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Yellowstone. Again.

8,904 Views | 86 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by SteveBott
cupofjoe04
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Premium said:



If you look at the picture it looks like he's keeping it from drowning in the river. It isn't something I would do, but we don't seem to know the full circumstances.


You say that as if it makes it acceptable or OK. His intentions are immaterial. No one is saying this guy was doing things maliciously. No doubt he had good intentions. Just like the couple who put the baby bison in their car, because it looked cold. Good intentions- but the completely wrong action which actually caused more harm. They took a calf that might or might not have died, and doomed it to certain death.

These are wild animals. In nature. Nature is metal. Things drown and die every day. Calves get left behind. Occasionally it's just bad luck. Sometimes it's because the herd can smell/sense the calf has a weakness or disease that poses a larger risk to the herd as a whole. This guy is the one who doesn't know the context or full circumstance, and took it upon himself to "save" the calf. That was wrong, period, as is clearly posted/instructed/know.
cupofjoe04
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*please delete, double post*


justnobody79
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BrazosDog02 said:

Why did they euthanize? Gosh I wish there was some sort of organization or something that took animals and raised them in sanctuaries. Man, what a great idea. Someone should start an organization like that.
I believe all the bison at Yellowstone have some kind of disease that they don't want to get exposed outside the park
AggieChemist
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giddings_ag_06 said:

Y'all realize it will only get worse, right? The vast majority of Americans only have outdoor experience from a city park or backyard the size of a living room. For cheap trips or to "experience the outdoors" they just load up and drive through parks usually having never even seen any of these animals before. They don't watch the outdoor or discovery channels and know what nature is really like. The more citified Americans get, the more dumb decisions they will make in parks. Harsh fines won't teach anyone before the fact either. Videos would help, but we have too many idiots trying to get "outdoorsy" now.
It's even worse. I lecture several times a year to WVU wildlife and fisheries students and most of them now did not grow up hunting and fishing.

The people that will make wildlife decisions for our kids are now in college. And they don't have a clue.

mpl35
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Pro Sandy said:

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txaggie_08 said:

Just because it was separated at the moment doesn't mean it was going to be left for good.


If you look at the picture it looks like he's keeping it from drowning in the river. It isn't something I would do, but we don't seem to know the full circumstances.
The guy disturbed wildlife by carrying it. It is against park rules because it is a place to preserve wildlife and doing so can harm humans and the wildlife.

What other information you need?
Nothing, but I can see how someone who didn't know the rules might do what he did if it was in danger of dying


Not know the rules? They are at every entrance and visitor center. They give you a handout pamphlet as you enter that on the first page says to not do this.
chet98
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The article also says the below:

NPS has frequently defended its policy of not interfering in the natural death of animals on public lands, including orphaned offspring.

If that calf was going to drown the NPS would have allowed it. Nature can be cruel but maybe that calf's genes didn't need to be passed along (too dumb not to drown)
Premium
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mpl35 said:

Premium said:

Pro Sandy said:

Premium said:

txaggie_08 said:

Just because it was separated at the moment doesn't mean it was going to be left for good.


If you look at the picture it looks like he's keeping it from drowning in the river. It isn't something I would do, but we don't seem to know the full circumstances.
The guy disturbed wildlife by carrying it. It is against park rules because it is a place to preserve wildlife and doing so can harm humans and the wildlife.

What other information you need?
Nothing, but I can see how someone who didn't know the rules might do what he did if it was in danger of dying


Not know the rules? They are at every entrance and visitor center. They give you a handout pamphlet as you enter that on the first page says to not do this.
I've been to that park and others, I can't say I've ever read the pamphlet. I sure as hell wouldn't touch a wild animal for other reasons, but I can see how someone was ignorant of the rules.
Premium
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chet98 said:

The article also says the below:

NPS has frequently defended its policy of not interfering in the natural death of animals on public lands, including orphaned offspring.

If that calf was going to drown the NPS would have allowed it. Nature can be cruel but maybe that calf's genes didn't need to be passed along (too dumb not to drown)
As they should, it's literally the wild not a petting zoo
Premium
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They should fine him like $2,000 and run the news story to set the example, not pursue jail time. That's messed up in this case. I'm sure there are instances that deserve jail but not this it seems.
Hoyt Ag
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Premium said:

They should fine him like $2,000 and run the news story to set the example, not pursue jail time. That's messed up in this case. I'm sure there are instances that deserve jail but not this it seems.
They will most likely fine him or just a stern talking to. I was a backcountry ranger for 6 years and the public goes to level 9 dumb when they enter parks. Ursus and I should write a book on the dumb sh*t people have done and the messes we had to clean up over the years. Rules are rules and people need to be held accountable, despite our support for this mans intentions.
Pro Sandy
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Premium said:

mpl35 said:

Premium said:

Pro Sandy said:

Premium said:

txaggie_08 said:

Just because it was separated at the moment doesn't mean it was going to be left for good.


If you look at the picture it looks like he's keeping it from drowning in the river. It isn't something I would do, but we don't seem to know the full circumstances.
The guy disturbed wildlife by carrying it. It is against park rules because it is a place to preserve wildlife and doing so can harm humans and the wildlife.

What other information you need?
Nothing, but I can see how someone who didn't know the rules might do what he did if it was in danger of dying


Not know the rules? They are at every entrance and visitor center. They give you a handout pamphlet as you enter that on the first page says to not do this.
I've been to that park and others, I can't say I've ever read the pamphlet. I sure as hell wouldn't touch a wild animal for other reasons, but I can see how someone was ignorant of the rules.
I don't know what else we can do. Actions like this and people refusing the adhere, or even read, the rules leads to places being even more restrictive.

How can we help you and others learn and follow the rules to protect our wild places from people not following the rules?
mpl35
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Premium said:

mpl35 said:

Premium said:

Pro Sandy said:

Premium said:

txaggie_08 said:

Just because it was separated at the moment doesn't mean it was going to be left for good.


If you look at the picture it looks like he's keeping it from drowning in the river. It isn't something I would do, but we don't seem to know the full circumstances.
The guy disturbed wildlife by carrying it. It is against park rules because it is a place to preserve wildlife and doing so can harm humans and the wildlife.

What other information you need?
Nothing, but I can see how someone who didn't know the rules might do what he did if it was in danger of dying


Not know the rules? They are at every entrance and visitor center. They give you a handout pamphlet as you enter that on the first page says to not do this.
I've been to that park and others, I can't say I've ever read the pamphlet. I sure as hell wouldn't touch a wild animal for other reasons, but I can see how someone was ignorant of the rules.


I don't get it. They are posted. They hand the rules out. Ignorance is no excuse. Fine his ass. Jail him. Make a point. People are negligent and cause issues each year because they think they know best.
mhnatt
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Not to one up ya Canyon, but these were in our front yard this week

McInnis
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Pro Sandy said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

You should have to pass a basics outdoor test in order to access Yellowstone.
When I went backpacking in Yellowstone, they made me watch a video on bears. Probably should be required by all visitors so they won't be idiots.

Me and my hiking partner had, however, been personally trained by our own urus and found the video lacking compared to his training!


Can you imagine the logistics of requiring every visitor to the park to watch a bear safety video. During peak tourist season the wait at entry gates can easily be more than 20 minutes because people won't have their park passes or credit cards ready, or just can't pass up the chance to chat with the nice lady or man at the booth.
Stringfellow Hawke
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Stringfellow Hawke
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mhnatt
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McInnis said:

Pro Sandy said:

Ol_Ag_02 said:

You should have to pass a basics outdoor test in order to access Yellowstone.
When I went backpacking in Yellowstone, they made me watch a video on bears. Probably should be required by all visitors so they won't be idiots.

Me and my hiking partner had, however, been personally trained by our own urus and found the video lacking compared to his training!


Can you imagine the logistics of requiring every visitor to the park to watch a bear safety video. During peak tourist season the wait at entry gates can easily be more than 20 minutes because people won't have their park passes or credit cards ready, or just can't pass up the chance to chat with the nice lady or man at the booth.


I think he's meaning that one would have to show something akin to a hunter or boater safety course completion (something like a "wildlife or park safety" certification). That unfortunately would be a good idea to require proof to visit certain national parks.
RoadkillBBQ
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Ol_Ag_02 said:

You should have to pass a basics outdoor test in order to access Yellowstone.
Oh hell no.
Does that make me a bad person?
Mathguy64
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I'm not saying it can be or should be done at Yellowstone but there is at least one NP that does this. If you go to Brooks Lodge in Katmai NP everyone takes a bear safety course 5 minutes after hitting the beach. It doesn't matter if you have been there before or not. You take it every time you go.

And for the record it's hilariously impractical at Yellowstone.

What would help would be if a random 1 in 100 of every idiot tourist who steps off the boardwalk would fall through the crust and get boiled alive for the rest to see.
CanyonAg77
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What are those tall pointy plants, and those tall pointy landscapes?

Don't have those here.
BrazosDog02
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justnobody79 said:

BrazosDog02 said:

Why did they euthanize? Gosh I wish there was some sort of organization or something that took animals and raised them in sanctuaries. Man, what a great idea. Someone should start an organization like that.
I believe all the bison at Yellowstone have some kind of disease that they don't want to get exposed outside the park


That makes sense. Thanks for the info.
CanyonAg77
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I believe the problem is Brucellosis. When we've had it in Texas, it limited our ability to ship cattle out of state.

Maybe a cattle guy can come in and explain it better
AgRyan04
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Premium said:

mpl35 said:

Premium said:

Pro Sandy said:

Premium said:

txaggie_08 said:

Just because it was separated at the moment doesn't mean it was going to be left for good.


If you look at the picture it looks like he's keeping it from drowning in the river. It isn't something I would do, but we don't seem to know the full circumstances.
The guy disturbed wildlife by carrying it. It is against park rules because it is a place to preserve wildlife and doing so can harm humans and the wildlife.

What other information you need?
Nothing, but I can see how someone who didn't know the rules might do what he did if it was in danger of dying


Not know the rules? They are at every entrance and visitor center. They give you a handout pamphlet as you enter that on the first page says to not do this.
I've been to that park and others, I can't say I've ever read the pamphlet. I sure as hell wouldn't touch a wild animal for other reasons, but I can see how someone was ignorant of the rules.


Just by watching people trying to carryon enormous bags at the airline gate, I can absolutely see people doing this.

But claiming ignorance is not a get out if jail free card.
Premium
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AgRyan04 said:

Premium said:

mpl35 said:

Premium said:

Pro Sandy said:

Premium said:

txaggie_08 said:

Just because it was separated at the moment doesn't mean it was going to be left for good.


If you look at the picture it looks like he's keeping it from drowning in the river. It isn't something I would do, but we don't seem to know the full circumstances.
The guy disturbed wildlife by carrying it. It is against park rules because it is a place to preserve wildlife and doing so can harm humans and the wildlife.

What other information you need?
Nothing, but I can see how someone who didn't know the rules might do what he did if it was in danger of dying


Not know the rules? They are at every entrance and visitor center. They give you a handout pamphlet as you enter that on the first page says to not do this.
I've been to that park and others, I can't say I've ever read the pamphlet. I sure as hell wouldn't touch a wild animal for other reasons, but I can see how someone was ignorant of the rules.


Just by watching people trying to carryon enormous bags at the airline gate, I can absolutely see people doing this.

But claiming ignorance is not a get out if jail free card.


No, but should touching animals be criminal other than a fine. It would be interesting to see the Venn Diagram of those who say do not touch a Bison to those who say you should kill lions and elephants.
mpl35
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Premium said:

AgRyan04 said:

Premium said:

mpl35 said:

Premium said:

Pro Sandy said:

Premium said:

txaggie_08 said:

Just because it was separated at the moment doesn't mean it was going to be left for good.


If you look at the picture it looks like he's keeping it from drowning in the river. It isn't something I would do, but we don't seem to know the full circumstances.
The guy disturbed wildlife by carrying it. It is against park rules because it is a place to preserve wildlife and doing so can harm humans and the wildlife.

What other information you need?
Nothing, but I can see how someone who didn't know the rules might do what he did if it was in danger of dying


Not know the rules? They are at every entrance and visitor center. They give you a handout pamphlet as you enter that on the first page says to not do this.
I've been to that park and others, I can't say I've ever read the pamphlet. I sure as hell wouldn't touch a wild animal for other reasons, but I can see how someone was ignorant of the rules.


Just by watching people trying to carryon enormous bags at the airline gate, I can absolutely see people doing this.

But claiming ignorance is not a get out if jail free card.


No, but should touching animals be criminal other than a fine. It would be interesting to see the Venn Diagram of those who say do not touch a Bison to those who say you should kill lions and elephants.
Clear as day. Don't feed, approach, touch the animals. Morons carried it out and tried to "rescue it". Jail time and a fine or tourons will do it again and again. I'm sorry you ignored the very obvious postings and pamphlets and didn't' realize this was not allowed but that is no excuse. I have never gone to a park and not read the rules.
AgRyan04
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If your touching of the animal leads directly to its death, yes.
flashplayer
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Memo to city slicker know nothing dumbasses:

The following applies to deer, cattle, bison, pretty much any grazing animal and many mammals:

If you see a baby [insert animal] by itself, chances are nearly 100% that momma knows the baby is there and will be back later to attend to it. The rules for babies in the Target parking lot parked cars are not the same for other animals. Leave the damn babies alone and stay in your lane. Also, please don't consider sexual reproduction.
Pro Sandy
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Premium said:

AgRyan04 said:

Premium said:

mpl35 said:

Premium said:

Pro Sandy said:

Premium said:

txaggie_08 said:

Just because it was separated at the moment doesn't mean it was going to be left for good.


If you look at the picture it looks like he's keeping it from drowning in the river. It isn't something I would do, but we don't seem to know the full circumstances.
The guy disturbed wildlife by carrying it. It is against park rules because it is a place to preserve wildlife and doing so can harm humans and the wildlife.

What other information you need?
Nothing, but I can see how someone who didn't know the rules might do what he did if it was in danger of dying


Not know the rules? They are at every entrance and visitor center. They give you a handout pamphlet as you enter that on the first page says to not do this.
I've been to that park and others, I can't say I've ever read the pamphlet. I sure as hell wouldn't touch a wild animal for other reasons, but I can see how someone was ignorant of the rules.


Just by watching people trying to carryon enormous bags at the airline gate, I can absolutely see people doing this.

But claiming ignorance is not a get out if jail free card.


No, but should touching animals be criminal other than a fine. It would be interesting to see the Venn Diagram of those who say do not touch a Bison to those who say you should kill lions and elephants.
Killing elephants in Yellowstone is fine as they are all invasive
BrazosDog02
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CanyonAg77 said:

I believe the problem is Brucellosis. When we've had it in Texas, it limited our ability to ship cattle out of state.

Maybe a cattle guy can come in and explain it better


They have brucellosis? Does it produce the same abortions sequence as in cattle? I assume so.

Imagine getting a calf to term only to have a human touch it and lead to its death…..may want to reflect on which disease is really the bigger problem, eh?
mpl35
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BrazosDog02 said:

CanyonAg77 said:

I believe the problem is Brucellosis. When we've had it in Texas, it limited our ability to ship cattle out of state.

Maybe a cattle guy can come in and explain it better


They have brucellosis? Does it produce the same abortions sequence as in cattle? I assume so.

Imagine getting a calf to term only to have a human touch it and lead to its death…..may want to reflect on which disease is really the bigger problem, eh?


60% of female adult bison tested positive for it. So yeah - they have it
jakeaggie84
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Another side to the debate…..if this was a more rare animal like a baby grizzly or mountain lion and was about to enter a river and drown, would you be more willing to save that animal than you would a heard animal?? Honestly curious if that changes anyone's mind based on the species.

I understand the man's thinking, most likely the calf would have died, but no way to know for sure. So he is doing something that he thinks would save its life but ends up backfiring.
AgRyan04
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I think the issue is that the park has very specific rules about. They have those so uneducated tourists don't need to make those kinds of decisions.

If the park didn't have rules for this very scenario, then this is an entirely different conversation, in my opinion.

That being said, even the NPS will not interfere with nature taking course with Grizzly Cubs, etc
CanyonAg77
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I'm not likely to touch a baby bison and risk the ire of its momma. Sure as Hades not touching a lion or grizzly cub. Either could hurt you by themselves, and momma would end you.

I think an earlier poster had the right take. Baby animals get stashed or wander off all the time. Unless you've been observing them for 12-24 hours, you have almost zero way of knowing when one is "in trouble".

Mama is probably on her way back, and if she's not, it ain't gonna make it anyway
oragator
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Yeah, the simplest way to look at it is…
Maybe the calf had a 25 percent chance of survival left alone, once he intervened it was basically zero. He should be fined at a minimum.
But at least he was trying to help (however utterly misguided) and not some idiot harassing wildlife to get a selfie so he could show his 18 followers what a nature bro he is.
WaldoWings
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CanyonAg77 said:

Going through the tourons of Yellowstone video, I find a touron right here in my backyard. Well, 80 miles away in Caprock Canyons State Park.

I will say that we encountered two bachelor bulls on a trail in CC a few years ago. We got off the trail as far as we could, kept quiet, and I wondered if the 9mm I was carrying would do anything besides make them angry. Lucky for us, they just ambled on by.

My photo, taken with 135mm telephoto, after they had passed:




The touron video

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CqUSR9RuUyi/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==


I drove through caprock canyon and stayed in Turkey two weeks ago. Beautiful area I never knew existed and a neat little town. I thought I was in Dancer, TX.
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