Parkland. And he didn't wait. He hid.
I mean, Columbine was the worst/first incident. Police could hear shooting, but stayed outside and just had a perimeter. They weren't trained on what to do for these things. Ever since they've supposedly been taught that setting up a perimeter is not their first priority. But I don't know.Ogre09 said:
Some officers were shot attempting to stop him.
Was it Sandy Hook where the campus officer waited outside?
Agree that the poster is discussing mitigation of the symptom and not the causes. Respectfully disagree with the characterization of shallow thinking. When you have a problem that is complex and difficult to contain, it is naive to think you can disregard mitigation of symptoms.aggielatoo said:Focusing on the symptom instead of the cause. Shallow thinking.Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:
A Guardian School is where a lot of the teachers and administrators are armed with AR-15s and pistols. They receive training a couple times a year from highly skilled instructors for these very scenarios while training with live rounds. Nobody but the people in the Guardian program know who is armed and they have a plan of action for when something like this takes place.
Having an armed presence on campus to be able to respond instantly, instead of calling in to a rural county deputy and waiting for them to make it to the school from 10 miles away could make all the difference in the world.
My dad was BP in Brackettville (among other places), not far from Uvalde, and always said BORTAC were bad MoFos.P.U.T.U said:
BORTAC does training missions with US SOF so they could probably hold their own in CQC.
JSKolache said:Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.Quote:
Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
AgLA06 said:
Because it's his job and there are other options.
I'm not gonna lie, it would be difficult to constantly be emersed in other peoples issues. I can see why they'd need some down time but I don't know this field either.tandy miller said:JSKolache said:Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.Quote:
Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
Supposedly he also had on armor. Where an 18-yo kid gets that kinda cash, or credit, generates all kinds of questions, unless he stole the grandmother's credit card and that partially explains why he attacked her first, but it seems to me that there was a lot of planning and time invested in this, and surely someone had to see signs that this individual was "not right" and needed an intervention of some sort.Lance in Round Mountain said:(from the newspaper) The gunman legally purchased two rifles in the days following his 18th birthday, authorities said. Officials said they recovered the two AR-15 style rifles from the scene. The gunman, who had attended Uvalde High School, purchased one of the rifles from a federally licensed gun store on May 17, the day after his 18th birthday, according to authorities and law enforcement officials.tandy miller said:
Have they released who the guns belonged to? That kid apparently had been posting guns on is social media, and one of them is like a $3k daniel defense w/ eotech. Where does a kid that age get that kind of money?
A day later, on May 18, the gunman purchased 375 rounds of ammunition. And on May 20, he purchased the second rifle.
AGSPORTSFAN07 said:I'm not gonna lie, it would be difficult to constantly be emersed in other peoples issues. I can see why they'd need some down time but I don't know this field either.tandy miller said:JSKolache said:Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.Quote:
Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
From what I've read, he had the tactical vest but no plates. Just extra pockets for magazines.oldyeller said:Supposedly he also had on armor. Where an 18-yo kid gets that kinda cash, or credit, generates all kinds of questions, unless he stole the grandmother's credit card and that partially explains why he attacked her first, but it seems to me that there was a lot of planning and time invested in this, and surely someone had to see signs that this individual was "not right" and needed an intervention of some sort.Lance in Round Mountain said:(from the newspaper) The gunman legally purchased two rifles in the days following his 18th birthday, authorities said. Officials said they recovered the two AR-15 style rifles from the scene. The gunman, who had attended Uvalde High School, purchased one of the rifles from a federally licensed gun store on May 17, the day after his 18th birthday, according to authorities and law enforcement officials.tandy miller said:
Have they released who the guns belonged to? That kid apparently had been posting guns on is social media, and one of them is like a $3k daniel defense w/ eotech. Where does a kid that age get that kind of money?
A day later, on May 18, the gunman purchased 375 rounds of ammunition. And on May 20, he purchased the second rifle.
I'm from Uvalde and went to Robb back in the 90's. I had a wonderful childhood and that place holds a lot of special memories for me. When I first heard the news yesterday I was honestly a bit numb to it. My dad texted me about a campus shooting and I didn't really comprehend the gravity of it at first. When I watched Abbot's press conference and seeing my hometown at the top of every news outlet it hit me how big this was. Seeing reporters standing in front of the lawn where I used to play tag and touch football, waiting for my mom to pick me up. It's about as close to home as it gets. I just think about my experience there and how that was a time of innocence for me. And now I see my home town and elementary school on CNN and ABC and the New York Times. And how that place will forever be attached to this tragedy. I think about those poor kids. The ones that didn't make it and the ones that did. How they will be scarred forever. It's all so surreal. And it was all for nothing.Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:
You always hear about these things and think "what an awful, senseless tragedy, but this could never happen in the little farming community I live in" then go about your day.
It hits a lot closer to home when it happens an hour from where you grew up and you have friends who live there with elementary aged children. Praying hard for the town of Uvalde, hoping the good Lord will lay his healing hands on the people in town and help close up the wounds this has caused in the community.
After today, I have made the decision that my children will only attend a Guardian School where teachers and administrators are armed. Cowards like the one from today will not go somewhere where there will be armed opposition, they only go where the people are defenseless.
Pray for Uvalde. Pray hard.
tandy miller said:AGSPORTSFAN07 said:I'm not gonna lie, it would be difficult to constantly be emersed in other peoples issues. I can see why they'd need some down time but I don't know this field either.tandy miller said:JSKolache said:Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.Quote:
Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
I know it better than I wish I did. Affordable access to mental health providers is a huge problem. Out of pocket costs for a single psychiatrist visit are $250+ per appointment. Not to mention the cost of meds, particularly if a generic is not available.
My doc put me on something a few yrs ago, and when I went to pick it up it was $473… with ins.
Huge respect for this response. My respect knows no bounds. Yet, how do we handle those kids with " who are stuck with hard to get expensive meds" problem?BCO07 said:tandy miller said:AGSPORTSFAN07 said:I'm not gonna lie, it would be difficult to constantly be emersed in other peoples issues. I can see why they'd need some down time but I don't know this field either.tandy miller said:JSKolache said:Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.Quote:
Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
I know it better than I wish I did. Affordable access to mental health providers is a huge problem. Out of pocket costs for a single psychiatrist visit are $250+ per appointment. Not to mention the cost of meds, particularly if a generic is not available.
My doc put me on something a few yrs ago, and when I went to pick it up it was $473… with ins.
I'm family med and a full 30% of my practice involves psych. I see new patients cash for around $120 and follow ups around $60. I can see you tomorrow. There tons of affordable meds on the market. Certainly there are some people who are stuck with hard to get expensive meds, but that's the minority. I handle the vast majority of psych issues and so should most family docs that are worth a damn.
Obviously every situation is different, but most of this stuff could be handled. I can tell you right now that there are kids in our local schools that people are worried about and they have never darkened my door
Eta: access is a much bigger issue in cities where docs are pushed to over schedule like crazy, in small towns I'm able to control my schedule and if some needs to be seen I make it happen. A lot of the issue is that people know who the potential trouble kids are and nobody says anything. My wife (teacher) has brought up kids in the past and was told be quiet
P.U.T.U said:
So what is SOP for police now? After Parkland you would think one of those 3 cops would stay outside and 2 would go in since clearing rooms with 1 person is less than ideal. I thought one of the regular cops would have gone in with the BORTAC dude
htownag10 said:
See, what I'm reading is that he confronted him but never engaged him with gunfire. Then the shooter walked in the back door
BCO07 said:tandy miller said:AGSPORTSFAN07 said:I'm not gonna lie, it would be difficult to constantly be emersed in other peoples issues. I can see why they'd need some down time but I don't know this field either.tandy miller said:JSKolache said:Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.Quote:
Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
I know it better than I wish I did. Affordable access to mental health providers is a huge problem. Out of pocket costs for a single psychiatrist visit are $250+ per appointment. Not to mention the cost of meds, particularly if a generic is not available.
My doc put me on something a few yrs ago, and when I went to pick it up it was $473… with ins.
I'm family med and a full 30% of my practice involves psych. I see new patients cash for around $120 and follow ups around $60. I can see you tomorrow. There tons of affordable meds on the market. Certainly there are some people who are stuck with hard to get expensive meds, but that's the minority. I handle the vast majority of psych issues and so should most family docs that are worth a damn.
Obviously every situation is different, but most of this stuff could be handled. I can tell you right now that there are kids in our local schools that people are worried about and they have never darkened my door
Eta: access is a much bigger issue in cities where docs are pushed to over schedule like crazy, in small towns I'm able to control my schedule and if some needs to be seen I make it happen. A lot of the issue is that people know who the potential trouble kids are and nobody says anything. My wife (teacher) has brought up kids in the past and was told be quiet