Another event. 15 miles, west tx in feb.
Run N Gun
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Last: 11 days ago by lazuras_dc
OED, lengths moving in the wrong direction…
Looks like Third Coast Tactical has a run and gun 11/25 some spots available. 10K for those interested
https://www.thirdcoasttactical.com/event-details/turkey-take-down-lonestar-heroes-run-n-gun
https://www.thirdcoasttactical.com/event-details/turkey-take-down-lonestar-heroes-run-n-gun
I got a 2 man team. Running with my Father in Law
https://www.oedefense.com/event-details/HR3PolePen?utm_campaign=04380d14-ab10-4fca-9582-3edd24a634f0&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=3d049604-4466-4813-9f1c-62eb7085f52a
https://www.oedefense.com/event-details/HR3PolePen?utm_campaign=04380d14-ab10-4fca-9582-3edd24a634f0&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=3d049604-4466-4813-9f1c-62eb7085f52a
Anyone else going to be at the YO Ranch in January?
I'm going. Looking forward to it. Only my third one and I suspect this will be the hardest yet! Ran a 15k trail run on Saturday to help motivate my training.
Nice work. I suspect recovery for day 2 will be a challenge.
I'm running the same comp with my son. C ya there!UninformedInternetBlogger said:
I got a 2 man team. Running with my Father in Law
https://www.oedefense.com/event-details/HR3PolePen?utm_campaign=04380d14-ab10-4fca-9582-3edd24a634f0&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=3d049604-4466-4813-9f1c-62eb7085f52a
How do the team matches work? Does a Team run together and shoot together? Run separately, shoot separately and times get combined? Thinking of taking my son, but would like a better understanding before signing up.
You start at the same time, run the course together and shoot separately. Has no effect on scoring really. Basically just a companion for the running portion
Edited to say…nvm I'm an idiot. Didn't know junction was the size that it is. Was asking what people going to YO shoot were doing for lodging because my buddy had to back out. I still plan to go. I found fairly cheap hotels in Junction so I'm still going.
Did anyone else make it to YO? Did you stay for the results? I finally left around 1945 and see they still haven't published scores online.
I'll give a little more of a review once I see the scores. I thought the 2 Dot course was great. All stages totally doable but I had a DNF on the long range rifle stage. Was not prepared to shoot at 700+ yards! Several of the par times on the YO side were unrealistic in my opinion, but I need to see the scores before committing to that opinion. Overall, I really enjoyed the stages and the running courses. There were definitely some stage design and logistics problems that they need to address for the future.
I'll give a little more of a review once I see the scores. I thought the 2 Dot course was great. All stages totally doable but I had a DNF on the long range rifle stage. Was not prepared to shoot at 700+ yards! Several of the par times on the YO side were unrealistic in my opinion, but I need to see the scores before committing to that opinion. Overall, I really enjoyed the stages and the running courses. There were definitely some stage design and logistics problems that they need to address for the future.
I was there. 17 miles. Good stuff. Overall I thought it was pretty challenging. I DNF the long range 700? yd stage. Had issues with target ID early on due to sun glare and shadows down in those ravines. Some more DNFs
I had 3 DNFs on YO side. Left 1 target on stage 2 and 6. Pretty frustrating to get that close. Stage 3 was brutal. Curious if anyone completed stage 3… Weak hand pistol at 25+ was difficult to say the least.
Any idea on the holdup on results? My run times were pretty solid (I think). 1hr 8 minutes on YO side and 1 hr 45 min on 2 Dot side. Definitely a challenging weekend, but without results, it's hard to gauge where one stands.
Any idea on the holdup on results? My run times were pretty solid (I think). 1hr 8 minutes on YO side and 1 hr 45 min on 2 Dot side. Definitely a challenging weekend, but without results, it's hard to gauge where one stands.
I really enjoyed stage 4 on the 2 dot side in the bunker. Put a smile on my face
That was my favorite stage of the match.
I also really enjoyed stage 1 YO side. Good mix of targets (but those were the biggest range berms I've ever seen)! I was lucky with an early start and didn't have too long of a wait.
I also really enjoyed stage 1 YO side. Good mix of targets (but those were the biggest range berms I've ever seen)! I was lucky with an early start and didn't have too long of a wait.
Did they say where the action shots their photographer got would be available?
I didn't hear anything about pictures and never saw a photographer.
The "results" are posted now and I'm pretty ticked. Their data on the run time isn't close to reality for me. Interestingly, 30 min off on the 2 Dot side and 60 min off on the YO. A difference in run time rank from 57th to 5th and 12th to 2nd! Currently I'm listed at 15th overall for the match, but my quick swag with accurate data places me 4th or 5th overall.
I plan to address it with OED tomorrow. There was obviously a major problem with the scores and whatever they used Sunday evening for the prize table was pure garbage.
I experienced 2 catastrophic scoring failures when I was at the AMU as a CPT during the Benning 3 Gun match in 2006/7. Worst feeling ever to say, "we failed and we won't have scores." But that's way better than releasing (or perhaps manipulating) scores with bad data and pretending everything is good to go. Match integrity is critical and my 2 experiences with OED are not good.
The "results" are posted now and I'm pretty ticked. Their data on the run time isn't close to reality for me. Interestingly, 30 min off on the 2 Dot side and 60 min off on the YO. A difference in run time rank from 57th to 5th and 12th to 2nd! Currently I'm listed at 15th overall for the match, but my quick swag with accurate data places me 4th or 5th overall.
I plan to address it with OED tomorrow. There was obviously a major problem with the scores and whatever they used Sunday evening for the prize table was pure garbage.
I experienced 2 catastrophic scoring failures when I was at the AMU as a CPT during the Benning 3 Gun match in 2006/7. Worst feeling ever to say, "we failed and we won't have scores." But that's way better than releasing (or perhaps manipulating) scores with bad data and pretending everything is good to go. Match integrity is critical and my 2 experiences with OED are not good.
Yeah they have some serious issues to sort out I think. I think they need to address it quickly because a lot of people are not happy about it. You are not the only one.
Some dude ran around stage one on the 2 dot course with a camera filming me. That's why I ask. I have no idea who that guy was.
I'll go to another OED match but I may wait to see if they change their scoring and time accuracy.
Pretty busy for a while, but planning to go back to WTF in the fall.
Some dude ran around stage one on the 2 dot course with a camera filming me. That's why I ask. I have no idea who that guy was.
I'll go to another OED match but I may wait to see if they change their scoring and time accuracy.
Pretty busy for a while, but planning to go back to WTF in the fall.
I already signed up for the HR3 match in March, but depending on their response to my scoring complaints, may ask for a full refund.
Transparency is critical. I heard a lot of grumbling along the way too and rightfully so. It's unfortunate, because there so many great things about run & gun! (Match) Integrity is everything. Without it, you're just wasting time and money.
Transparency is critical. I heard a lot of grumbling along the way too and rightfully so. It's unfortunate, because there so many great things about run & gun! (Match) Integrity is everything. Without it, you're just wasting time and money.
Agreed. I view it 50/50 as competition/training.
From the competition viewpoint there is obviously a big problem here.
From the training perspective, I think there is too. How are you supposed to give yourself feedback if you DNF a stage but can't see how you stack up to other shooters? Like using time+ scoring or something if you don't hit the par time. I DNFed 4 stages by 2 hits remaining or less. So close it was incredibly frustrating. I have no idea how that stacks up to the other shooters if I am looking at those stages by themselves and just see "DNF"
I was not close to competing to win like it sounds like you were, but I do not think my run time is accurate either. I know I was faster than they show.
From the competition viewpoint there is obviously a big problem here.
From the training perspective, I think there is too. How are you supposed to give yourself feedback if you DNF a stage but can't see how you stack up to other shooters? Like using time+ scoring or something if you don't hit the par time. I DNFed 4 stages by 2 hits remaining or less. So close it was incredibly frustrating. I have no idea how that stacks up to the other shooters if I am looking at those stages by themselves and just see "DNF"
I was not close to competing to win like it sounds like you were, but I do not think my run time is accurate either. I know I was faster than they show.
Post up what they say when you contact them tomorrow. I am interested to hear what they say since I think a bunch of people are unhappy with how things went. Myself included
Agree totally on scoring. The DNF scores are terrible. Especially when 85% or more DNF a stage. Time plus is a much better way to accurately assess marksmanship skill. If there are 20 "hits" on a stage and I get 19 and par out, I shouldn't end up with the same stage score as someone who only gets 4 hits. Par times are definitely necessary, but should be realistic for at least half the competitors.
I have yet to receive a response to my professional (not accusatory) email to OED reference my run times. I have GPS data validating my times along with a video and other people that can confirm on the 2 Dot side. I've also spent a little more time examining the scores and none of it bodes well for OED and the validity of the match results. My correct run times alone, based on my calculations, put me in 3rd place. I could be wrong, but don't think so.
Additionally, Stage 5 on the YO side.... The one you started in the middle and moved to the 6 different positions when the RO called out the position number....I fired 23 rounds, scored 21 hits for a score of 159. One other person scored the same and we finished 2nd with 50 points. The stage "winner", based on the results, scored 41 hits! I will confidently say that is nearly impossible. Also, comparing scores to that winner on stage 5, I beat him significantly on other pistol only stages.
Assuming stage 5 results are in error and with my corrected run times, I would clearly have finished 3rd overall in the match. I certainly don't want to be viewed as a "whiner", but I put in a lot of time and energy preparing for this event. I only want the correct scores to show my actual performance. Oh yeah, it's always nice to win a gun as well.
Additionally, Stage 5 on the YO side.... The one you started in the middle and moved to the 6 different positions when the RO called out the position number....I fired 23 rounds, scored 21 hits for a score of 159. One other person scored the same and we finished 2nd with 50 points. The stage "winner", based on the results, scored 41 hits! I will confidently say that is nearly impossible. Also, comparing scores to that winner on stage 5, I beat him significantly on other pistol only stages.
Assuming stage 5 results are in error and with my corrected run times, I would clearly have finished 3rd overall in the match. I certainly don't want to be viewed as a "whiner", but I put in a lot of time and energy preparing for this event. I only want the correct scores to show my actual performance. Oh yeah, it's always nice to win a gun as well.
I hope they get it sorted for you to your satisfaction. I too have put a lot of time and effort (and money) working to get in much better shape as well as invest in my shooting. I would be incredibly frustrated if I was competing to win and was robbed of 3rd place overall.. I hope to be capable of competing one day, as I am continuing to improve my physical fitness.
But what a disappointment it has been to see how this match went. It was an awesome event, dont get me wrong but I think there are a lot of issues. I hope for the sake of run n gun this stuff can get sorted out.
Where else can you get the same experience?
But what a disappointment it has been to see how this match went. It was an awesome event, dont get me wrong but I think there are a lot of issues. I hope for the sake of run n gun this stuff can get sorted out.
Where else can you get the same experience?
Got a call this afternoon from the match director. He acknowledged lots of scoring problems. Scores won't change because of widespread problems, but at least I have a better understanding of the situation. Still frustrating, but I appreciated his candor and apology. I'll be going to HR3.
jrb2019 said:
Got a call this afternoon from the match director. He acknowledged lots of scoring problems. Scores won't change because of widespread problems, but at least I have a better understanding of the situation. Still frustrating, but I appreciated his candor and apology. I'll be going to HR3.
I know it was a frustrating experience, glad he at least reached out.
If a R&G event followed the path of marathons and use rfid tags to track times instead of pencil and paper to cut down on errors, that would be amazing.
I guess the lesson learned for all of us from your experience is to run with a gps device to track your own movement and time in case errors are made, but that doesn't help when widespread errors render scoring a useless metric.
Good to hear you got a response, good on them. Did he say what they may do differently moving forward?
They won't be doing a 2 day, 1 winner event again. I have no idea how their database works, but I think different shooter numbers for different days caused some problems. I still firmly believe there needs to be a manual score sheet given to the competitor. There has to be a system in place to verify scores beyond my GPS info or any other external record.
Anyone going to be at OED this weekend? Anyone running Sunday? I see they also changed the scoring to 50/50 shoot time/run time. Hope the scoring problems are fixed!
I ran the "rivals" yesterday. Lots of fun. Finished all stages for the first time so pretty excited about that. It was rough terrain, probably the toughest of the 3 that I have done so far.
I was on the "series" course. Enjoyed the match and stayed for the results. Overall, I thought the match ran smoothly. Challenging stages, but the wind definitely made the longer rifle stages difficult. I hope they post results with stage breakdowns again. Finished 6th overall as announced at the awards…*****updated to say the published results show me in 4th place, but the actual score indicates I would be 3rd. I really don't want to b****, but I'm 3 for 3 with OED and scoring problems. Totally understand the complexity of these, but scoring integrity has to get fixed. Otherwise why keep score?***
I threw this out a while back, but if anyone ever wants to test all their gear, run some trails, and shoot, I'm happy to have you out to my place. Near Gatesville.
I threw this out a while back, but if anyone ever wants to test all their gear, run some trails, and shoot, I'm happy to have you out to my place. Near Gatesville.
Me and my son ran the event on Saturday. I signed up as an incentive to remain fit and practice my shooting skills. The event lived up to my expectations, being I used to live in the Hill Country once upon a time. I will say, I'm glad we chose to wear pants and long sleeves, because the terrain was challenging. Besides the obvious vertical challenges, the scrub live oaks could have torn us up!
The seven stages were challenging to say the least, as we only completed two. The good thing about arrival was the wait time, in order to rest a bit. My two favorite stages were 2 and 6. Stage 2 was a two-gun use. From the start point, you moved forward to point 1, and engage targets about 250 meters, then transitioned to pistol ranging approximately 30 meters. Then moving rearward approximately 50 meters, re-engage the previous mentioned targets. Stage 6 was my favorite lane, as that is what I imagined a run and gun should be. From the start point, you advance 10 meters to a barricade, engaging targets about 75-100 meters. Then transition to pistol, engaging the target on the move. The final point has you transition back to rifle and engage those targets.
The final point and finish were truly gut check moments. Traveling from stage 6 to 7, you travel approximately 15-20 minutes, when you begin hearing gun fire. As we traveled, I realized we were traversing around the base of a hilltop. When you finally discover the last check-in, you have a nice incline and nearly gassed. The Range Officer informs us we'll climb up the hill, which appeared to be at least a 45-degree ascent, travelling at least 50 yards. Unfortunately, my son's weapon had five malfunctions which led to our time expiration. Coming off the final point, we see the "FINISH" sign. However, that was just a mind **** game, because we had at least another mile to the actual finish, lol.
Overall, I would highly recommend if you would like a challenge. I believed my shooting skills were good. I found out other wise and will work to improve on them. I'll do that by working drills and positions. You might also try these links, which I believe may be helpful.
Modern Tactical Shooting
Green Ops
The seven stages were challenging to say the least, as we only completed two. The good thing about arrival was the wait time, in order to rest a bit. My two favorite stages were 2 and 6. Stage 2 was a two-gun use. From the start point, you moved forward to point 1, and engage targets about 250 meters, then transitioned to pistol ranging approximately 30 meters. Then moving rearward approximately 50 meters, re-engage the previous mentioned targets. Stage 6 was my favorite lane, as that is what I imagined a run and gun should be. From the start point, you advance 10 meters to a barricade, engaging targets about 75-100 meters. Then transition to pistol, engaging the target on the move. The final point has you transition back to rifle and engage those targets.
The final point and finish were truly gut check moments. Traveling from stage 6 to 7, you travel approximately 15-20 minutes, when you begin hearing gun fire. As we traveled, I realized we were traversing around the base of a hilltop. When you finally discover the last check-in, you have a nice incline and nearly gassed. The Range Officer informs us we'll climb up the hill, which appeared to be at least a 45-degree ascent, travelling at least 50 yards. Unfortunately, my son's weapon had five malfunctions which led to our time expiration. Coming off the final point, we see the "FINISH" sign. However, that was just a mind **** game, because we had at least another mile to the actual finish, lol.
Overall, I would highly recommend if you would like a challenge. I believed my shooting skills were good. I found out other wise and will work to improve on them. I'll do that by working drills and positions. You might also try these links, which I believe may be helpful.
Modern Tactical Shooting
Green Ops
Love to hear that!
R&G will test both you and your equipment for sure.
Glad you tried it.
R&G will test both you and your equipment for sure.
Glad you tried it.
jrb2019 said:
I was on the "series" course. Enjoyed the match and stayed for the results. Overall, I thought the match ran smoothly. Challenging stages, but the wind definitely made the longer rifle stages difficult. I hope they post results with stage breakdowns again. Finished 6th overall as announced at the awards…*****updated to say the published results show me in 4th place, but the actual score indicates I would be 3rd. I really don't want to b****, but I'm 3 for 3 with OED and scoring problems. Totally understand the complexity of these, but scoring integrity has to get fixed. Otherwise why keep score?***
I threw this out a while back, but if anyone ever wants to test all their gear, run some trails, and shoot, I'm happy to have you out to my place. Near Gatesville.
It would be a blast to do a little Texags shoot. Even if it was just renting a bay out at a gun range and shooting some drills I think it would be alot of fun. If people are interested I'd be willing to help get things going, I don't own enough land to host unfortunately but I'd be glad to help organize something.
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