I'm pretty sure I have seen this deer at least the previous two years. It appears his antlers are on the decline. Thanks.

This is last year. I think same deer.

Both shooters.

6+
time to make sausage

Old. You might find that one of those has barely any teeth left.

When being average has it benefits.

He thick!

It is a shame that WT only live 6ish years naturally.

Ragoo said:

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It is a shame that WT only live 6ish years naturally.

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That may be the statistical mean, but that's the same thing as looking at average life expectancy in the middle ages. Some mature bucks go off and die, sure, but the idea that your average 6 year old buck is going to keel over and die is not accurate. Physically, they are in their prime.

Back out fawn mortality and that number will shoot way up.

Thanks for the responses.
Do y'all think the pics are the same buck?

FallsonbrazosAg91 said:

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Thanks for the responses.
Do y'all think the pics are the same buck?

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Hard to tell, has similar G1 characteristics. If those are unique for your area, I'd say it's the same deer

MrWonderful said:

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Ragoo said:

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It is a shame that WT only live 6ish years naturally.

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That may be the statistical mean, but that's the same thing as looking at average life expectancy in the middle ages. Some mature bucks go off and die, sure, but the idea that your average 6 year old buck is going to keel over and die is not accurate. Physically, they are in their prime.

Back out fawn mortality and that number will shoot way up.

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I'd be curious to know if that's actually the case. At least not on ranches that aren't completely high fenced. I was fortunate enough to hunt a nice ranch in South Texas for 2 decades and I can only remember a handful of bucks over 6. I do remember one old battle axe that was determined to be 8 or 9, but was essentially a zombie when killed and way past his prime. It's not scientific, but it seemed like 95%+ of the bucks seen, killed, or photographed were less than 7.

Granted that was before protein became as common as it us now, but they were an early adopter (of normal ish ranches anyway) of managing ratios and only killing mature bucks. They documented all kinds of things from each buck killed (teeth, weight, score, etc). Just too many predators that can take advantage of rut worn bucks or bad droughts or floods. If they don't kill each other before that.

MrWonderful said:

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Ragoo said:

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It is a shame that WT only live 6ish years naturally.

---

That may be the statistical mean, but that's the same thing as looking at average life expectancy in the middle ages. Some mature bucks go off and die, sure, but the idea that your average 6 year old buck is going to keel over and die is not accurate. Physically, they are in their prime.

Back out fawn mortality and that number will shoot way up.

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I mean, okay. Pretty sure the average deer you see will always be in the 3-5 year range with only a few stretching beyond that. Including does.

But my point is that as outdoors people it is a shame that we only get to see individuals within a deer herd for a short fleeting moment in time.

Unlike dogs, or live stock. Maybe I am being weird but part of the beauty in hunting, at least those that sit and really study the herd not that I do spend much time in the field, is the relationship with the animals. Right? I mean most here post game cam pics beginning in the summer, cross referenced back to years past. But the cruel nature is those 1-2 years may be all you get with those specific individuals.

I would say the buck in the first pic is in his absolute prime, fat & healthy. 5.5-6.5

Really old, post mature bucks have thinner bodies that look more like 2-1/2 year olds.

This fellas antlers may be on the decline due to lack of natural browse instead of age.

JMO.

Ragoo said:

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It is a shame that WT only live 6ish years naturally.

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It's not uncommon for deer on our 8,0000 acres in Mexico to go past 8, the biggest buck we have shot so far (10 years on this ranch) scored over 195" and was 8 1/2. We are fortunate to have very low hunting pressure, and feed cotton seed year round. I would say "most" bucks on our ranch are at peak antlers around 7 1/2. We do not shoot trophies until they are 7 1/2. I know of several deer on our ranch that have lived well past 8 1/2. We generally try to cull our management deer at 51/2 +.

I would say every ranch and part of the state has it's own individual characteristics in terms of age structure and how long a deer can live "in the wild". I know of one ranch in S Texas that feeds protein year round and they get bucks to 10 years old frequently.

DVM

Apache said:

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I would say the buck in the first pic is in his absolute prime, fat & healthy. 5.5-6.5

Really old, post mature bucks have thinner bodies that look more like 2-1/2 year olds.

This fellas antlers may be on the decline due to lack of natural browse instead of age.

JMO.

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Completely agree. Body says he's on top of the mountain.

Antlers say he's a cull to most people.

Quote:

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I know of one ranch in S Texas that feeds protein year round and they get bucks to 10 years old frequently.

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How are they aging these deer?
Just watching from year to year? Gets impossible to age w/teeth when they are falling out.

Apache said:

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Quote:

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I know of one ranch in S Texas that feeds protein year round and they get bucks to 10 years old frequently.

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How are they aging these deer?
Just watching from year to year? Gets impossible to age w/teeth when they are falling out.

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I'm guessing with ear tags. Because teeth decay would be completely different and unreliable with a different diet.

Like I said, completely isolated high fence hunting ranches are going to be a different story and far from the norm.

Apache said:

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Quote:

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I know of one ranch in S Texas that feeds protein year round and they get bucks to 10 years old frequently.

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How are they aging these deer?
Just watching from year to year? Gets impossible to age w/teeth when they are falling out.

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They've had the lease for 20 years. It's low fence, they are for sure the exception when it comes to nutrition, they feed protein year round. You don't need to see the teeth when you've watched a deer since it was 2 1/2. I've watched deer on our place that will be 81/2-91/2 this year. If they made it through the Summer.

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You don't need to see the teeth when you've watched a deer since it was 2 1/2.

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Yep, that's what I figured

I find IR a bit harder to age. That deer looks mature. Wouldn't argue his horns are declining without a lot more years of pics. Could just be a marginal deer. I've had a deer grow 15" (to 183") at 7.5 - really good year for rain…..even though we supplemental feed as well. Saw a deer go from 10-8-7 and jump back up to a cool 10 at 8.5-9.5. Some folks say when they stop rutting as much their bodies aren't as worn down. Who knows. I don't see those beauty points around the bases on younger deer - but it can happen.

It's been incredibly dry here. As all of Tx. And I don't (I believe others too) do much supplemental feeding.

FallsonbrazosAg91 said:

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It's been incredibly dry here. As all of Tx. And I don't (I believe others too) do much supplemental feeding.

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That buck has tons of character and is mature IMO

FallsonbrazosAg91 said:

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It's been incredibly dry here. As all of Tx. And I don't (I believe others too) do much supplemental feeding.

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What county was the pic taken?

Falls

FallsonbrazosAg91 said:

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Awesome pic!!
I hope you get him!!

Ragoo said:

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MrWonderful said:

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Ragoo said:

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It is a shame that WT only live 6ish years naturally.

---

That may be the statistical mean, but that's the same thing as looking at average life expectancy in the middle ages. Some mature bucks go off and die, sure, but the idea that your average 6 year old buck is going to keel over and die is not accurate. Physically, they are in their prime.

Back out fawn mortality and that number will shoot way up.

---

I mean, okay. Pretty sure the average deer you see will always be in the 3-5 year range with only a few stretching beyond that. Including does.

But my point is that as outdoors people it is a shame that we only get to see individuals within a deer herd for a short fleeting moment in time.

Unlike dogs, or live stock. Maybe I am being weird but part of the beauty in hunting, at least those that sit and really study the herd not that I do spend much time in the field, is the relationship with the animals. Right? I mean most here post game cam pics beginning in the summer, cross referenced back to years past. But the cruel nature is those 1-2 years may be all you get with those specific individuals.

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I don't disagree in general with what you're saying, except that the reason most deer (especially bucks) don't make it past 5 is cause people shoot them. So the idea that a buck is rare because making it past 6 does not mean that it's old.

I hunt a small property and we have been able to successfully shift our age structure from 4.5 being old to 6.5. The 6.5 year olds are in phenomenal physical shape. They don't really get physically old until at least 8.5.

I wasn't trying to disparage you, its hard to let deer get old and have trigger discipline but it pays off in my experience.

He's old and in decline I'd say 7.5 or older.. Time for a pic of someone kneeling down behind him. Don't forget to post pics of his jaws. It will help everyone here.