I've got some pasture overrun with weeds. Also have pasture created from clearing cedar/yaupon/post oak. Mostly common bermuda but it is full of weeds, random grasses, brush starting to grow, etc. It all looks fine after shredding. I've tried spraying Pastureguard last couple of seasons but I'm still overrun with weeds. I'm trying to figure out if I'm spraying the wrong product, doing a poor job of spraying (boom sprayer out of the back of a Ranger) or if it's just a never ending battle. Pasture will be used for horses (not primary feed) and not hay/cattle. Located in the Brazos Valley with mostly sandy soil.

Is there a maintenance plan similar to Randy Lemmon's for pastures? I'm trying to figure the best time to shred, fertilize, spray weeds/brush, lime, etc.

Sheep and goats

have you taken soil test, start there.

Next thing is with horses, how many, how many acres are your grazing, how long do they graze the pasture (2 hours day, rotated every 5 days, graze 24/7, etc)

weeds are normally a sign of poor fertility or disturbance, like clearing or over grazing.

You'll get better control with GrazonNext than PastureGuard. Be sure to apply when the weeds are actively growing and not drought stressed.

We used Duracor last year and it worked great on our pastures. Much cheaper than other products too on a per acre basis.

RMC91 said:

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I've got some pasture overrun with weeds. Also have pasture created from clearing cedar/yaupon/post oak. Mostly common bermuda but it is full of weeds, random grasses, brush starting to grow, etc. It all looks fine after shredding. I've tried spraying Pastureguard last couple of seasons but I'm still overrun with weeds. I'm trying to figure out if I'm spraying the wrong product, doing a poor job of spraying (boom sprayer out of the back of a Ranger) or if it's just a never ending battle. Pasture will be used for horses (not primary feed) and not hay/cattle. Located in the Brazos Valley with mostly sandy soil.

Is there a maintenance plan similar to Randy Lemmon's for pastures? I'm trying to figure the best time to shred, fertilize, spray weeds/brush, lime, etc.

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prescribe burn

Burn the pasture off then spray it a few weeks after. Shredding thick grass and weeds will just leave a thick mat of dead grass and stuff there all summer

Also you can buy 2,4d online for $39 a 2.5 gallon jug on forestry distributing.com. Don't need a license either. Will ship to your door

hlfarmsag said:

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Also you can buy 2,4d online for $39 a 2.5 gallon jug on forestry distributing.com. Don't need a license either. Will ship to your door

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That surprises me. I thought 2,4-D was regulated and only for sale to licensed applicators.

Small pastures are surrounded by dense woods/underbrush so I've been told I'm not a candidate for prescribed burns (at least accordingly to the class I went to for it). I'll check into it again.

As for horses, only a few pleasure horses that are now stabled elsewhere until I can get a barn built (after lumber prices drop if ever).

The property was previously leased for grazing and the tenant overgrazed the heck out of it. Been battling weeds since I bought it. Now have hogs tearing up everything so ground is always being disturbed.

Thanks for tips.

Any plan should be comprehensive, to include herbicides and a balanced fertilizer program. It's almost too late to burn this season, but controlled burning is very effective when the "fuel" is present and executed just prior to spring growth. Shredding is usually a "last resort" whenever conditions prevented other remedies and excess rain allowed weeds to get ahead of you.

CanyonAg77 said:

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hlfarmsag said:

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Also you can buy 2,4d online for $39 a 2.5 gallon jug on forestry distributing.com. Don't need a license either. Will ship to your door

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That surprises me. I thought 2,4-D was regulated and only for sale to licensed applicators.

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I am the same. How are they able to sell this without an applicator's license?

I looked at the website and did not see anything with 2-4-D for $39. I saw Trimec 992 for $90 / 2.5 gallons. Which product is $39?

It is if you go to the feed store and buy it. But online I do it every year. Never had an issue

Google forestry distributing 2,4d 2.5 gallon. I think
the $39.95 one is a white jug labeled Alligare

Another good site is Keystone Pest Solutions

hlfarmsag said:

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Also you can buy 2,4d online for $39 a 2.5 gallon jug on forestry distributing.com. Don't need a license either. Will ship to your door

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if there cotton planted anywhere near by do not apply 2,4 D, in Brazos County it is restricted herbicide.

also if it's an overgrazed pasture you won't have the fuel for a burn.

BQ_90 said:

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hlfarmsag said:

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Also you can buy 2,4d online for $39 a 2.5 gallon jug on forestry distributing.com. Don't need a license either. Will ship to your door

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if there cotton planted anywhere near by do not apply 2,4 D, in Brazos County it is restricted herbicide.

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It's a restricted herbicide statewide, with many counties having "zones" where 2,4-D cannot be used within certain dates.

To apply without a TX Private Pesticide License involved is illegal, even if Bubba bought it online, shipped to his door.

Edited to add: dilute 2,4-D is available to homeowners, in the small(er) containers, and at inflated prices.

https://www.texasagriculture.gov/RegulatoryPrograms/Pesticides/RegulatedHerbicides.aspx

I'm no soil scientist or herbaceous expert but your problem sounds simple. Weeds spring up in disturbed soil as nature's fast cover crop.

Pigs are disturbing the soil. Trap and kill the pigs. Then let horses graze some. Grass will eventually out compete the weeds. Why spend the money on herbicide?

hlfarmsag said:

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Google forestry distributing 2,4d 2.5 gallon. I think
the $39.95 one is a white jug labeled Alligare

Another good site is Keystone Pest Solutions

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From the Forestry Distributing site:


PRODUCT LEGALITY AND SUITABILITY OF USE

Forestry Distributing, ForestryDistributing.com and Horizon, Inc. are not responsible for determining the legality of use of our manufacturers products in all states or locales. Some products may not be registered for use in your state or locale i.e. NY and CA. Check to be sure a product or specific use pattern is approved in your state or locale before purchase or subsequent product use. Check current product labeling or your local state agency for more information. Most current product labels are available by visiting the product manufacturers website or at https://www.cdms.net .
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From the TDA site:
Restrictions on Persons Buying, Using, and Distributing Regulated Herbicides

Quote:

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A person may not purchase or use a regulated herbicide unless the person is a licensed pesticide applicator or is working under the direct supervision of a licensed applicator.
A person may not distribute a pesticide classified as a regulated herbicide to a person not authorized to purchase regulated herbicides.
A person who distributes regulated herbicides must obtain a pesticide dealer's license from the department. Records of sale or distribution must be kept for two years.

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Shredding allows for all the non-native bad stuff to come in if you dont have a plan in place now. The more you shred right now, the more bad stuff will come in and take over.

This. Don't spray your herbicide till the weeds have started coming up. As another post said.....start with a soil sample. Important to know the PH and other points rather than guessing blind.

Quote:

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Forestry Distributing, ForestryDistributing.com and Horizon, Inc. are not responsible for determining the legality of use of our manufacturers products in all states or locales.

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What a cop-out.

The mere fact that they are shipping it to a Texas zip code should block the sale.

hlfarmsag, I hope you have a pesticide license and the knowledge required. Otherwise you admitted to breaking the law on a public forum.

Oops.

So you want to block how many of our smaller Texas county precincts get herbicide for roads and such?

Ok good luck with that

I know that's where my precinct buys theirs

hlfarmsag said:

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So you want to block how many of our smaller Texas county precincts get herbicide for roads and such?

Ok good luck with that

I know that's where my precinct buys theirs

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No one said block it.

I just said it's incredibly irresponsible of them to sell without verifying that the buyers are licensed. Frankly, I don't know how they get away with it. I've served on the board of the local co-op, the state makes them require a license to buy 2,4-D, and I know for a fact that the State of Texas audits who they sell to.

I would assume that all the local precincts are licensed.

Our precincts don't apply herbicides, by the way. We do have noxious weed control districts who will do so, though.

Oh, and your local precincts are getting ripped off. Our co-op sells LV 6 in a 2.5 gallon jug for 80% of what Forestry Distributing sells it for. $45.71 vs. $56.95

I have never seen anyone at a feed store or otherwise that sells restricted use herbicide ask the buyer for their applicator license or even bring that up. I say that having been a private applicator only the last 10 years. Not sure what was done before that.

For the OP, depending on a host of factors, including how bad the seed bed of the soil is infested with weeds, you need to keep at it a couple times a year hitting it with any of a variety of broadleaf products and most importantly- keep the grass healthy. If you stay on it and hit the grass with fertilizer in a timely manner the next couple years, your herbicide needs should start to reduce over time.

Taking a private applicator course might be a helpful intro into learning more about herbicide control of stubborn pastures. I learned a great deal going that route and soaking up as many ag school papers on the subject as I could find.

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I have never seen anyone at a feed store or otherwise that sells restricted use herbicide ask the buyer for their applicator license or even bring that up. I say that having been a private applicator only the last 10 years. Not sure what was done before that.

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Given as how our Co-Op gets checked all the time, I have a hard time believing that. Now, I gave them my info a while back, and they know me, and know I have a license on file. So they aren't going to ask for my license every time..

The only other way I can see it being legal is in "consumer quantities", like the quart jug of 10% 2,4-D you get at Walmart,

I'm floored that anyone would sell a 2.5 gallon jug of 88.4% 2,4-D without a license on file.

Quote:

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State-Limited-Use Pesticides Defined by Active Ingredient

State Limited Use Pesticides are designated by the department. Because of their high potential to cause adverse effects to non-target sites a pesticide product containing an active ingredient in the following list is classified as a state-limited-use pesticide:

• 2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D); including acid, amine, choline, ester and salt formulations;
  
  

Restrictions on Persons Buying, Using, and Distributing State-Limited-Use

• A person may not purchase or use a state limited use pesticide unless the person is a licensed pesticide applicator or is working under the direct supervision of a licensed applicator.
• A person may not distribute a pesticide classified as state-limited-use to a person not authorized to purchase state-limited-use pesticides.
• A person who distributes state limited use pesticides must obtain a pesticide dealer's license from the department. Records of sale or distribution must be kept for two years.

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Quote:

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Exemptions from State-Limited-Use Classification

A pesticide product containing an active ingredient listed above is exempt from classification as a state limited use pesticide if the product:

• is distributed in a container with a capacity less than or equal to one quart for liquid products or less than or equal to two pounds for dry or solid products
• is a specialty fertilizer mixture labeled for ornamental use and registered as a commercial fertilizer under Chapter 63 of the Agriculture Code
• is ready for use, requires no further mixing or dilution before use, and is packaged in a container of one gallon or less for liquid products or four pounds or less for dry or solid products

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https://www.texasagriculture.gov/RegulatoryPrograms/Pesticides/StateLimitedUsePesticide.aspx

Weeds come back every year. Thats why many of us have careers in the field of weed science. There aint no "spray and it kills it forever" herbicide. And yes that includes bareground type herbicides too.
So start with a soil test, get your pH and fertility right for whatever type forage your trying to produce, and then tackle your weed/ brush problem. Its a program approach, not a one & done. Get em in good shape and maintain every year.

Agree on the 2,4-D license/purchase online thing. I've always required a license to buy it. But at the end of the day, the onus is on the person applying it to have a current license. (And fwiw, $39 for a 2.5 is not a great price for D)

I was surprised myself. But I'm not making it up. I've never been asked. I've never seen anyone asked. I suppose I may have never caught a first time purchaser. But they don't ask me and never have. Not even the first time.

flashplayer said:

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I was surprised myself. But I'm not making it up. I've never been asked. I've never seen anyone asked. I suppose I may have never caught a first time purchaser. But they don't ask me and never have. Not even the first time.

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I'd say they're possibly cruising for a big $$$$$$ violation.

Disclaimer: I'm fairly certain the Pesticide Applicator Licenses are available online. If it's a store where you do a lot of business, or it's like our store that writes a ticket and bills at the end of the month, they may have a Texas state database with the authorized buyers.

Until you can ID your primary weed problems, the cure is in question. Annual? Perennial?

I've never watched our local feed store ask for it either.

As mentioned, there is never the perfect time/date, to wipe out weeds, due to when they germinate, plus some (lots!) can lay dormant for years, waiting on the right combo of moisture and soil temperature.

And there are several great herbicide options out, that do not require an applicator license.
Shredding is more aesthetic, than actually controlling weeds. It helps, but you're playing a poor hand, if mowing is your plan.

hlfarmsag said:

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I've never watched our local feed store ask for it either.

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That's because the info is online.

I can assure you that they check.

https://www.texasagriculture.gov/Portals/0/Reports/PIR/pesticide_applicator_pir.xls

I have a pasture with jigs bermuda and starting to have more and more bahia grass take over the jigs. What's a good selective herbicide for this bahia that won't also kill my jigs? My ag chemical buddies have told me herbicides with MSM but other opinions would be appreciated.

Many places keep your Texas Agricultural and Timber Registration on file (with expiration date). I am guessing some of them may keep the Private Pesticide Applicator License on file too.

Anyway, I just show mine every time I buy a restricted item..... 2,4-D and Surmount (Picloram).

BTW.... this has been discussed before.... you are supposed to have the applicator license to buy 2,4-D in a larger container. But anybody can go to Walmart and grab a quart of weed control herbicide that contains 2,4-D.
I assume the law has a container size in it.... quart and under = no license required, or something like that. This definitely confuses me.