Would love the OB owls to weigh in on the current BSA program for young boys and if it would be something you still recommend doing. I went up through Webelos and loved it and think my boy (1st grade) would as well, but I admittedly haven't been following all too closely all of the stuff about assault, girls coming in, LGBT..., etc.

Is it an org that is still worth joining because your chapter is local, character-building is the same, still fun, etc?
Or should I steer clear and give my son other options?

Thank you for the comments and opinions.

My son just made Eagle.

You will read a variety of opinions.

It all depends on local leadership, not everyone is driven to be woke no matter what national is like.

Girls have been involved in scouting since the 90s in Venturing crews. Not new. A lot of that hoopla is just that.

Ursus is a good source of info, very involved.

I think that the Scouting program is still extremely valuable and a positive influence on my son. He loves it. And i love that he has interest in the activities and programs that the Scouts provide. No, I do not appreciate at all all of the changes that have occured at the top levels of the Boy Scouts of America. But at a local level, it's a valuable and rewarding program for kids who are interested in the outdoors.
Your particular experience, whether good or bad, will be tied to the overall make up of the troop and it's leaders. If you're all in on the political wokeness and gender stuff, you might just love the troop that is sponsored by the Austin/Houston/Dallas Unitarian Church, or some other left wing civic organization. If that's not your thing, there are many troops & leaders out there that teach and lead scouting from its original platform.
Focus on that part, the local leadership structure of troops within your area. Don't let all of the negative/detrimental actions taken at the very top levels of Boy Scouts, ruin what could be a great opportunity for your son at your local troops in your area.

Even though I am an Eagle Scout we are doing Trail Life USA right now. It is great for us, I love that we are involved with the host church and it's Christ centered. I would check it out for your area:
https://www.traillifeusa.com/find-a-troop/

88planoAg said:

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It all depends on local leadership.

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This. We have no wokeness in our troop and it remains a valuable experience for these boys.

There are numerous options other than supporting a group that joined the woke mob and removed boy from it's name.

88planoAg said:

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It all depends on local leadership

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Look and investigate closely. If you are in a bigger city find one that aligns with your vision.

We joined our local school troop and it was not a great match.

Less about fun and experiences and all about getting badges and advancing.

This norm resulted in the troop being lead by younger and younger scouts.

Lots of dads enabling the advancement frenzy and achievement.

End result was not a lot of fun for my guy and i totally understood.

The merit badge and rank protocols seemed to prepare you for success in some sort of ussr state agency vs what i remember as a scout.

Proceed with caution.

What you are describing it not a new phenomenon, there have been troops like this for decades. I used to advise people who were troop shopping to avoid troops that had high numbers of 14 year old eagles for exactly the reasons you described.

Get involved with your son's troop. That's the best way to be sure it's not a progressively poisoned group. We've got to start taking America back.

Good to hear that things are reasonable at local levels.

I Eagled back in my day, and I'd like for my son (or daughter) to do the same, but not if BSA/GSA has gone crazy.

Any thoughts on GSA? Same? Check at local levels?

Couple of young daughters, might be something we look into at some point.

ccard257 said:

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What you are describing it not a new phenomenon, there have been troops like this for decades. I used to advise people who were troop shopping to avoid troops that had high numbers of 14 year old eagles for exactly the reasons you described.

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Not that I agree with it, but one big reason parents and some troops push boys to get Eagle by 14 is because the hormones start kicking in pretty strong after that, and if they don't have it by then they drift off.

I just had my son bridge from Webelos to Scouts and am tag teaming with some other dads at Patrol Advisors. Scouts is what you make of it. Shop around. The Troop we are in is a good mix of keeping them on track to advance while also making sure they get a positive and fulfilling experience. Another nearby Troop is all about numbers and rapid advancement. We passed on that one.

FBG_Ag78 said:

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Get involved with your son's troop. That's the best way to be sure it's not a progressively poisoned group. We've got to start taking America back.

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Ditto on this. Best I can tell every time this discussion comes up is that about 3/4 of the folks badmouthing BSA were never going to be involved in it in the first place. Scouts is what you make of it. Our Troop doesn't dwell on the woke BS because we are busy trying the build men and leaders, and the way we do that is by having involved dads working hard to make that happen.

jayelbee said:

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I made eagle personally, and my young daughters are in Girl Scouts and they enjoy it ok, but they want to leave so they can do other things that they enjoy more. Most of the activities that they do seem incredibly dumb, but in retrospect, it seems a lot like how cub scouts was.

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My son is a Boy Scout and my daughter is a Girl Scout. My wife is thinking of moving my daughter to American Heritage Girls for similar reasons.

Lost my virginity in Boy Scouts

Two eagle sons and third working on his. Agree, scouts is not a drop off day care program for your son. Your involvement is key, and will be a lot of fun for both you and your son.

What "woke" things are you concerned about? Is it just taking the word "Boy" out of the name?

tandy miller said:

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Lost my virginity in Boy Scouts

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Not sure if this a head fake or what but pretty sure the OP was not expecting that one.

I'm a pretty new Scouter and am involved with a very large Pack in East Dallas. Just finished my field portion of Wood Badge at Philmont last week. In my not so humble opinion, all the grousing about "wokeness" in Scouts is from people that haven't been involved in decades and get all their information from Michael Savage who cherry-picks some random Troop in Rhode Island and make it into a big deal. The amount of flat out lies about what is happening would be comical if it wasn't so destructive.

The "wokeness" I've seen in Scouting is being kind to everyone (even those different from you), being patriotic (very countercultural), and respecting the rules (even if you don't agree with them all).

The biggest issues I've seen is that Scouts is following an archaic business model above the Troop/Pack level which is in huge need of reworking, has painfully poor technology, and is ignoring the physical fitness part (especially for adults).

This year, I'll have a 1st year Lion, a 3rd year Wolf (my den), and a 1st year girl Webelo. Strongly considering trying to see if we can get my special needs 13 year old into a Troop in an appropriate manner. Some might consider that being woke I guess.

Did you forget this important piece of advice?

I Eagled at 14, with no help from the adult leadership. My father wasn't even in the picture at the time I did it, he was working in another state. Our troop had a number of 17- and-18 year old eagles, and I was the first under 16 in more than 30 years. Since I left that troop, there has been one more eagle under 16 that I'm aware of in 17 years.

Then there was a troop I was a junior adult leader for while I was in high school. The adults signed off on everybody tying knots together, then camping, etc. It was churning out eagles at 16/17 like it was part of the dues. I left that troop in 2 months, and they'd have Eagle COH ceremonies for 6 kids at a time every month. Impossible not to get it.

It is 100% about your local troop. We actively avoided the garbage in the book. On the flip side, our troop won't allow girls. I never understood this. I figured it was about learning about the outdoors and doing the right thing. You know, the scout law. I kinda wanted it to be kid scouts because selling cookies is lame.

We tried a few years ago. I was never a scout and wanted my sons to have the opportunity. First meeting there was discussion about what to do if someone touches you inappropriately.

We got back in the pickup and my oldest said "dad, I know you want me to try this but I'm not interested "

That was our first and last experience with scouts. My father in law who is an Eagle Scout and I spend quite.a bit of time in the mountains camping with the boys. Honestly I'd rather we all go as a family and camp anyway.

Yes, Eagle Scout and still very involved. I did a stint as the District Commissioner for 3 years recently, and got pleasure (read that with sarcasm) of ushering in a number of changes. Each time, lots of grumbling. But, it also gave me 3 years to watch how various units work and don't work. When my son was ready to cross over from cubs, I made sure it was a good fit. We needed a unit with strong leadership. After 3 years as the DC, I wanted to "relax" and not suddenly find myself being the scoutmaster. I am Assistant SM. I sit on the District/Council Risk Management and Conservation Committees. I am now on the rotation as one of the Council's Wilderness First Aid instructors. Before summer camp, I'm helping with the pre-camp safety inspections. As an Arborist, I'm currently working on tree safety assessments on all our council camps. Currently summer camp, on about 20 minutes notice I ended up having to teach Forestry, Soil and Water Conservation, and Fish and Wildlife Management merit badges the entire week. Next month I am becoming a Leave No Trace Trainer (WB ticket item.....ironic since I can teach the class). In October, my troop is doing a search and rescue scenario. Other leaders in our troop are pretty much the Council's go to for all things shooting (our troop does a LOT) and climbing.....On top of all of that, I got to spend a week at Philmont a month ago as the Visiting Forester. I spent a week teaching 965 scouts about forest management, wildfire, and fire ecology. All volunteer

But that is what I was looking for. Yes I stay incredibly busy, while staying very busy with a job with virtually no set schedule (hell I spent a good chunk of last night making sure feral hogs don't get let out of trap, and will be headed back out there after I finish this post). My kid has absolutely loved it, and he crossed over just as Covid hit. He literally got one meeting with the troop before covid restrictions kicked in. But the troop leadership was strong, and in the last 1.5 years is one of the few units to flourish. But again, what your get gets out of it is proportional to what you are willing to do behind the scenes.

Off to hangout with pigs

jtp01 said:

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We tried a few years ago. I was never a scout and wanted my sons to have the opportunity. First meeting there was discussion about what to do if someone touches you inappropriately.

We got back in the pickup and my oldest said "dad, I know you want me to try this but I'm not interested "

That was our first and last experience with scouts. My father in law who is an Eagle Scout and I spend quite.a bit of time in the mountains camping with the boys. Honestly I'd rather we all go as a family and camp anyway.

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I wouldn't have joined that troop either.

Both units I have been associated with have told parents they need to be doing the YPT at home because that is a parent responsibility. Sure, we can talk about policy and implementation at meetings, but what you describe sounds like it was way beyond that . Sounds like you visited a Troop run by a group of Karens who are focused on rules instead of personal growth for the Scouts.

tandy miller said:

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Lost my virginity in Boy Scouts

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I hope that scout master is in jail.

You need to write a book about your most interesting days/nights on the job.

Ol Jock 99 said:

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I'm a pretty new Scouter and am involved with a very large Pack in East Dallas. Just finished my field portion of Wood Badge at Philmont last week. In my not so humble opinion, all the grousing about "wokeness" in Scouts is from people that haven't been involved in decades and get all their information from Michael Savage who cherry-picks some random Troop in Rhode Island and make it into a big deal. The amount of flat out lies about what is happening would be comical if it wasn't so destructive.

The "wokeness" I've seen in Scouting is being kind to everyone (even those different from you), being patriotic (very countercultural), and respecting the rules (even if you don't agree with them all).

The biggest issues I've seen is that Scouts is following an archaic business model above the Troop/Pack level which is in huge need of reworking, has painfully poor technology, and is ignoring the physical fitness part (especially for adults).

This year, I'll have a 1st year Lion, a 3rd year Wolf (my den), and a 1st year girl Webelo. Strongly considering trying to see if we can get my special needs 13 year old into a Troop in an appropriate manner. Some might consider that being woke I guess.

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You got this right. The best thing that can come from the bankruptcy is an audit of staffing, policy, and procedure. The organization looks terribly bloated and outdated to me.

Lol, I get that quite a bit. This one took a weird turn this morning. Someone shot 2 of the pigs that my contractors would get paid for at the processor......but that is one thing I typically love about my job, variety. This past week....pigs, tree safety assessments, chemical training, conduct an encroachments briefing, more pigs, and start prepping for a bird conservation presentation in Nashville next month.

I say all this, my springboard professionally was the Scouts. It allowed me to be a shooting sports instructor for 4 summers (hell I went through the NRA instructor courses when I was 16, and beat all the adults on shooting and the tests). Then I was the Nature/Ecology Area Director for 2 summers (public speaking skills and nature based outreach). Then did the bear work at Philmont for 4 seasons (Policy enforcement, bear human interactions/attacks, mapping, more public speaking, conflict resolution, diverse groups). Then did the Fire Rehab work in 02/03 at Philmont (fire ecology, high level chainsaw certification and experience, Soil conservation, plant establishment, Watershed Management, wildland firefighter cert (red card) and a bunch of random certs related to that).

Hell, gave me a bit of a working "vacation" back in July working for a week at Philmont.

I got a lot of my work ethics working at scout camps. There's a reason I am rarely ever outworked on pretty much any project.

Funny you should mention the technology. They started outsourcing their technology work. Since then, they have perfected the "we are simplifying ____", 6 weeks later one of my tech volunteers ends up having to try and fix their contracted software.

I don't see how "wokeness" could show itself at the cub scout level. It's been a long while but I'm sure cub scouts is still just prompts to do something new/different when you meet to expand kid's horizon. As in, a trip to the fire station or a game of freeze tag can't be a "woke" activity.

When it comes time for Boy Scouts - find a boy led troop. That is key. If the Troop is "woke" because that is the priority of the 11-18 year olds then so be it, thats kind of the point.

Timber08 said:

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If the Troop is "woke" because that is the priority of the 11-18 year olds then so be it, thats kind of the point.

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No it's not. Scouting has an Oath, Law and Motto, as well as a handbook. Scouting is (or was) patriotic, spiritual, egalitarian and a meritocracy. Wokeism isn't compatible.