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Question on handgun in vehicle with and w/o LTC

2,119 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by Fightin TX Aggie
mhnatt
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I don't want to misinterpret but in Texas, if I have a current LTC but for whatever reason do not have my physical card on me (just my DL) with a handgun concealed in the console, am I committing an offense?

I understand that Texas law requires me to disclose this information immediately to the officer if I get pulled over (which he would already know that I'm an LTC upon running the tags before he walks up), but would me displaying a digital copy stored on my smartphone be sufficient or would I even need an LTC at all?

I've looked at https://handgunlaw.us but am still uncertain.

Disclosure: this hasn't happened….yet.
schmellba99
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AG
You should be fine
AXISMEAT
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I got pulled over the other day and had my concealed carry on the passenger seat. Trooper saw it, but didn't say anything. I eventually said, "Oh by the way I have an LTC and my carry is clearly sitting right there" and he just mentioned that he didn't need to see my card. He was just wanting to check my truck for illegals and told me he's glad I carry and went on his way.
mhnatt
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Yes, I know that generally doing so is probably and should be okay. I'm looking for more black/white legal/not legal. The text seems confusing to me (as does most legal text).
OnlyForNow
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Can't have it on you I believe.
txyaloo
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mhnatt said:

I don't want to misinterpret but in Texas, if I have a current LTC but for whatever reason do not have my physical card on me (just my DL) with a handgun concealed in the console, am I committing an offense?

I understand that Texas law requires me to disclose this information immediately to the officer if I get pulled over (which he would already know that I'm an LTC upon running the tags before he walks up), but would me displaying a digital copy stored on my smartphone be sufficient or would I even need an LTC at all?

I've looked at https://handgunlaw.us but am still uncertain.

Disclosure: this hasn't happened….yet.
Texas has Constitutional Carry since last year. You don't need your LTC to carry. You would instead be carrying under the authority of Constitutional Carry

And while by law you have to show your LTC when law enforcement asks for ID, the legislature removed the penalty for not showing ~5 years ago. Makes no sense to require LTC to show when previously you could carry under authority of MPA w/no LTC and now nearly everyone can carry without one
txyaloo
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OnlyForNow said:

Can't have it on you I believe.
You absolutely can have it on you. The law changed 2 years ago
Ag_07
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I thought that even before Constitutional Carry went into affect you didn't need an LTC to carry in your vehicle.

Your vehicle is your property and thus an extension of your home so its not concealed carry if it's in your vehicle. It's essentially the same as you keeping a gun at your house.
Alte Schule
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This is an open carry state. As long as you can legally purchase a firearm you can carry it openly, concealed or in your vehicle, without a license. Some businesses and most government offices do not allow firearms. Just pay attention to any sign at the entrance that announces any firearm restrictions.

The Texas Handgun License is good to have if you travel to another state that has a reciprocal license agreement with Texas and to avoid the background check when purchasing a firearm but really is no longer needed.

Alte Schule
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Ag_07 said:

I thought that even before Constitutional Carry went into affect you didn't need an LTC to carry in your vehicle.

Your vehicle is your property and thus an extension of your home so its not concealed carry if it's in your vehicle. It's essentially the same as you keeping a gun at your house.
This was true as long as it was on your person or, if not on you,, concealed from view.
F4GIB71
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I agree with all these points, but why would you not have your LTC but have your DL? I take my wallet and keys whenever I go somewhere. The LTC is next to my DL in my wallet.

I do walk in my neighborhood every day for exercise and carry when I do so. I do not have either form of ID with me.
OnlyForNow
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Confused about the old law obviously.

Thanks for the correction.
Fightin TX Aggie
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Even before LTC, you could carry if you were "traveling." Then, when you reached your destination (such as a hotel room) you needed to leave it there.

But say you drove to from Fort Worth to Austin one morning, spent the day in meetings, had lunch and then back to meetings, and then you drove back to Fort Worth: you could carry all day under the traveling law. Again, even before LTC.
CypressAg09
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If you don't have an LTC, but you keep a gun in your vehicle, it has to be out of sight, correct?
Alte Schule
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CypressAg09 said:

If you don't have an LTC, but you keep a gun in your vehicle, it has to be out of sight, correct?
Probably a good idea to keep it out of view but it is not a requirement under current state law.

From the State of Texas Law Library: In Texas, a person can transport a handgun in their vehicle or a vehicle "under the person's control" if they are otherwise allowed to possess a firearm, with some exceptions. If the handgun is in "plain view," a person must be over 21 or have a License to Carry (LTC) and have the firearm in a holster. House Bill 1927 eliminated the requirement to have a License to Carry (LTC) to keep a handgun in plain view within a vehicle.



agsalaska
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CypressAg09 said:

If you don't have an LTC, but you keep a gun in your vehicle, it has to be out of sight, correct?
Why?

Pretty sure all those weird ass rules are gone. But I could be wrong.
Ryan the Temp
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Alte Schule said:

CypressAg09 said:

If you don't have an LTC, but you keep a gun in your vehicle, it has to be out of sight, correct?
Probably a good idea to keep it out of view but it is not a requirement under current state law.

From the State of Texas Law Library: In Texas, a person can transport a handgun in their vehicle or a vehicle "under the person's control" if they are otherwise allowed to possess a firearm, with some exceptions. If the handgun is in "plain view," a person must be over 21 or have a License to Carry (LTC) and have the firearm in a holster. House Bill 1927 eliminated the requirement to have a License to Carry (LTC) to keep a handgun in plain view within a vehicle.
Did this making leaving the firearm on the passenger seat legal? I know it wasn't legal before the law passed.
mhnatt
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F4GIB71 said:

I agree with all these points, but why would you not have your LTC but have your DL? I take my wallet and keys whenever I go somewhere. The LTC is next to my DL in my wallet.

I do walk in my neighborhood every day for exercise and carry when I do so. I do not have either form of ID with me.


Good question. I stopped carrying a wallet about 10 years ago. My phone case holds 4 cards (DL, personal CC, and two business CCs, and a thin healthcare card). I just can't squeeze in another card and the others are used more often. Wallets are so 2010's.



Alte Schule
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Fightin TX Aggie said:

Even before LTC, you could carry if you were "traveling." Then, when you reached your destination (such as a hotel room) you needed to leave it there.

But say you drove to from Fort Worth to Austin one morning, spent the day in meetings, had lunch and then back to meetings, and then you drove back to Fort Worth: you could carry all day under the traveling law. Again, even before LTC.
The archaic "traveling" clause was widely misinterpreted by many people. The Texas Penal Code stated you could use "traveling" only as a defense if you were stopped by law enforcement, charged or arrested for illegally having possession of a handgun while in a vehicle. It was up to the LEO on the side of the road or, if arrested, a judge to accept your "traveling" excuse. Your scenario concerning a day trip to Austin and back would have, in all likelihood, been rejected if you had been found with a handgun in your vehicle.

Many folks believed that going over so many county lines or driving a certain amount of miles from your home defined "traveling" but there was nothing in the penal code that reflected that. Having a long gun in the backseat back then wasn't a problem though.
AgEng06
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Great idea! That way you can lose/get stolen two important things at the same time!
F4GIB71
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mhnatt said:


Wallets are so 2010's.




Not for old 70+ guys!

I had a son (early 20's at the time) who would leave his wallet in the car. I finally convinced him it was not a great idea.
Alte Schule
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Ryan the Temp said:

Alte Schule said:

CypressAg09 said:

If you don't have an LTC, but you keep a gun in your vehicle, it has to be out of sight, correct?
Probably a good idea to keep it out of view but it is not a requirement under current state law.

From the State of Texas Law Library: In Texas, a person can transport a handgun in their vehicle or a vehicle "under the person's control" if they are otherwise allowed to possess a firearm, with some exceptions. If the handgun is in "plain view," a person must be over 21 or have a License to Carry (LTC) and have the firearm in a holster. House Bill 1927 eliminated the requirement to have a License to Carry (LTC) to keep a handgun in plain view within a vehicle.
Did this making leaving the firearm on the passenger seat legal? I know it wasn't legal before the law passed.
As long as you're over 21 and can legally possess a handgun and the handgun in a holster you are good to go, open or concealed. Wouldn't recommend keeping it on the passenger seat as braking hard would throw it forward on to the floor but you're free to do that if you want.
F4GIB71
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BTW, heard something recently about comparison of wallets by generation. Old farts have family photos. Younger folks have their family photos on their phones instead.

I have both but it has been years since I showed the ones in the wallet. Maybe it is time to remove and thin it out somewhat.
Fightin TX Aggie
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You may be right, but I read up on the cases way back in the day, and just going on memory, I think my example would have been lawful.
mhnatt
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AgEng06 said:

Great idea! That way you can lose/get stolen two important things at the same time!

Phone cannot be as easily lost (GPS ping/Find My). Lot easier to ping a lost phone than a lost wallet. Plus, the sad fact that we are in/out of our phones far more than our wallet so it's much less likely to be lost.
Alte Schule
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Fightin TX Aggie said:

You may be right, but I read up on the cases way back in the day, and just going on memory, I think my example would have been lawful.
Maybe so. Unfortunately, it would have been dependent on how the LEO interpreted it and there was nothing in the penal code that defined traveling. It only stated traveling could be used as a defense to the charge.

A crappy law that, thankfully, is long gone.
txyaloo
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Fightin TX Aggie said:

You may be right, but I read up on the cases way back in the day, and just going on memory, I think my example would have been lawful.
Using your example, you probably would have been arrested in Travis county, if you were stopped by the police for some reason. The big metro areas were terrible about arresting people who were legally "traveling". It's one reason the MPA was passed 15 years ago
Fightin TX Aggie
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txyaloo said:

Fightin TX Aggie said:

You may be right, but I read up on the cases way back in the day, and just going on memory, I think my example would have been lawful.
Using your example, you probably would have been arrested in Travis county, if you were stopped by the police for some reason. The big metro areas were terrible about arresting people who were legally "traveling". It's one reason the MPA was passed 15 years ago
Makes sense. Since the statute didn't define "traveling," I pulled the case law on it, and it was relatively forgiving.

Of course, a case decision doesn't help you on the day of an arrest.
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