Took my first lesson over the weekend. While I definitely wasn't that good, I really enjoyed it. With that said, I'd like to buy a gun before my next lesson. I saw a similar thread from a few weeks ago, but I think I have enough different questions to warrant a new thread. Here's what I think I know so far

• Looking at 12 gauge O/U shotguns
• Budget - I'd prefer to keep it under $1400/1500, but not ruling out ones just over that.
• This will most likely be strictly for clays (nothing out in the field)
• I'm guessing that at most I'd only be doing charity tournaments and time at the ranges
• I don't own anything now... I rented one for my lesson.
• From the previous thread (and online searches), I have my eye on these two.

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/Winchester-Model-101-Ultimate-Field-OverUnder-Shotgun
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/shotguns/weatherby-orion-sporting-shotgun/p/1507502

What I don't know or would like more feedback on

• Thoughts on the above two guns?
• What other guns should I consider based on the above criteria?
• What is the benefit of the longer barrel? The Winchester is 28" and the Weatherby is 30". Is the longer barrel worth the extra weight?
• The Weatherby has an adjustable comb? How important is that?
• The Weatherby doesn't appear to be in stock anywhere in Houston (or at least at the major stores). How risky is it to buy one via shipping to an FFL dealer without really having 'tried it on' first?
• Any other features I should be looking for in that price range (or slightly higher)?

Bottom line... I don't feel like I need a high end gun for this, but since I'm only planning on buying one (not upgrade later) I don't mind moving up past entry level pricing.

Thanks in advance for all the input & suggestions!

Thoughts on the above two guns?

I'd go with the Weatherby. I owned one a while back and sold it to Bam02. Mine didn't have the adjustable comb, but the gun itself was great. Compared favorably to my Silver Pigeon which it is cloned off of

What other guns should I consider based on the above criteria?

Maybe a CZ

What is the benefit of the longer barrel? The Winchester is 28" and the Weatherby is 30". Is the longer barrel worth the extra weight?

Longer sight plane, smoother swing. A 30" O/U is the same length as a 28" semi. I prefer 30 to 28

The Weatherby has an adjustable comb? How important is that?

I'll never shoot an O/U without one now that I have it.

The Weatherby doesn't appear to be in stock anywhere in Houston (or at least at the major stores). How risky is it to buy one via shipping to an FFL dealer without really having 'tried it on' first?

EyeGuy/Texian has ordered for people on here. Just make sure the model # is correct. I sent my buddy his way and he didn't get the adjustable comb.

Any other features I should be looking for in that price range (or slightly higher)?

Slightly higher price point is no man's land unless you go used. The sporting versions of a Silver Pigeon or a Browning 725 are going to run more than a grand over your budget. A Citori CX can be had for closer to 2K and is probably the closest to your budget for a purpose made clays gun

The Weatherby Orion is on sale on guns.com. $850

https://www.guns.com/firearms/shotguns/over-under/weatherby-orion-i-12-ga-2-rounds-28-barrel-new?p=430818

^
That's not the sporting model OP is looking for

Which is what happened with Fido's friend... searched hard for it, and at the time, was lucky to find even the regular one. Only sporting available right now is in 20ga

I love the Orion, btw, and think it's the nicest of the more than entry level O/Us. That being said, the Winchester is a good gun.

Also, don't be afraid to look at the upper end CZs... I think a used BRNO may be something to look at. Additionally, in regards to used, the Ruger Red Label. Though, on the Red Label, you'll need to be careful as some had problems.

You may have noticed in your searching. There are $1000 o/u's and then it pretty much jumps to $2000. Not a whole lot in between.

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/cz-teal-overunder-shotgun

Decent for the money. It's basically the Redhead Premier with a black receiver.

We shot our company event this past Friday. The range had that same loaner Winchester's and 2 of the 3 in the two groups around mine failed to eject the bottom shell about 1/4 of the time. Could have been user error or maybe a super dirty action (neither of which I observed). Take it for what it's worth.

I have an orion and I love it.

This one:

You're right. My bad.

I made a recent purchase of a Weatherby Orion Sporting from EyeGuy based on his recommendation. It has been an excellent purchase.

If you are thinking that is the one, I can confirm it is a really great boom stick.

Go to Gordy and Sons and buy a 32 inch Beretta Sporting silver pigeon. It's in your price range and you'll own it for a lifetime.

Between the two, I would choose the Weatherby because it is a Sporting gun.

The Winchester 101 is a field gun, which is suited for hunting. A field gun (Winchester 101, 7 lbs) is lighter so it is easier to carry it in the field. A lighter gun results in more recoil, which is usually not a big deal since you don't shoot as many shots when hunting. My son in law has a Winchester 101 and he won't shoot clays with due to the recoil. Another important factor is the safety on a field shotgun is automatically reset after both barrels are fired and open the breech. When you reload, you have to turn the safety off before you fire the gun again. If you are shooting Sporting Clays, you will have to remember to turn off the safety every time you reload. I've seen many people forget to do this and we have had to rethrow the targets. The safety on a Sporting shotgun is manual. I never turn my safety on when shooting clays, so it is never an issue.

A sporting shotgun weighs more than a field shotgun, usually 8 to 9 lbs, which reduces recoil. My sporting shotgun weighs 8lbs 3oz. The Weatherby weighs 7.5 lbs, which is a little light for me, but is probably ok. Recoil can be reduced by shooting a slower shell, such as 1150 fps vs 1300 fps, and lighter weight of pellets such as 1oz vs 1-1/8 oz.

As mentioned above I bought an Orion from Fido98 and it's been a joy. I imagine it's all the clays gun I'll ever need.

Thanks for all the great feedback! I'm leaning towards the Weatherby Orion Sporting shotgun.

If you have any cross-eye dominance issues, you would be wise to look at something that is adjustable. Having that gun fit to you personally will mean 20-30% better shooting right off due to a better sight picture.

I have shot shotguns for over 30 years at flying targets in the field and at ranges. For a long time I was too cheap to look at adjustable guns and was about an 80% shooter. Now that I have one, I am around 95% including most longer field shots I used to miss. Oh my Lord what a difference a great sight picture makes!!!!

Do you mind me asking what adjustments you made to account for a cross dominance problem? I'm right handed and left eye dominant and don't think I could adjust a gun enough to compensate? Would love to hear I'm wrong.

I shoot about 1000 to 1500 rounds a month. I would recommend you find a Beretta or other sporting gun with at least a 30" barrel, 32" would be better. I guarantee if you like the sport you will absolutely shoot a lot and need a sporting gun. Caesar Guerinni makes good sporting guns check their website. You can find used ones as folks move up the gun ladder in shooting clays..

Good Shooting

Remember...focus on the bird not the barrel...by the way I am right handed and shoot left handed...no cross dominance problems with both eyes open...I DO NOT LOOK AT THE BARREL...a sure way to miss the bird.

Citori white lightning

Roger350 said:

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Do you mind me asking what adjustments you made to account for a cross dominance problem? I'm right handed and left eye dominant and don't think I could adjust a gun enough to compensate? Would love to hear I'm wrong.

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Sorry, I just saw this. I, much like you, used to think this way too as I have the exact same dominance issue. I recently bought a Browning A5 Ultimate that came with a number of stock shims (they go between the stock and the receiver). I was able to use one to offset the gun a decent amount both to the side and down, which raised the comb if memory serves and moved it over to align to my eye. Doing so, allows me to get the correct aim point now. It is like heaven is shining a light on my target for me all the sudden. I am making very long shots with regularity now.

I used to be a 75% shooter after many years of practice by instinct. I would say fitting the gun to me better has pushed me above 90% and some days I am closer to 95%. That's all anecdotal, but I actually have a sight picture now and can tell you why I am missing birds. I know what the shot is supposed to look like but never could see it that way. Now I do.

Where are you located? If you are near me, we can go shoot it and you can see for yourself. If not, I would recommend finding a local shotgun instructor and trying a fitting. Can't hurt. I tried my buddies A5 one day since it was new. Never even liked the look of his old ones. I was all over targets. He has shot with me since high school, which is a good 3o years. He was impressed with my uptake in breaking birds. I told him I wanted to buy his gun on the spot for $200 over what he paid. He said nope, find your own. So I did, luckily and we fit the shims just like his. Viola!

^ So much this ^.

I've learned to compensate for my cross dominance by using a mini red dot sight to allow me to shoot with both eyes open. Been doing that for over 10 years, and it works for me but is very unorthodox to say the least. The flaw in my system is that the red dot does give you a softer focus on the target almost like bead checking. I know with a proper gun fit you should never pay attention the the bead, and focus 100% on the target, but I've never had a gun I thought I could fit close enough due to the cross dominance. Without the red dot when I have both eyes open all I see is the left side of the gun and the POA and POI are wildly off.

So you used the supplied shims to shim the stock to the right (looking from the back) for additional cast off, allowing your left eye to get closer to the rib center line?

I'm in Rockwall which is 40 miles east of Dallas, but honestly I'd love to meet you regardless of where you live to try it out. I'm about to start a 12 week skeet league, so changing my gun right now is probably not the smartest thing to do, but perhaps we could arrange to meet at some point after that. My current gun has some shims, and I have a 20 ga I set up for my daughter to start shooting that has an adjustable comb and butt plate that might allow even more adjustment. Since she can't find time to really take up skeet I have contemplated trying to fit that one for exactly this purpose, but I keep holding out hope her schedule and interest level will align and she'll need that gun herself.

Another Weatherby Orion fan. Check with Barry Burdett or EyeGuy.

Yes, your second paragraph is correct. I've shot thousands of targets going back to when I used to be a member of the team and skeet club at A&M in early 90s, and this was a true game changer for me. I am in Round Rock. Happy to figure out a time that works. We could shoot skeet here locally or whatever you want to try it out. I will try to take some pics tomorrow AM.

I'll pile on another +1 for the Weatherby Orion. Bought it from EyeGuy about 3 years ago, it's been great.

I would be interested in seeing pics whenever you get around to it. I've seen pics and illustrations of "crossover" guns before that are much more extreme, like the stock is bent at almost a 90 degree angle aft of the wrist.

I'll have to look at my benelli shims again but it seems like I remember there were no true LH shims provided but the manual said to flip the RH shims front to back for LH orientation but there was something that did not actually allow me to do it. It's been a while.

I used tape on my shooting glasses for years for trap, but have found for skeet it really hindered me picking up the targets. The red dot is an imperfect solution, but it does allow me to shoot both eyes open and score better. In the field it made a huge difference on dove and longer shots on just about anything. It is a great bandaid for rushed imperfect gun mounts.

I'd love to swing down to Round Rock some Saturday or Sunday and shoot with you and try it out after my league, whenever is convenient for you. Thanks again for the replies.

I'll be in DFW later this week for a baseball tournament. Maybe we could meet at that place that is near 35e and 635? Maybe it is in Irving? Or if you have a preference I may be able to make something work. My email is my username at gmail.



Gmail.

When I look at the shims it doesn't look that drastic. Maybe it's the higher comb? All I know is that these were the highest offset shims and they make one helluva difference for me.

Thanks Aggieangler. I sent you an e-mail.