. Start by accurately detailing your population density and dynamics of your existing WT herd.
Get assistance from a good TPWD biologist that knows your area and let him help you determine your WT population and assess your current range conditions.
Perhaps having the biologist help you with a Wildlife Management Plan with MLD's.
Alternatively to using a TPWD biologist you might consider hiring a knowledgeable private wildlife biologist instead.
If your WT population and range conditions are conducive to adding a few head of exotics start with a couple of species (suggest BB and Axis) but start with 2-3 BB and 2-3 Axis. Start small. Learn. See how your range does. You can always add more…. But you can play heck on your range if they get out of hand…. Not only the exotics but the WT's too!

I'll add that if you want to sedate and sell your excess exotics for cheap, I'll take them and give them a low fence home in west texas in a couple years! Mogulranch gmail

Can highly suggest finding you a copy of " Exotics on the Range" by Elizabeth Mungall. By Texas A&M University Press. Great book and probably the most definitive work on Exotics in Texas.
Out of print but can be found.

Gunny456 said:

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Can highly suggest finding you a copy of " Exotics on the Range" by Elizabeth Mungall. By Texas A&M University Press. Great book and probably the most definitive work on Exotics in Texas.
Out of print but can be found.

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Pre-order for the next book is available

https://www.tamupress.com/book/9781648432064/exotic-animal-field-guide/

Once again, I don't have it yet. Just hoping to be able to get it. As with many deals, it is a process.

The plan is to do census with a variety of cellular game cams for a while to get a feel for how many WT we end would have. The reason I am asking questions is that I want to have a plan of action when it's actually time to act. Better to be prepared and have a clear plan.

And also to clarify, I am not saying we won't hunt or sell/gift a few hunts a year. The point is I am not looking to make an exotic operation. Hunting would be 100-% focused on management. I have a LOT of friends and family that hunt. I might hunt a little bit more likely to take does for meat than bucks for a trophy. I would sell those hunts or let friends and family get one when needed.

I am working a 1031 and have some experience with past ranch and doing wildlife exemption and WL management.
I like the idea of working with a WL biologist on the current WT count and ratios. I was already planning on talking tk NRCS and TDPW to evaluate the land for food sources and protein anyway. This reinforces that idea. Much appreciated

The Exotic Wildlife Association in Kerrville has a lot of books and publications on Exotic specie biology and management. I have most of them.
I will try and send a list of them to you tomorrow.
Hope you end up with the place. You will greatly enjoy managing it and seeing the results as you improve it.

ag94whoop said:

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Once again, I don't have it yet. Just hoping to be able to get it. As with many deals, it is a process.

The plan is to do census with a variety of cellular game cams for a while to get a feel for how many WT we end would have. The reason I am asking questions is that I want to have a plan of action when it's actually time to act. Better to be prepared and have a clear plan.

And also to clarify, I am not saying we won't hunt or sell/gift a few hunts a year. The point is I am not looking to make an exotic operation. Hunting would be 100-% focused on management. I have a LOT of friends and family that hunt. I might hunt a little bit more likely to take does for meat than bucks for a trophy. I would sell those hunts or let friends and family get one when needed.

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I'd buy a drone for about a thousand or two and do a survey. Used to be that you had to hire a helicopter to come in

TAMUallen said:

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ag94whoop said:

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Once again, I don't have it yet. Just hoping to be able to get it. As with many deals, it is a process.

The plan is to do census with a variety of cellular game cams for a while to get a feel for how many WT we end would have. The reason I am asking questions is that I want to have a plan of action when it's actually time to act. Better to be prepared and have a clear plan.

And also to clarify, I am not saying we won't hunt or sell/gift a few hunts a year. The point is I am not looking to make an exotic operation. Hunting would be 100-% focused on management. I have a LOT of friends and family that hunt. I might hunt a little bit more likely to take does for meat than bucks for a trophy. I would sell those hunts or let friends and family get one when needed.

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I'd buy a drone for about a thousand or two and do a survey. Used to be that you had to hire a helicopter to come in

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I have a pretty good drone already

That'll work!

Hope you get the property and can make everything work

How well do blackbuck handle the inevitable North Texas cold snaps?

Blackbucks can tolerate cold temps unless it stays very cold (when highs don't get above upper 20's) for multiple days. The issues are they lay down and don't feed and body temp drops due to lack of metabolism.
Landowners can prevent this by feeding high energy feeds like alfalfa hay, alfalfa cubes, alfalfa pellets, horse and mule sweet feed etc. BEFORE and during the event. The key is to drive your pastures a few times a day in atv's UTV's, your truck, etc. and try to keep them up and moving and putting the feed listed above out and readily available.
This applies to the other African/India antelope species like Scimitar, Gemsbock, Addax, Kudu etc as well.
Ranchers who followed procedures like above did not lose many animals, or none at all during the big freeze.
The problem was with absentee owners or landowners just ignorant on how to take care of the animals properly.

Really great information Gunny!!!

Axis and blackbuck each have their own issues. Axis will compete heavily with whitetail. They tend to prefer what a whitetail does early on, but are really good at switching to a more grass heavy diet if the need calls for it. Blackbuck are rabbits when it comes to multiplying. The biggest mistake folks make is not shooting does, and the numbers and competition can get out of hand in a hurry.

When determining your deer/acre carrying capacity you treat all cervidae the same as they all initially prefer the same groceries. So if you want Axis, Fallow, Sika on your place you basically count them as another WT in population number.
As I stated in another post above, Blackbucks breed twice a year. That's why on the 250 acres you start with a breeding pair and work from there to keep your numbers in check.

Hopefully you procure, and enjoy, the 250-ish acres, but adding exotics to a place with 150-175 acres of woods seems more like livestock management, than anything "natural".
Deer and the exotics would become more of a dependent pet, than being wildlife, in my opinion (and experience where deer become very comfortable with human presence).