cslifer said:

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EXACTLY! If the FBI had served a warrant for the back up codes to Liberty that is one thing, but it appears that all the FBI did was say pretty please and they coughed up the numbers!

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And now the FBI has the master code to that lock forever, and to every one of those locks that liberty has ever sold.

Bradley.Kohr.II said:

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Unless it's a requirement- which I really doubt - I cannot see Griffin Safes having a secret code.

That's a heck of a liability to keep as a manufacturer.

But, complying with a warrant shouldn't surprise anyone.

A locksmith is going to drill with a warrant as well.

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I would tell them to go hire a locksmith then.

Q: When the feds have a warrant, are they liable for any damage?

That's a question I have also. How does that effect warranty from Liberty's end? I changed the lock on mine a while back, but part of me wants to contact Liberty and tell them to lose my warranty registration, and I'll forfeit any coverage I have from them.

UninformedInternetBlogger said:

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Can anyone give me a rough guess at the cost of replacing an electric lock with a mechanical?

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I asked about that when I bought mine (15 or so years ago, so memory is pretty fuzzy now). I was told it's an expensive pain that generally isn't worth the hastle, you are better off buying a different safe.

aggielostinETX said:

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Jason_InfinityRoofer said:

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BenderRodriguez said:

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I think assuming any large business will choose to protect individual privacy over cooperating with the feds is….optimistic, at best.

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This is a bit different. I would typically agree with you but I think we are focused on the wrong thing here.

There was a valid warrant. There is no option but to comply with that and I fault no one for that. I'm not losing my business because some yahoo broke the law or did something boneheaded and the feds came to me with a proper warrant per the proper procedure we all talk about.

What we need to focus on is NOT that. We need to focus on the fact that Liberty has an access code that usurps the owners at all. That's a problem. If they had no such code, there would be nothing to help with in terms of the warrant. The safe is not rented from Liberty. It is owned. As such, why anyone but the owner has any codes at all is concerning. It also just killed Liberty off my list of potential new safe providers.

If I'm Fort Knox, Graffunder, Browning, Prosteel, etc, I'd be immediately releasing statements saying I don't keep any additional codes. The fact that we havnt seen that implies that they all have them. If they didn't keep extra codes, they'd state that fact, but they can't because that would be a liability. It's my opinion all of them keep extras and all of them will yield to warrants.

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But the issue is here is, the warrant is not with liberty, the warrant is with the owner of the state. Liberty as well within their rights to tell them to pound sand and absolutely should have.

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Remember when Apple did that a few yeas back and was lauded by the media for standing up to big government?

schmellba99 said:

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UninformedInternetBlogger said:

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Can anyone give me a rough guess at the cost of replacing an electric lock with a mechanical?

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I asked about that when I bought mine (15 or so years ago, so memory is pretty fuzzy now). I was told it's an expensive pain that generally isn't worth the hastle, you are better off buying a different safe.

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http://www.locksmith-technologies.com/contact.html

This is the man to talk to. I've known John for years. Great locksmith, and I firmly believe he is in the tell the FBI to pound sand camp.

schmellba99 said:

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aggielostinETX said:

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Jason_InfinityRoofer said:

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BenderRodriguez said:

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I think assuming any large business will choose to protect individual privacy over cooperating with the feds is….optimistic, at best.

---

This is a bit different. I would typically agree with you but I think we are focused on the wrong thing here.

There was a valid warrant. There is no option but to comply with that and I fault no one for that. I'm not losing my business because some yahoo broke the law or did something boneheaded and the feds came to me with a proper warrant per the proper procedure we all talk about.

What we need to focus on is NOT that. We need to focus on the fact that Liberty has an access code that usurps the owners at all. That's a problem. If they had no such code, there would be nothing to help with in terms of the warrant. The safe is not rented from Liberty. It is owned. As such, why anyone but the owner has any codes at all is concerning. It also just killed Liberty off my list of potential new safe providers.

If I'm Fort Knox, Graffunder, Browning, Prosteel, etc, I'd be immediately releasing statements saying I don't keep any additional codes. The fact that we havnt seen that implies that they all have them. If they didn't keep extra codes, they'd state that fact, but they can't because that would be a liability. It's my opinion all of them keep extras and all of them will yield to warrants.

---

But the issue is here is, the warrant is not with liberty, the warrant is with the owner of the state. Liberty as well within their rights to tell them to pound sand and absolutely should have.

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Remember when Apple did that a few yeas back and was lauded by the media for standing up to big government?

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Yeah, tons of lib media have iPhones, but not that many have guns or gun safes. Furthermore we were told that the iPhone would eventually be unlockable if it wasnt unlocked properly. In contrast, there are probably hundreds of locksmiths out there that have no ethical reservations about opening this safe with a drill if Liberty doesn't give up the code.

I don't know if I would ever be in the market for a Liberty safety, but in the event I do I will like shop for other brands.

Daddy-O5 said:

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🚨 Last week, a friend of ours was raided by the feds over J6, his name is Nathan Hughes and he’s from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Nate was raided by the FBI and arrested at gun point. His girlfriend (who just had a miscarriage) was held at gun point and put in handcuffs. The FBI… pic.twitter.com/LOpMQ28eUJ

— Hodgetwins (@hodgetwins) September 5, 2023

Quote:

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The FBI turned off his security cameras, unplugged his internet, and flipped his house upside down in a search. The feds called the manufacturer of his Liberty Gun Safe and got the passcode to get into it too. All for protesting at the Capitol over 2 1/2 years ago.

---

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yeah, i'm sure he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

sorry, but I don't feel bad for any of these idiots who participated on jan 6th.

AggieOO said:

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Daddy-O5 said:

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🚨 Last week, a friend of ours was raided by the feds over J6, his name is Nathan Hughes and he’s from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Nate was raided by the FBI and arrested at gun point. His girlfriend (who just had a miscarriage) was held at gun point and put in handcuffs. The FBI… pic.twitter.com/LOpMQ28eUJ

— Hodgetwins (@hodgetwins) September 5, 2023

Quote:

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The FBI turned off his security cameras, unplugged his internet, and flipped his house upside down in a search. The feds called the manufacturer of his Liberty Gun Safe and got the passcode to get into it too. All for protesting at the Capitol over 2 1/2 years ago.

---

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yeah, i'm sure he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

sorry, but I don't feel bad for any of these idiots who participated on jan 6th.

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BLM riots burn cities and that's okay.

Protest in DC gets the full weight of the federal government?

aggielostinETX said:

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Jason_InfinityRoofer said:

---

BenderRodriguez said:

---

I think assuming any large business will choose to protect individual privacy over cooperating with the feds is….optimistic, at best.

---

This is a bit different. I would typically agree with you but I think we are focused on the wrong thing here.

There was a valid warrant. There is no option but to comply with that and I fault no one for that. I'm not losing my business because some yahoo broke the law or did something boneheaded and the feds came to me with a proper warrant per the proper procedure we all talk about.

What we need to focus on is NOT that. We need to focus on the fact that Liberty has an access code that usurps the owners at all. That's a problem. If they had no such code, there would be nothing to help with in terms of the warrant. The safe is not rented from Liberty. It is owned. As such, why anyone but the owner has any codes at all is concerning. It also just killed Liberty off my list of potential new safe providers.

If I'm Fort Knox, Graffunder, Browning, Prosteel, etc, I'd be immediately releasing statements saying I don't keep any additional codes. The fact that we havnt seen that implies that they all have them. If they didn't keep extra codes, they'd state that fact, but they can't because that would be a liability. It's my opinion all of them keep extras and all of them will yield to warrants.

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But the issue is here is, the warrant is not with liberty, the warrant is with the owner of the state. Liberty as well within their rights to tell them to pound sand and absolutely should have.

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I don't have a copy of the warrant or any information other than the OP. If the warrant was not listing Liberty as the recipient than yeah that's different. I can't find any real legit info online as to what's what and won't rely on comment section for it. Anyone got better info?

Naveronski said:

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BLM riots burn cities and that's okay.

Protest in DC gets the full weight of the federal government?

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Excuse me sir, those were fiery but mostly peaceful protests, not riots.

And of course its different. The penalty for attacking the nobility is always more severe than attacking simple serfs.

AggieOO said:

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Daddy-O5 said:

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🚨 Last week, a friend of ours was raided by the feds over J6, his name is Nathan Hughes and he’s from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Nate was raided by the FBI and arrested at gun point. His girlfriend (who just had a miscarriage) was held at gun point and put in handcuffs. The FBI… pic.twitter.com/LOpMQ28eUJ

— Hodgetwins (@hodgetwins) September 5, 2023

Quote:

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The FBI turned off his security cameras, unplugged his internet, and flipped his house upside down in a search. The feds called the manufacturer of his Liberty Gun Safe and got the passcode to get into it too. All for protesting at the Capitol over 2 1/2 years ago.

---

---

yeah, i'm sure he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

sorry, but I don't feel bad for any of these idiots who participated on jan 6th.

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Ahh yes....peaceful protesting is verboten these days. Carry on, comrade.

schmellba99 said:

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AggieOO said:

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Daddy-O5 said:

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🚨 Last week, a friend of ours was raided by the feds over J6, his name is Nathan Hughes and he’s from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Nate was raided by the FBI and arrested at gun point. His girlfriend (who just had a miscarriage) was held at gun point and put in handcuffs. The FBI… pic.twitter.com/LOpMQ28eUJ

— Hodgetwins (@hodgetwins) September 5, 2023

Quote:

---

The FBI turned off his security cameras, unplugged his internet, and flipped his house upside down in a search. The feds called the manufacturer of his Liberty Gun Safe and got the passcode to get into it too. All for protesting at the Capitol over 2 1/2 years ago.

---

---

yeah, i'm sure he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

sorry, but I don't feel bad for any of these idiots who participated on jan 6th.

---

Ahh yes....peaceful protesting is verboten these days. Carry on, comrade.

---

They had a warrant to search for the weapon that killed Ashley Babbit.

Sorry for derailing. Some days I find it difficult to un-F16 myself.

Naveronski said:

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AggieOO said:

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Daddy-O5 said:

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🚨 Last week, a friend of ours was raided by the feds over J6, his name is Nathan Hughes and he’s from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Nate was raided by the FBI and arrested at gun point. His girlfriend (who just had a miscarriage) was held at gun point and put in handcuffs. The FBI… pic.twitter.com/LOpMQ28eUJ

— Hodgetwins (@hodgetwins) September 5, 2023

Quote:

---

The FBI turned off his security cameras, unplugged his internet, and flipped his house upside down in a search. The feds called the manufacturer of his Liberty Gun Safe and got the passcode to get into it too. All for protesting at the Capitol over 2 1/2 years ago.

---

---

yeah, i'm sure he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

sorry, but I don't feel bad for any of these idiots who participated on jan 6th.

---

BLM riots burn cities and that's okay.

Protest in DC gets the full weight of the federal government?

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Please show me where I said blm riots burning cities was ok. Oh yeah, I didn't.

I assume they also keep a record of the combo for every mechanical lock too.

Burdizzo said:

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schmellba99 said:

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AggieOO said:

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Daddy-O5 said:

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🚨 Last week, a friend of ours was raided by the feds over J6, his name is Nathan Hughes and he’s from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Nate was raided by the FBI and arrested at gun point. His girlfriend (who just had a miscarriage) was held at gun point and put in handcuffs. The FBI… pic.twitter.com/LOpMQ28eUJ

— Hodgetwins (@hodgetwins) September 5, 2023

Quote:

---

The FBI turned off his security cameras, unplugged his internet, and flipped his house upside down in a search. The feds called the manufacturer of his Liberty Gun Safe and got the passcode to get into it too. All for protesting at the Capitol over 2 1/2 years ago.

---

---

yeah, i'm sure he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

sorry, but I don't feel bad for any of these idiots who participated on jan 6th.

---

Ahh yes....peaceful protesting is verboten these days. Carry on, comrade.

---

They had a warrant to search for the weapon that killed Ashley Babbit.

Sorry for derailing. Some days I find it difficult to un-F16 myself.

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You mean the government owned weapon that they should have already had in evidence that was used by a Capitol police officer to murder her?

WTF have the feds been doing for 2 years? Oh, going after grandma's and what not I suppose.

Pretty good info from this guy on Liberty Safes.

Apparently you can replace the lock/combo etc without Liberty having it.

We firmly believe in our customers' right and freedom to control their personal property. pic.twitter.com/3UfdsvPTxN

— SecureIt Gun Storage (@SecureItStorage) September 6, 2023

pic.twitter.com/EOvUXdOTkm

— Liberty Safe (@libertysafeinc) September 7, 2023

BQ_2010 said:

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pic.twitter.com/EOvUXdOTkm

— Liberty Safe (@libertysafeinc) September 7, 2023

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Liberty Safe was sold to Monomoy Capital Partners in 2021, a liberal East Coast investment firm. I pulled the FEC reports on the company and found approximately $400,000 over the last 10 cycles of max donations to Democrats like:

Raphael Warnock in GA
John Fetterman in PA… pic.twitter.com/WqnlQpPnrA

— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) September 7, 2023

Just saw that as well

BQ_2010 said:

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pic.twitter.com/EOvUXdOTkm

— Liberty Safe (@libertysafeinc) September 7, 2023

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Well that answers that question. It seems the retention of factory codes HAS to be disclosed to customers upon purchase. Honestly, it never occurred to me that I could get a a backup code if I had a new safe. I'd ASSUME you just program your code and the old it written over and that's that.

I'm going to walk back my defense of Liberty now that they've admitted they screwed up and just now are offering a means of expunging the codes. It's not great

Anyone know what Brownings stance is? I only saw one safe company take advantage of liberty's screw up.

Well, it doesn't fix what happened, but I can appreciate their response. Own the mistake, and tell me how it will be different moving forward.

My safe is an old OLD dial type mechanical combination safe. Good luck finding the "backup code" for that.

Although, I suppose government agents could just take the whole thing and blow the door off of it, if they really wanted to access the contents.

Jason_InfinityRoofer said:

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BQ_2010 said:

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pic.twitter.com/EOvUXdOTkm

— Liberty Safe (@libertysafeinc) September 7, 2023

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Well that answers that question. It seems the retention of factory codes HAS to be disclosed to customers upon purchase. Honestly, it never occurred to me that I could get a a backup code if I had a new safe. I'd ASSUME you just program your code and the old it written over and that's that.

I'm going to walk back my defense of Liberty now that they've admitted they screwed up and just now are offering a means of expunging the codes. It's not great

Anyone know what Brownings stance is? I only saw one safe company take advantage of liberty's screw up.

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Browning/ Pro Steel keep back door access codes as well. I confirmed that yesterday. Waiting to see if they issue a statement.

So all of these safes and the keypads are EMP proof but not FBI proof.

That sucks.

Submitted the form to Liberty. I probably just ensured my visit from the overlords.

Looks like Rhino safes are bad, too.

aggielostinETX said:

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BQ_2010 said:

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pic.twitter.com/EOvUXdOTkm

— Liberty Safe (@libertysafeinc) September 7, 2023

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Liberty Safe was sold to Monomoy Capital Partners in 2021, a liberal East Coast investment firm. I pulled the FEC reports on the company and found approximately $400,000 over the last 10 cycles of max donations to Democrats like:

Raphael Warnock in GA
John Fetterman in PA… pic.twitter.com/WqnlQpPnrA

— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) September 7, 2023

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This is reason enough to never do business with these slimeballs. Their products had a high degree of demand and loyalty to people who believe in the 2nd amendment and who intend to safeguard their property. The liberal left wing owners are taking their money and turning those funds into political action working directly against the interests of their customers. Only a fool would spend money with them now once you know the rest of the story.

I'm surprised people are shocked that they all have backup codes to get in. Of course the do. I also believe both Apple and Google have back door ways to get into their devices, even if they claim they don't.

Why are you upset that they would comply with a court order?

If you don't like them storing a code, that's fair.

Get a safe with an old school mechanical combination access and then reset the combination. There's only one set of numbers that will work after you change it--the ones you put on the equipment. If you aren't comfortable doing it yourself, you can get a locksmith to help you do it in a way so that he doesn't even see the new settings.

To be clear, ANY safe can be opened. If the FBI wants in, they'll get in by destroying it. It's relatively easy to do it this way, but it's time consuming. The real trick is putting a safe somewhere they won't find. Can't open something you can't find.

Bradley.Kohr.II said:

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Why are you upset that they would comply with a court order?

If you don't like them storing a code, that's fair.

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1) Court orders aren't always legal. https://theintercept.com/2016/02/29/apple-wins-major-court-victory-in-its-battle-against-fbi-in-a-case-similar-to-san-bernardino/

2) No, I don't like them storing backup codes.
2a) I do recognize it is a far more likely scenario where a customer forgets their safe combination and needs help than a customer is at risk for having firearms unconstitutionally seized.

Bradley.Kohr.II said:

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Why are you upset that they would comply with a court order?

If you don't like them storing a code, that's fair.

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They complied based on a search warrant for the property, not a court order demanding the code from them. Big difference. Doesn't matter, they are owned by politically active libs and are just as dead to me as Dicks Sporting Goods and Ben and Jerry's.