I've got a bunch of posts to make, just been busy at work and playing hard too.

My buddy and I recently purchased a poling skiff. We are fly guys but we occasionally have traditional spin fishers on the boat. This weekend we had my 12 year old on board and I need to upgrade my artificial light tackle shallow water lure selection for him.

We often pole flats and sight cast to reds in 6 inches to 12 inches of water. I tried an 1/8 oz owner beast belly weight weedless setup for him this week with super slick artificials. The 1/8 oz was too heavy, bait would fall down into the grass too quick and not stay up in the water column.

My favorite top water for our fishery is Super Spook Jr, in bone, so he spent the rest of the day throwing that and got a great topwater blowup but missed the hook set.

So, I need reccs for other super-skinny top-waters that are not likely to grass up, and also weedless jig head and bait combinations. I need details on hook size, weedless/traditional jig head, etc.

I've had good luck with 1/8 oz jig heads with the corkscrew attachment for the artificials in 2-4 feet of water, but when super skinny, they just grass up and hit bottom too soon.

Here are some ideas I've picked up, tell me yes/no or send me your favorites for skinny artificials. An added bonus would be a chuck and retrieve without having to learn how to walk the dog or special actions for beginners on the topwaters in particular.

Plastics:
DOA Fiji chicks paddle tail - what size jighead for these? Weedless/bellyweight?
DOA texas roach
DOA paddle tail small one
Deadly Dudley - Electric Chicken
Deadly Dudley - Rat Tail - Shrimp - clear w glitter
Scented PaddlerZ - Redfish Toad - 4 inch - Kelly Parks

Corky's - Paul brown, but again, too skinny to be very effective

Top Water:
Broke back cordell Redfin or rebel or repala w lip. Gold and black.
DOA baitbuster. Silver glitter. Or clear w holographic finish
Rattletrap silver


Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Zoom Fluke various sizes texas rigged like bass fishing

Redfish magic spinners can work depending on depth and grass . Cast and reel fast, spinner arm can keep it weedless

I've also had luck with gulp shrimp weightless or the DOAs you mentioned

Use the weedless belly hook thingy on a soft plastic of your choice with no weight at all.

Also, Johnson 1/4 oz. Silver Minnow in gold.

I haven't used them but I've seen a buddy have luck with Buggs. They fish about as close to fly fishing as I've seen on conventional tackle.

https://www.buggsfishing.com/redfish/

https://www.buggsfishing.com/product/flats-bugg/

Had a problem reaching some very shallow Reds in some LA marsh, and after everything else tried, came up with this. Used I believe Stanley Baby Ribbit Frogs. These are not the hollow body frogs, and they do not come rigged. Used the a screw lock hook. The weight of the frog itself was more than enough, no belly weight hook needed. They stay on the surface great, weedless as can be, and were very effective over there. Not sure about TX flat reds, but they do work. Just an idea and something to try if all of the traditional stuff fails.

SanAntoneAg said:

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Use the weedless belly hook thingy on a soft plastic of your choice with no weight at all.

Also, Johnson 1/4 oz. Silver Minnow in gold.

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Second the silver minnow in gold.

Weedless. Cuts through the wind and can cast with pinpoint accuracy over long distances.

The specks were on fire this year on the Northshore of Pontchartrain in October into November. Probably the extra salty water during the drought. I was just tossing SpeckDrum plastics on deathgrip jigheads, 1/4 to 1/2 oz depending on flow. They liked the pink or coconut chrome. Specks, reds, channel cats, bass -- it was on. I'm getting ready to switch over to sac-a-lait soon.

Wake baits, used to be by Mann's, but I think they discontinued the line. Academy house brand has some that are fine. You can cast them a mile and then just crank them back to you. Vary speeds and occasionally pause the retrieval until you figure out what they want.

Mann's baby -1 is great for reds. Reel it slower if you need it to run shallower.

Gulp anything Texas rigged with a weedless wide gap hook. You will miss a few sets with the weedless rig, but you won't be picking salad out every cast. Use lighter bullet weights if you have to. I don't usually go lighter than 3/16.

Redfish magic.

Gulp under the popping cork will keep you off the bottom, but maybe not a great option in super skinny water.

I'm typically a Down South lure guy, but when I need to size down (for shallow water for instance) I go with a mirrolure lil john. I find I can throw it much farther than the Down South Burner Shad and it has great action. I've sight casted a bunch of reds on it this year polling the back lakes and just using a trolling motor down main bay shorelines. They're small and aero/hydro dynamic and hit the water softer and tend not to spook fish in shallow water.

For jig heads, I almost always use a 1/16 ounce jig head unless I'm in deep water (+4 feet) or fighting high winds. 2/0 for lil johns, 3/0 for full size plastics. I the like the TX Custom Lure jig heads. They're not weedless, but the eye sunk in the lead helps to reduce some grass snag. If the grass is really bad I use the 1/16 owner weedless. Any weedless will reduce your hook-up ratio to some degree so I only use it when i really have to.

Johnson weedless spoon is a good idea for your kid but prob not for sight casting as it will be harder to keep in the strike zone for long.

The weedless frog is another good idea I've been wanting to try. Completely weedless. I've seen guys on the internet have luck with them.

My go to top water as of late has been the 4" Rapala Skitter V. I love the action and have caught many fish on it. If grass is a real problem you might put on in-line single hooks on whatever top water you're throwing.

32' red sight casted in sept.

TroutSupport GrassWalker is my go to in shallow grassy conditions. You can walk it like a top water or twitch it like a jerk bait. Bone Diamond is typically my go to color. Be sure to watch the YouTube video on how to rig it.

Thanks for the input - what colors do you like best on the Rapala Skitter V?

What color mirror lure lil John do you like for reds on the Texas coast?

Check out Trout Support Grasswalker. Great for skinny water and rigged weedless is awesome.

I'm a full time guide.

Skitter walk in redfish or clear. Change the hooks to singles if you need to.

Troutsupport Grasswalker rigged weightless and skin hook the point. This lure is very dense and maintains lots of feel and casting distance even when weightless.

Bagby single hook spoon in black.

Lil John's
- Here's what's in my bag right now: Gold, Gold/Red Glitter, Molting, Kitchen Sink, Pink Silver, Opening Night.


Skitter V
- my go to is black/chrome or gold/chrome. I always prefer natural colors unless water clarity forces me away from it.
- Others: bone, bone chartreuse, glass ghost, gold/orange (for dirty water), white.

Here's one I retired recently:

4" gulp curl tail mullet on DOA short shank 1/16 ounce jig head. Its dense enough to still cast well from a light rod. Light enough to wake it back close to the surface with the tail working while keeping it out of the grass.

D.O.A. Short-Shank Jigheads | Bass Pro Shops

That's awesome, those look as close to flies as I've ever seen for traditional lures. Wonder how they cast?

dr_boogs said:

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That's awesome, those look as close to flies as I've ever seen for traditional lures. Wonder how they cast?

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They are more dense than they appear. They cast really well. They come in various weights cast as you would expect. Not terribly different from casting a regular jig head with a small soft plastic on there. The blue crab is the one that most people talk about. You can find them at FTU, but the blue crab is sold out a lot.

Mu ultimate choice is a 1/8 oz Johnson silver minnow with a small ball bearing swivel tied to 20 lb flouro shock leader with a loop knot then allbright knot to your mainline. You will need a light action (whippy) rod and a good baitcaster to get the necessary distance, but I don't think you can find anything better for sightcasting reds on the flats. The 1/8 oz spoon is less intrusive and spooks fewer fish and it also flutters down slower into potholes and stays out of the grass better.
My favorite topwater for the flats in an Owner Zip-N-Ziggy in halloween. It sits more vertically in the water when stopped than most topwaters which leads to easier hooksets. It has a bit smaller profile and is easy to walk with minimal effort. They can be hard to locate and the thin wire hooks are very sharp, but a red can bend them so replacement 3x hooks are good to have on hand.
For soft plastics when it gets real grassy, rig your bait weedless with Owner offset shank hooks. Use weightless with a denser bait like the Trout Support, or get the weighted twistlock ones if you are using a light bait like a Zoom fluke.

no input on plastics.

fellow fly guy who has a rod, gas money and beer money.

:-)

Centerpole90 said:

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I haven't used them but I've seen a buddy have luck with Buggs. They fish about as close to fly fishing as I've seen on conventional tackle.

https://www.buggsfishing.com/redfish/

https://www.buggsfishing.com/product/flats-bugg/

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Great minds think alike. These are what I use for the non-fly folks on my skiff when on shallow flats a lot of the time.

Other than the blue crab suggested above, which ones do you like, looks like there are a few varieties in several patterns each. Thanks TC!

What skiff did y'all get?

Zman diesel minoow - pinfish color rigged weedless. Add the chicken chit scent to the slot. These are super durable, you can fish all day with them. Keep them in the original bag, if you mix with other soft plastics they will dissolve the others.

dr_boogs said:

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Other than the blue crab suggested above, which ones do you like, looks like there are a few varieties in several patterns each. Thanks TC!

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I've only used the Beastie Bug in olive or white. Seems to work well.

Centerpole90 said:

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What skiff did y'all get?

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Yeah that's gonna need its own thread but I need time to compose the post.

Roger that thanks.

Don't forget Rule 1.

Move on down to 1/16th oz jig head.

You're on the right track. Paddle tails, gulps. Try a twitch bait and some smaller top waters.

dr_boogs said:

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Centerpole90 said:

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What skiff did y'all get?

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Yeah that's gonna need its own thread but I need time to compose the post.

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Why? Just the make and model will work. lol Like 3-4 words.

When fishing that skinny, I'm throwing the following:

1. Grasswalker from Troutsupport in chicken on a chain or bone. Rigged weedless with no weight. It will chunk a mile and you can dart it or jerk it as needed. This will drift over grass and not get hung up if the hook shank and eye are properly hidden. Do not set the hook when you feel the bite. Wait until they run with it and rip their lips.
2. Floating corky fatboy - this one can be worked like a topwater if need be. Can also replace with single hooks. You need the ones with gill lines painted on them, to know it is a floater.
3. Texas Customs Double D in Plum Nasty or Crown Royal. Sometimes I throw Gringo also. You have to reel this fast to get it to sink. It suspends super slow and floats up really slow. Half my winter bites are after about 4 cranks and then a 3-10 second pause, wherein the rod is almost jerked from your hand. This can also just be slow cranked back endlessly.
4. Super spook jr in Silver Mullet color. (replace with single hooks) I fish this year round.
5. One knocker spook in clown - (gold/pink) Sometimes you need a bit more flash and size.
6. Weedless spoon also works in 1/4 oz. Sometimes, the reds like copper ones.
7. My buddy fishes a rat tail gulp bait on a weedless hook with no weight. Reds seem to like it, but I can't stand the smelly crap, so I won't get near it.
8. 1/16oz screwlock jighead with a paddle tail, but you have to work it fast and you really need to keep your rod tip up to make it dust the top of the grass.

Waterloo Outfitters has most all of this online. I think Roys tackle in Corpus does also. Not sure where you are located or what bay system fished? To me, some bay systems require different colors, but that may just be my confidence baits in those areas.

Truth be told, I am rarely fishing in water less than 1 foot deep in the winter. My odds improve on trout and reds the deeper I get, at least in the mid-coast bays I fish. On really sunny days, we can fish shallower, but for the most part, if it is cold, we are fishing a but deeper.

The guys that were talking about 1/2 oz and 1/4 oz jigheads above didn't read what you were asking for.

TRIDENT said:

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Mu ultimate choice is a 1/8 oz Johnson silver minnow with a small ball bearing swivel tied to 20 lb flouro shock leader with a loop knot then allbright knot to your mainline. You will need a light action (whippy) rod and a good baitcaster to get the necessary distance, but I don't think you can find anything better for sightcasting reds on the flats. The 1/8 oz spoon is less intrusive and spooks fewer fish and it also flutters down slower into potholes and stays out of the grass better.

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My dad, and his decades old fishing/coaching buddies, and I through them, thankfully got to fish with the best, bar none, backwater fisherman I ever knew. Unbelievable mathematician, and even better fisherman. Photographic memory type of guy and mentally running calculations of weather, tide, daylight conditions, time of year, etc. Approached fishing as a science, fueled with desire and an uncanny sense coupled with what we all need, luck.

We all used his fishcamp as a base for many, many years. One year, he decided to take pics of all of the limits of reds (this was on the breach of when it went from 5 fo 3) He started putting pics in notebook binder page pick holders that held six pics/page. He quit after two years because he filled an entire wall of his cabin and it became pointless. He was THAT good. Attached to almost every sleeve of pics was a 1/8 oz "weedless" Johnsons gold spoon with the hook broken off. Most of which variations have no longer been "available" sense he fished them and were 'part of the pic". (you'd now have to modify them). He and his buddies caught the majority of them on that lure.


He just flat out caught fish. Reds, trout, etc. At one time, part of Pringle Lake used to be name after him in aerial photos. He'd leave the dock in pre-dawn with no lights because guides would follow him if he was lit to the general area he'd fish in.

I asked him over a few beers while we were frying fish one night, what his favorite lure was. Like a mathematician, he answered....

Well, I catch more fish with plastics, so that's good, but I like topwaters because they are fun.

"I asked, your FAVORITE"

"Well, if I had to fish to eat, I would fish a 1/8 oz weedless gold spoon. Period"

And there you have it.

Now, if I told you how he tied it, and how I still do, most would have indigestion as it flies in all the current "spirits that know" advice. But it works.

God bless you Norman.

Thanks for the post Sarge - have a few weedless spoons in the box and we fished it this weekend some.

Appreciate your post, great insight. Lot of great info on the thread so far but we legitimately pole 8-12 inches a lot and so as you said, the 1/4 and 1/8 oz baits are a no go on the grass flats in that setting. I'm gonna order some lures for him this weekend for a Christmas present.

Fish a super fluke or a paddle tail on a hook like this. It will get through the grass really well. It's not a saltwater hook so it will rust on you. Just buy a new pack for each trip. Works well for flounder too.