Outdoors
Sponsored by

Uvalde shoot shooting

65,759 Views | 527 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by B-1 83
jellycheese
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Parkland. And he didn't wait. He hid.
1990Hullaballoo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The newer schools in the district are of a better design. There are others in the district just like this one though.
P.U.T.U
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
So what is SOP for police now? After Parkland you would think one of those 3 cops would stay outside and 2 would go in since clearing rooms with 1 person is less than ideal. I thought one of the regular cops would have gone in with the BORTAC dude
jellycheese
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Don't know the SOPs. But no officer should be waiting for back up or partners. There's kids dying. Go stop it or die trying.

This is not like serving a warrant or responding to a domestic dispute.
bigtruckguy3500
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Ogre09 said:

Some officers were shot attempting to stop him.

Was it Sandy Hook where the campus officer waited outside?


I mean, Columbine was the worst/first incident. Police could hear shooting, but stayed outside and just had a perimeter. They weren't trained on what to do for these things. Ever since they've supposedly been taught that setting up a perimeter is not their first priority. But I don't know.
Ogre09
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I remember hearing after Parkland the strategy is to aggressively confront and stop as fast as possible.
FTAG 2000
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
After columbine the SOP has always been to go in as quickly as possible and engage the shooter. Studies found many give up at the first sign of conflict.

But you don't sit back and let the ******* murder away.

In Parkland the chicken**** deputy hid behind his car until help arrived.
The Lost Hondo
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
aggielatoo said:

Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:

A Guardian School is where a lot of the teachers and administrators are armed with AR-15s and pistols. They receive training a couple times a year from highly skilled instructors for these very scenarios while training with live rounds. Nobody but the people in the Guardian program know who is armed and they have a plan of action for when something like this takes place.

Having an armed presence on campus to be able to respond instantly, instead of calling in to a rural county deputy and waiting for them to make it to the school from 10 miles away could make all the difference in the world.
Focusing on the symptom instead of the cause. Shallow thinking.
Agree that the poster is discussing mitigation of the symptom and not the causes. Respectfully disagree with the characterization of shallow thinking. When you have a problem that is complex and difficult to contain, it is naive to think you can disregard mitigation of symptoms.

You can argue that a defensive solution is not a complete solution, but you have to acknowledge that it is essential - unless you have a solid plan to quickly contain and correct all causes at play here.
jakeaggie84
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I knew someone who worked at a zoo. they had strategically placed secured weapons and people trained to use them in case of an animal issue.

Seems like this should/could be done at schools

El Chupacabra
How long do you want to ignore this user?
P.U.T.U said:

BORTAC does training missions with US SOF so they could probably hold their own in CQC.
My dad was BP in Brackettville (among other places), not far from Uvalde, and always said BORTAC were bad MoFos.
tandy miller
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
JSKolache said:

Quote:



Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.



This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
FJB
AgLA06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Because it's his job and there are other options.
tandy miller
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AgLA06 said:

Because it's his job and there are other options.


Other options as in providers?
FJB
AgLA06
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
As in I didn't want to spell psychiatrist
AGSPORTSFAN07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
tandy miller said:

JSKolache said:

Quote:



Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.



This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
I'm not gonna lie, it would be difficult to constantly be emersed in other peoples issues. I can see why they'd need some down time but I don't know this field either.
oldyeller
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Lance in Round Mountain said:

tandy miller said:

Have they released who the guns belonged to? That kid apparently had been posting guns on is social media, and one of them is like a $3k daniel defense w/ eotech. Where does a kid that age get that kind of money?
(from the newspaper) The gunman legally purchased two rifles in the days following his 18th birthday, authorities said. Officials said they recovered the two AR-15 style rifles from the scene. The gunman, who had attended Uvalde High School, purchased one of the rifles from a federally licensed gun store on May 17, the day after his 18th birthday, according to authorities and law enforcement officials.

A day later, on May 18, the gunman purchased 375 rounds of ammunition. And on May 20, he purchased the second rifle.
Supposedly he also had on armor. Where an 18-yo kid gets that kinda cash, or credit, generates all kinds of questions, unless he stole the grandmother's credit card and that partially explains why he attacked her first, but it seems to me that there was a lot of planning and time invested in this, and surely someone had to see signs that this individual was "not right" and needed an intervention of some sort.
tandy miller
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AGSPORTSFAN07 said:

tandy miller said:

JSKolache said:

Quote:



Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.



This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
I'm not gonna lie, it would be difficult to constantly be emersed in other peoples issues. I can see why they'd need some down time but I don't know this field either.


I know it better than I wish I did. Affordable access to mental health providers is a huge problem. Out of pocket costs for a single psychiatrist visit are $250+ per appointment. Not to mention the cost of meds, particularly if a generic is not available.

My doc put me on something a few yrs ago, and when I went to pick it up it was $473… with ins.
FJB
DeadCiv
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
oldyeller said:

Lance in Round Mountain said:

tandy miller said:

Have they released who the guns belonged to? That kid apparently had been posting guns on is social media, and one of them is like a $3k daniel defense w/ eotech. Where does a kid that age get that kind of money?
(from the newspaper) The gunman legally purchased two rifles in the days following his 18th birthday, authorities said. Officials said they recovered the two AR-15 style rifles from the scene. The gunman, who had attended Uvalde High School, purchased one of the rifles from a federally licensed gun store on May 17, the day after his 18th birthday, according to authorities and law enforcement officials.

A day later, on May 18, the gunman purchased 375 rounds of ammunition. And on May 20, he purchased the second rifle.
Supposedly he also had on armor. Where an 18-yo kid gets that kinda cash, or credit, generates all kinds of questions, unless he stole the grandmother's credit card and that partially explains why he attacked her first, but it seems to me that there was a lot of planning and time invested in this, and surely someone had to see signs that this individual was "not right" and needed an intervention of some sort.
From what I've read, he had the tactical vest but no plates. Just extra pockets for magazines.
OldShadeOfBlue
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:

You always hear about these things and think "what an awful, senseless tragedy, but this could never happen in the little farming community I live in" then go about your day.

It hits a lot closer to home when it happens an hour from where you grew up and you have friends who live there with elementary aged children. Praying hard for the town of Uvalde, hoping the good Lord will lay his healing hands on the people in town and help close up the wounds this has caused in the community.

After today, I have made the decision that my children will only attend a Guardian School where teachers and administrators are armed. Cowards like the one from today will not go somewhere where there will be armed opposition, they only go where the people are defenseless.

Pray for Uvalde. Pray hard.
I'm from Uvalde and went to Robb back in the 90's. I had a wonderful childhood and that place holds a lot of special memories for me. When I first heard the news yesterday I was honestly a bit numb to it. My dad texted me about a campus shooting and I didn't really comprehend the gravity of it at first. When I watched Abbot's press conference and seeing my hometown at the top of every news outlet it hit me how big this was. Seeing reporters standing in front of the lawn where I used to play tag and touch football, waiting for my mom to pick me up. It's about as close to home as it gets. I just think about my experience there and how that was a time of innocence for me. And now I see my home town and elementary school on CNN and ABC and the New York Times. And how that place will forever be attached to this tragedy. I think about those poor kids. The ones that didn't make it and the ones that did. How they will be scarred forever. It's all so surreal. And it was all for nothing.
OSOB
DeadCiv
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
"At the school was at least one armed law enforcement officer from the Uvalde school district. That officer exchanged gunfire with the gunman, but the gunman was able to get past the officer, the official said, citing the initial reports." - CNN

A guardian was there (pending corroboration). Yet 19 children are dead.
agsalaska
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Sounds like he lost. He probably had his duty pistol and was immediately confronted with a psycho and an AR15.

That's an easy fight to lose.
Josepi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I've seen some conflicting stories out there, so here is what happened as best I can tell. Note that this is likely to change as more facts and details emerge.

The killer wrecked his truck outside the school, got out with one rifle and headed towards the school. He left his second rifle in the truck. Police received a call from someone who saw a man with a gun headed towards the school. The school officer engaged him before he got into the school, and shots were exchanged, however, the killer was able to get though one of the outside facing doors at the rear of the school and into a classroom. He then barricaded himself in the classroom, and exchanged fire with officers outside the school. Unfortunately, there seems to have been a class in the room, and he murdered the children and teachers in that room. From best I can tell, he did not ever leave that room. Police were evacuating students and teachers from other rooms while the border patrol agent and two other officers got into the room from behind the killer and took him out. It appears the BP agent was hit during this exchange, but will be fine. The shooter had a tactical vest on, but no plates.

Notes: I've read that he moved from one classroom into another, but that all of the slain children and teachers were found in one room. I've also read that the BP was alone when he took out the shooter, and I've read he was with other officers, so not sure here.
DeadCiv
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
That's pretty much what I'm getting as well.

Thank you for your synopsis.

BCO07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
tandy miller said:

AGSPORTSFAN07 said:

tandy miller said:

JSKolache said:

Quote:



Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.



This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
I'm not gonna lie, it would be difficult to constantly be emersed in other peoples issues. I can see why they'd need some down time but I don't know this field either.


I know it better than I wish I did. Affordable access to mental health providers is a huge problem. Out of pocket costs for a single psychiatrist visit are $250+ per appointment. Not to mention the cost of meds, particularly if a generic is not available.

My doc put me on something a few yrs ago, and when I went to pick it up it was $473… with ins.


I'm family med and a full 30% of my practice involves psych. I see new patients cash for around $120 and follow ups around $60. I can see you tomorrow. There tons of affordable meds on the market. Certainly there are some people who are stuck with hard to get expensive meds, but that's the minority. I handle the vast majority of psych issues and so should most family docs that are worth a damn.

Obviously every situation is different, but most of this stuff could be handled. I can tell you right now that there are kids in our local schools that people are worried about and they have never darkened my door

Eta: access is a much bigger issue in cities where docs are pushed to over schedule like crazy, in small towns I'm able to control my schedule and if some needs to be seen I make it happen. A lot of the issue is that people know who the potential trouble kids are and nobody says anything. My wife (teacher) has brought up kids in the past and was told be quiet
BCO07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
When we were in college station isd, my kid had another student with significant explosive anger issues. He throw chairs accross the room regularly. The schools solution was to remove all the chairs from the classroom. There is a significant issue with how schools manage obvious problems
DeadCiv
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BCO07 said:

tandy miller said:

AGSPORTSFAN07 said:

tandy miller said:

JSKolache said:

Quote:



Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.



This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
I'm not gonna lie, it would be difficult to constantly be emersed in other peoples issues. I can see why they'd need some down time but I don't know this field either.


I know it better than I wish I did. Affordable access to mental health providers is a huge problem. Out of pocket costs for a single psychiatrist visit are $250+ per appointment. Not to mention the cost of meds, particularly if a generic is not available.

My doc put me on something a few yrs ago, and when I went to pick it up it was $473… with ins.


I'm family med and a full 30% of my practice involves psych. I see new patients cash for around $120 and follow ups around $60. I can see you tomorrow. There tons of affordable meds on the market. Certainly there are some people who are stuck with hard to get expensive meds, but that's the minority. I handle the vast majority of psych issues and so should most family docs that are worth a damn.

Obviously every situation is different, but most of this stuff could be handled. I can tell you right now that there are kids in our local schools that people are worried about and they have never darkened my door

Eta: access is a much bigger issue in cities where docs are pushed to over schedule like crazy, in small towns I'm able to control my schedule and if some needs to be seen I make it happen. A lot of the issue is that people know who the potential trouble kids are and nobody says anything. My wife (teacher) has brought up kids in the past and was told be quiet
Huge respect for this response. My respect knows no bounds. Yet, how do we handle those kids with " who are stuck with hard to get expensive meds" problem?
FirefightAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
P.U.T.U said:

So what is SOP for police now? After Parkland you would think one of those 3 cops would stay outside and 2 would go in since clearing rooms with 1 person is less than ideal. I thought one of the regular cops would have gone in with the BORTAC dude


For a few years now it's been hit the ground running, no delay. No set up of teams or waiting for swat. If you're 1st on scene amd solo you confront the shooter, as mentioned every second is a second to fire rounds. -TacMedic work with SWAT and active shooter situations
BCO07
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Most of the time those kids are pushed to the mhmr system, which admittedly is a disaster in its own right due to it being a government program, but they are frequently able to get things taken care of from a med standpoint
Caesar4
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Maybe this was an instance, from today in Richardson, where a tragedy was prevented:

https://bnonews.com/index.php/2022/05/student-caught-with-ak-47-rifle-texas-high-school/
htownag10
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
See, what I'm reading is that he confronted him but never engaged him with gunfire. Then the shooter walked in the back door
Playtuagain
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Well I believe distancing ourselves from God is the best source of evil, so I suppose that evil in that sense is a symptom. However, my question to the other poster was regarding what he thought the cause was. What do you think the underlying cause is?
Josepi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
htownag10 said:

See, what I'm reading is that he confronted him but never engaged him with gunfire. Then the shooter walked in the back door


I read a first hand statement from a kid who was waiting outside to get a snow cone with her class. They heard gunfire outside, and their teacher hurried them into a classroom for safety.

The AP is also reporting this:
He then exchanged fire with a school district security officer, ran inside and fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building. All three law enforcement officers were injured.

Again, things change as details emerge, but as of now all are reporting that he exchanged fire outside of the school before entering.
Naveronski
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
You're a pretty awful person.


agsalaska
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Yea whether or not that guy ever posts again will say a lot about this website.
tandy miller
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
BCO07 said:

tandy miller said:

AGSPORTSFAN07 said:

tandy miller said:

JSKolache said:

Quote:



Also, we've got a mental health crisis in this country. Unfortunately we've also got a huge deficit of mental health providers. So simply throwing money at it will not easily increase access to mental health resources. And simply going to the ER is not a solution - trust me, too many people think the ER will be able to fix mental health issues.
Agree completely. There always been a shortage of mental health providers, which is why back in the day the truly crazy people were locked up in institutions. Most of those facilities don't exist anymore. Decisions were made based on compassion or optics or whatever to let psychotics live normal lives in society; yet we all look around surprised, when after many warning signs, some of the most unstable blast away at innocent strangers.



This is a huge problem. My psychiatrist is booking 3 months out for new patients, but only works 28 hours a week… if his intention is truly to help people, why limit hours? You could be depriving someone medication that could keep them from murdering a bunch of people in a [insert mental disorder] induced psychosis
I'm not gonna lie, it would be difficult to constantly be emersed in other peoples issues. I can see why they'd need some down time but I don't know this field either.


I know it better than I wish I did. Affordable access to mental health providers is a huge problem. Out of pocket costs for a single psychiatrist visit are $250+ per appointment. Not to mention the cost of meds, particularly if a generic is not available.

My doc put me on something a few yrs ago, and when I went to pick it up it was $473… with ins.


I'm family med and a full 30% of my practice involves psych. I see new patients cash for around $120 and follow ups around $60. I can see you tomorrow. There tons of affordable meds on the market. Certainly there are some people who are stuck with hard to get expensive meds, but that's the minority. I handle the vast majority of psych issues and so should most family docs that are worth a damn.

Obviously every situation is different, but most of this stuff could be handled. I can tell you right now that there are kids in our local schools that people are worried about and they have never darkened my door

Eta: access is a much bigger issue in cities where docs are pushed to over schedule like crazy, in small towns I'm able to control my schedule and if some needs to be seen I make it happen. A lot of the issue is that people know who the potential trouble kids are and nobody says anything. My wife (teacher) has brought up kids in the past and was told be quiet


Every PCP I've gone to seemed like they were throwing darts at a board. They'd do stuff that didn't make sense to me, like prescribing clonazepam to someone taking adderall and tell them to take both at the same time.

I've been on 20+ psych meds before I landed on one that works. If it took me 20 tries to get something correct at my job I'd get fired. But then again I suppose flipping burgers isn't as hard as being a doctor
FJB
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.