Curious if his body condition is due to age or other reasons. Other bucks looked a lot healthier.
He is a ten with 1 kicker off a G2
He is a ten with 1 kicker off a G2
Thoughts on this buck?
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47 Replies |
Last: 1 yr ago by INIGO MONTOYA
Something is off with that deer. Body is too lean and his eyes are bulging. I can't even properly age him.
Three letters come to mind when I see that deer.
This is DeWitt Co.
Here are a couple pictures of other bucks at a different stand.
Here are a couple pictures of other bucks at a different stand.
Same here.
Looking at the whole animal he doesn't look over the hill. Maybe just got injured or sick and may recover?
Rack looks like a very healthy 3.5 year old deer. Neck, brisket, shoulders, and swayback look mature.
From there back he looks like way post-mature or a baby.
Looks like a catfish with all that mass up front and nothing behind.
Looking at the whole animal he doesn't look over the hill. Maybe just got injured or sick and may recover?
Rack looks like a very healthy 3.5 year old deer. Neck, brisket, shoulders, and swayback look mature.
From there back he looks like way post-mature or a baby.
Looks like a catfish with all that mass up front and nothing behind.
This is a very old buck. Shoot it.
My thought too, would not feel bad to kill it so healthier deer can thrive
he probably doesn't have any teeth he is so old.
I concur. Looks like a very old buck
Agree with the "tough to age" comments. Wrinkles on the face and what appears to be pretty extensive bedding wear on his knees (might check to see if you have any closer shots on a trail cam) would push me in the shooter camp.
You might be wrong, but I don't think you will be, and it's not the end of the world either
You might be wrong, but I don't think you will be, and it's not the end of the world either
Appreciate all the responses.
Next, what does he score?
Next, what does he score?
I'm seeing 132-136 without that kicker. Something like that. Beams look real long in some pics and not so long in others, so I wouldn't be surprised if the actual number was higher.AgsMnn said:
Appreciate all the responses.
Next, what does he score?
Thats what a 9 year old looks like.
Post mature deer
Low to mid 140s. Just not real wide, which means you aren't going to get very good main beam length.
Low to mid 140s. Just not real wide, which means you aren't going to get very good main beam length.
As others have said, this is a very old buck. His molars are worn smooth or even missing and he cannot chew his food. The body appearance is from lack of nutrition. Looking at his rack now he was probably really nice 3 or 4 years ago.
So three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar.................You can't convince me that's a coincidence.
He's made it this far, might as well let him live his life out … doesn't look very healthy to eat anyway
Newoldarmy said:
Rack looks like a very healthy 3.5 year old deer. Neck, brisket, shoulders, and swayback look mature.
Never look at the rack when aging a deer.
This deer is 6.5 or older.
IMHO
I haven't seen many pics of deer with the acronym disease…does bulging eyes and skinny body match the end stage symptoms or is it all just behavioral symptoms that would give it away?
Any supplemental feed?
I'd lean toward injured/sick, but second would be well past prime.
I'd lean toward injured/sick, but second would be well past prime.
In the 140 range +/-5"
4 1/2 but his condition is problematic
Tough call on how to proceed
Tough call on how to proceed
Surprising that folks are missing on what is clearly a very old buck.
Then again, maybe they've never seen one? The online aging charts either leave out 6.5+ year old bucks or do a poor job. They don't show the declining buck that has lost muscle mass to the point it looks somewhat thin like a younger buck to the uninitiated.
If you have doubts in the field as to if a buck is young or old, one thing that helps is to watch its movements. Older bucks are very often stiff legged, don't chase does & go out of their way to avoid younger more aggressive bucks. They'll show ribs & hip bones, sag everywhere and have more gray around the face.
While I agree they've had a nice long life, a bullet is a better way to go than being pulled down and eaten by coyotes or dying of starvation/disease.
Then again, maybe they've never seen one? The online aging charts either leave out 6.5+ year old bucks or do a poor job. They don't show the declining buck that has lost muscle mass to the point it looks somewhat thin like a younger buck to the uninitiated.
If you have doubts in the field as to if a buck is young or old, one thing that helps is to watch its movements. Older bucks are very often stiff legged, don't chase does & go out of their way to avoid younger more aggressive bucks. They'll show ribs & hip bones, sag everywhere and have more gray around the face.
While I agree they've had a nice long life, a bullet is a better way to go than being pulled down and eaten by coyotes or dying of starvation/disease.
I see a 4yo buck with health issues. Either way, Id have no desire to eat it and Im not getting it mounted so Id let him go in hopes he recovers for next year.
It's obviously CWD, call TPWD we can now diagnose them on the hoof!Apache said:
Surprising that folks are missing on what is clearly a very old buck.
Then again, maybe they've never seen one?
It's an old deer - turns out the "neighbors" don't shoot them all!
Quote:
I see a 4yo buck with health issues.
What about that buck makes you think that he is 4?
What makes you think he has health issues?
I think old and beat down. Were y'all feeding over the summer? May not have teeth to adequately eat.
I've seen a 4.5 year old buck that got gored look a lot like that. I've also watched a more mature buck that we called MJ whose tongue hung out. Clearly injured. He could eat protein - but once that got shut off - his body conditioned worsened from sept to the end of season and then would bounce back. Mature deer that couldn't eat well - he looked a bit like that.. I've seen 8.5-10.5 year old deer that look rough - but not that rough in October… but again, those deer had access to protein. I think the supplemental feed question is a big one. I think the face looks like a younger buck but the photos are from pretty far away.
No protein being fed.
He did not chase or sniff any doe like the other bucks.
He did not chase or sniff any doe like the other bucks.
What makes you certain he's older than 4 and healthy?Apache said:Quote:
I see a 4yo buck with health issues.
What about that buck makes you think that he is 4?
What makes you think he has health issues?
Not a healthy deer. Age is very deceiving.
Why the face? Didn't mean to offend you, I'm curious.Quote:
What makes you certain he's older than 4 and healthy?
For the record I think this buck is most likely older than 7-1/2 because of the following reasons:
Humped shoulder
Sagging back
Skinny body with ribs & hips showing
More gray on the face & top of head
Very little tarsal staining
OP said he moved slow, didn't run does or confront other bucks
He's not in the peak of health because he probably can't eat well.
Now. Explain what about that deer makes you think he's 4-1/2? Genuinely interested if I'm missing something.
That buck is old AF.
Look at the shape of his head, the amount of white around his eyes and nose, old staining on his tarsals and between the antlers. He's just old and doesn't have the physical capabilities anymore. I bet 2 years ago he was a stud.
Look at the shape of his head, the amount of white around his eyes and nose, old staining on his tarsals and between the antlers. He's just old and doesn't have the physical capabilities anymore. I bet 2 years ago he was a stud.
100% thisApache said:Why the face? Didn't mean to offend you, I'm curious.Quote:
What makes you certain he's older than 4 and healthy?
For the record I think this buck is most likely older than 7-1/2 because of the following reasons:
Humped shoulder
Sagging back
Skinny body with ribs & hips showing
More gray on the face & top of head
Very little tarsal staining
OP said he moved slow, didn't run does or confront other bucks
He's not in the peak of health because he probably can't eat well.
Now. Explain what about that deer makes you think he's 4-1/2? Genuinely interested if I'm missing something.
if this thread does anything, it just shows how hard it actually is for the "normal Joe" to age a buck.. all these hunters who have leases that live in the city (probably most/alot of us on the board) that aren't really around deer that much like to talk a big game about how to age and shoot deer, but in reality its pretty hard to look across the field and tell the difference between some deer, especially if its sun up or sun down and a big racked deer comes out and you can barely see him but are ready to pull the trigger because its your big chance.. you shoot him and then some ******* on the lease is jealous you shot the big one and starts pulling the "this deer should not have been shot BS because he wasnt ready".... everyone is a deer expert at that point.. LMAO
I was on a lease when I was younger and every ******* on that lease who lived in the city thought they knew how to age a deer... and I grew up on a 4000 acre ranch with deer everywhere and its just not that easy, with the exception of a few people that really know what they are talking about. I think if they are really young or really old most people can get that right, but when they are between say 2-6 years old, most people are just guessing unless hes on the ground and you look at the teerth
anyway, just kind of pointing out the obvious...
I was on a lease when I was younger and every ******* on that lease who lived in the city thought they knew how to age a deer... and I grew up on a 4000 acre ranch with deer everywhere and its just not that easy, with the exception of a few people that really know what they are talking about. I think if they are really young or really old most people can get that right, but when they are between say 2-6 years old, most people are just guessing unless hes on the ground and you look at the teerth
anyway, just kind of pointing out the obvious...
With regards to the definitive list of all the reasons that's a 7.5 year old buck -
Humped shoulder - actually the skeletal structure of a deer is such that the shoulders are higher than the spine. This sticks out cause he's so skinny.
Sagging back - usually the sag is in the middle of the back. What looks like a sag is really just the shoulder protrusion from being skinny. I also think they lose some sag when they are so skinny cause they lose the potbelly.
Skinny - old or sick. Could be either reason
Grey - different deer have different coloring. You say grey - but I look at pic three and so nope.
Tarsal staining - sick deer / old deer - I would guess an old deer would be trying to rut more than a sick deer.
Doesn't move well - sick deer / old deer - no difference.
Antlers - usually really old deer start losing beam length and length in their outer points. I see no evidence of that in his rack. We are in the time period where that deer ought to be looking his best. The fact that he looks so poor now - I think he would have looked just as poor in March-June and wouldn't have grown those antlers.
I'm with fullback. (Except that you have a better age if you track them year over year) I'm just playing devils advocate and trying to counter all this certainty as to why this is an old buck. I don't see it and would guess injury - but certainly don't rule it out. I look at thousands and thousands of photos of deer every year and keep track of bucks year over year on 5,000 acres. I've seen a injured/sick 4.5 year old buck and all these characteristics you describe as defining an old deer were there…except the grey face - which I think is debatable on this buck.
Humped shoulder - actually the skeletal structure of a deer is such that the shoulders are higher than the spine. This sticks out cause he's so skinny.
Sagging back - usually the sag is in the middle of the back. What looks like a sag is really just the shoulder protrusion from being skinny. I also think they lose some sag when they are so skinny cause they lose the potbelly.
Skinny - old or sick. Could be either reason
Grey - different deer have different coloring. You say grey - but I look at pic three and so nope.
Tarsal staining - sick deer / old deer - I would guess an old deer would be trying to rut more than a sick deer.
Doesn't move well - sick deer / old deer - no difference.
Antlers - usually really old deer start losing beam length and length in their outer points. I see no evidence of that in his rack. We are in the time period where that deer ought to be looking his best. The fact that he looks so poor now - I think he would have looked just as poor in March-June and wouldn't have grown those antlers.
I'm with fullback. (Except that you have a better age if you track them year over year) I'm just playing devils advocate and trying to counter all this certainty as to why this is an old buck. I don't see it and would guess injury - but certainly don't rule it out. I look at thousands and thousands of photos of deer every year and keep track of bucks year over year on 5,000 acres. I've seen a injured/sick 4.5 year old buck and all these characteristics you describe as defining an old deer were there…except the grey face - which I think is debatable on this buck.
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