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Whole Home Generators Portable vs Permanent experiences?

23,654 Views | 116 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by aTm2004
aggiepaintrain
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AG
I am trying to make heads or tails of Portable vs Permanent. I want to know how you guys mount/protect a portable generator to protect it from weather and be usable during thunderstorms etc... I am not opposed to a generac but if I don't have to spend $10-13k that would be nice.

House is 2900 sq ft with pool no hot tub and 2 furnaces/AC units, 1 hot water heater. Natural gas heat.


Canyon99
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AG
In as I hope to build within the next few years and need to consider options.
ag_pete09
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AG
Also interested in this.

I talked to a neighborhood electrician and he wants to just install the 6 breaker reliance transfer switch. Another electrician said he could get a generac transfer switch to install portable generator.

I'm particularly interested in how I could run one of my central air conditioners with a big enough portable, particularly if I can run it off natural gas with either a generator designed that way or with a conversion kit. Could I get it rigged up with two portables (one for AC and one for rest of house)?

Here's a previous thread that had some information: https://texags.com/forums/34/topics/3107993
CanyonAg77
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AG
If you do a portable, you'll still need an isolator switch to keep power from back-feeding into the grid. And you'll need it wired into your breaker box, to only power essential services.
CanyonAg77
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AG
Quote:

Could I get it rigged up with two portables (one for AC and one for rest of house)?
Sure, get an electrician to rig up the transfer switch, run one generator to the AC, the other to other critical circuits.

Frankly, by the time you buy two generators and pay for wiring, a whole house unit looks pretty good.
ag_pete09
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AG
CanyonAg77 said:

Quote:

Could I get it rigged up with two portables (one for AC and one for rest of house)?
Sure, get an electrician to rig up the transfer switch, run one generator to the AC, the other to other critical circuits.

Frankly, by the time you buy two generators and pay for wiring, a whole house unit looks pretty good.


Thanks.

Right now I have one 8500 watt generator that's supposed to be dual fuel but I've never been able to crank it on propane. I guess you could consider that sunk costs. At that point I would be looking at adding one more ($600-$900) plus wiring.

From what I've seen, the cheapest you will get into a whole home is $9k. Is that about right? Plus it would stay with the house at that point if I move.
ForeverAg
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AG
I don't have anything further to contribute other than I'll be getting a permanent whole home generator and at least a 500 Gallon propane tank buried just for the generator. Hearing our neighbors generator and seeing all their lights on while I see the frost of my breath in my own home makes this a very easy decision for me.
CanyonAg77
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AG
Quote:

From what I've seen, the cheapest you will get into a whole home is $9k. Is that about right? Plus it would stay with the house at that point if I move.
We ordered this one for mom.

https://www.generac.com/all-products/generators/home-backup-generators/guardian-series/24kw-7210-prwview-transfer-switch-wifi-enabled

About $5700, and installation and wiring will run the total to a little over $9,000.

She already had a pad poured, and the meter and the natural gas line are right there with it. It should run the whole house, unless she tries to run the AC, dryer, and oven all at once.

I guess you could always take the generator with you, and leave the transfer switch and other hookups. But the buyer might take offense. Leaving it as a selling point would probably net you more money.

And as you've probably seen me say before, there was a 20 week backlog of orders at Generac when we ordered in January. I'm betting that has at least doubled.
CanyonAg77
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AG
Quote:

Right now I have one 8500 watt generator that's supposed to be dual fuel but I've never been able to crank it on propane
How about once it is warmed up? Been around a lot of propane and natural gas engines in my life. Seems like a lot of our propane engines had a button to prime the engine with a shot of propane before cranking.

Most NG/Propane carbs are a simple diaphragm carb. Sometimes the needle/seat/diaphragm would stick, if it hadn't been used in a while. Simple clean with WD-40 and a rag.
ag_pete09
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AG
CanyonAg77 said:

Quote:

Right now I have one 8500 watt generator that's supposed to be dual fuel but I've never been able to crank it on propane
How about once it is warmed up? Been around a lot of propane and natural gas engines in my life. Seems like a lot of our propane engines had a button to prime the engine with a shot of propane before cranking.

Most NG/Propane carbs are a simple diaphragm carb. Sometimes the needle/seat/diaphragm would stick, if it hadn't been used in a while. Simple clean with WD-40 and a rag.


I'll look at cleaning it and potential priming when things calm down. It's never been run on propane and I've tried cranking on propane in the summer as well.

It also will only crank with the battery electric start and won't crank with the manual pull start even after warmed up.

I don't want to take advantage, but it may become a Costco return. Probably a reason they haven't carried the big champions in a while.
JeremiahJohnson
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AG
Depends on how often you are going to use the portable. I have portable because I take it hunting and for tailgating.

If you dont plan on doing that, permanent is better.

Also have a home integration kit and can hook up to my house.

Use a GoalZero Yeti battery bank for backup. Especially while hunting.
VegasAg98
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AG
My electrical company (minority owner) just became a distributor for Kohler whole house units. They run a little more than a generac. We're based out of Houston and B/CS but can service everywhere through our partners.

PM for more info and for our lead contact person.

Note: I'm really not here to advertise, just that our company can answer questions and could potentially be of service.
schmellba99
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AG
ForeverAg said:

I don't have anything further to contribute other than I'll be getting a permanent whole home generator and at least a 500 Gallon propane tank buried just for the generator. Hearing our neighbors generator and seeing all their lights on while I see the frost of my breath in my own home makes this a very easy decision for me.
Just remember with a buried tank, it has to be registered and I believe annually inspected with the state. Above ground ones don't.
CanyonAg77
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AG
We used to use an old in-ground tank as a water tank. The amount of rust on it makes me leery of buried.
Todd 02
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AG
Here's my $0.02 for anybody that wants to read it...

First of all, you need to map out the circuits in your house. Determine which circuit runs what light, plug, appliance, etc.

Second, determine what lights, plugs, appliances, etc are critical if you lost shore power. Consider both summer and winter power needs. Probably want HVAC, water heater, fridges, freezers, some lights, and some plugs. Probably don't need to run the washer, dryer, dishwasher, etc. You'll probably learn during this step that your house wasn't wired with much consideration for running on generator power.

Third, determine the power consumption for each of those circuits. The easiest way to do that is multiply the amperage rating of the breaker on the circuit by the voltage. A single pole breaker with a 15 amp rating is generally capable of 1,800 watts (15 amps x 120 volts = 1,800 watts). A double pole breaker with a 50 amp rating is general capable of 12,000 watts (50 amps x 240 volts = 12,000 watts).

Fourth, add up all the watts you calculated in step 3. That's the size of generator you'll need to be able to run ALL of those circuits completely loaded ALL at the same time.

***You probably don't NEED to run all of the circuits all at the same time on your generator.

Once you figure out your needs, you'll need to decide how you want to hook it up. Some permanent gensets are capable of sensing a power outage and starting up on their own. Some must be started manually. Some, such as portable generators, must be positioned and plugged in through a power inlet. Some have a transfer switch that only feeds a fixed number of circuits. Some can be hooked up with a mousetrap style interlock that backfeeds the panel.

No matter what you do, you ABSOLUTELY MUST make sure you don't backfeed power onto the grid. You run the risk of injuring someone who might be working on a down line. If you're powering your house from a generator, you must disconnect the house from shore power.

My personal setup at my house is a portable generator with a power inlet. I have an interlock that keeps the generator from feeding power to the panel unless the main disconnect is off. I mapped my whole house and determined which circuits are critical. It takes some knowledge of how the system works, but I can run basically everything in my house EXCEPT the emergency heat strips for my heat pump, the oven, and the dryer. My whole setup was $850.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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ForeverAg said:

I don't have anything further to contribute other than I'll be getting a permanent whole home generator and at least a 500 Gallon propane tank buried just for the generator. Hearing our neighbors generator and seeing all their lights on while I see the frost of my breath in my own home makes this a very easy decision for me.
I loled.
aTm2004
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AG
The previous owner of our house was a pilot who flew for Delta out of Atlanta. He had a while home installed after Harvey (probably due to a pissed off wife), so it was a very nice bonus when we bought it. That said, I had a conversation with my mom several months ago when she was debating getting one, and I wouldn't recommend it unless you're in an area that loses power all of the time. We've been in our house for almost 3 years, and there have probably been a total of 2 whole days that we've needed it, with only one of them being out more than a few hours.

If I was going to make the decision today, I would get a Honda inverter (2 2000s or 1 7000) and have an electrician get me set up for it to be plugged in. It would run necessary appliances, some lights, and a heater (if needed), and be a whole lot less. Yeah, I'd have to keep more gas on hand, but you usually know when something is coming, so you can prepare.

Yeah, the whole home is very nice when we need it, but the cost vs how often it's used hasn't been there.
Bradley.Kohr.II
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AG
I don't know if anyone makes a house size of this system/if it's how a Tesla wall works, but a battery supply to deal with start up loads, should let a much smaller generator power a whole house/permit fairly easy switching between solar/wind and propane/NG
rancher1953
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VegasAG98 can you email me with your info. Im in the Sealy area and looking for unit. I also have good friend looking for the same. You may sell two units . My email is elox05@yahoo.com. Thanks
Righteousgemstone
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Going on day three, mostly on generac. Hoping we have enough fuel to get us through to warmer temps. Have burned 250 gallon tank down to 50 percent. The biggest problem has been the cold start on our biggest heat pump. Has taken the genset a couple of tries to start it up. Once running it does fine. Running pool pump, heat pump, well and the usual household things. Tesla battery wall is a good thought on the startup issue.
AgLA06
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AG
The biggest difference is going to be cost and convenience trade off. You're going to be $10k plus in Houston for a standby generator as they size for your load (every possible electrical consumption even though you'll never run every light or appliance at the same time) and then upside to ensure you always have enough power. This means lots of unneeded money spent.

A large portable will be a fraction of the cost and it's portable so you can install a cheap winch in the garage and bug out if needed. You can also currently buy large dual fuel generators (gas and propane) and conversion kits for NG. I went this route because I want whole home backup power and the quantities of gas and propane needed wasn't practical (and extremely expensive for large propane tanks) that most neighborhoods won't allow because of easement requirements. I can also extend fuel if NG goes out by siphoning from 2 vehicle gas tanks as well and notworry aboutthe costor risk of 10 gas cans.

This would be my choice if buying today. Between COVID and hurricanes this summer very few options were available when I purchased so I had to go with the 12k version.

https://www.duromaxpower.com/products/duromax-xp15000eh-15000-watt-v-twin-electric-start-dual-fuel-hybrid-portable-generator


Cons of portables: you can't install automatic transfer switches in most major municipalities even though many come with remote start. Something to do with electrical code even though no one could explain why (I'm guessing standby generator lobbyists).

Cons of whole home standby: large up front costs, usually only one fuel option, and pricy maintenance costs. Plus you can't take it with you. Nice selling feature if selling your home, but don't expect to get your money back. Wait time was also 20+ weeks when I was quoted, while my portable was delivered in under 2 weeks.

AgLA06
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AG
My suggestion would be to manually start / stop your heat source. It's a lot easier if you kill power to everything else when starting a large wattage appliance. Once started, bring everything else back up.
SharkinAg
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AG
I'm running a generac 10000kw portable. It's powering my whole house. Ran my AC during Hannah. If you have electric heat you're out of luck. I have a furnace so I've kept my house at 72 this whole time and been watching satellite tv. My gf almost tripped it a few times running her espresso machine so we talked about that lol. I'm very hoot with it. Next house will be a permanent unit not a portable but this is working great for the time being. The previous owners built this frame with trellace to hide the kids toys. I put a roof on it and it lasted through Hannah no prob this past summer. In corpus.




Righteousgemstone
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Is there a transfer switch in there somewhere?
SharkinAg
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AG
Righteousgemstone said:

Is there a transfer switch in there somewhere?


Mine is wired into a breaker just for the generator. Shut off the main breaker supplying the panel and switch on the generator breaker and start the generator. The generator powers the entire panel.
Todd 02
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AG
If there's no transfer switch, then you use an interlock like this:



The generator inlet plug is wired to that top right double pole breaker so it can supply power to each leg of the panel. You can't power the panel with the generator if the main switch is on, and vice versa.
TarponChaser
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Is that connected to a natural gas line or what?
Todd 02
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AG
Looks like a gasoline generator. I think the large black "hose" is actually the power cord connected to the house.
coastalAg
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AG
For those of you with portable generators, what are the limitations with running appliances off of them? Have heard of people frying electronics with their generators. Is this a load issue?
JeremiahJohnson
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AG
coastalAg said:

For those of you with portable generators, what are the limitations with running appliances off of them? Have heard of people frying electronics with their generators. Is this a load issue?


That's likely because they are using construction portable generators. Ones for the home have power inverters and are spec'd different.
Kuz89
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AG
SharkinAg said:

I'm running a generac 10000kw portable. It's powering my whole house. Ran my AC during Hannah. If you have electric heat you're out of luck. I have a furnace so I've kept my house at 72 this whole time and been watching satellite tv. My gf almost tripped it a few times running her espresso machine so we talked about that lol. I'm very hoot with it. Next house will be a permanent unit not a portable but this is working great for the time being. The previous owners built this frame with trellace to hide the kids toys. I put a roof on it and it lasted through Hannah no prob this past summer. In corpus.

My setup is similar but I only have a 5500/8500 Briggs and Stratton that I have had since Ike wired to a 2 pole breaker. I have a 3000 SQ house with 2 gas furnaces and it's has had no problems pushing both units at the same time along with 2 full size refrigerators, lights and a couple of LED TVs. As SharkinAg stated the Kureg coffee maker and the microwave seem to cause the most issues. I have not tried to run a clothes or dish washer yet but I think the latter might cause issues with the drying cycle.

Once I have it setup and positioned it takes less that 5 minutes to switch to generator when the rolling blackouts occur. My biggest issue is watching the neighbors to keep track of when the power comes back on and I can switch back.
coastalAg
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AG
aggie1819 said:

coastalAg said:

For those of you with portable generators, what are the limitations with running appliances off of them? Have heard of people frying electronics with their generators. Is this a load issue?


That's likely because they are using construction portable generators. Ones for the home have power inverters and are spec'd different.
It seems like many on this thread are using those construction generators to power their homes. I have the same Briggs & Stratton that I think was described just above. Just wondering what the implications of installing a transfer switch and using it to power appliances and electronics for an extended period vs getting a Honda inverter generator or something similar.

Sorry, this is probably basic, but an electrician I am not.
Naveronski
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AG
I've been wanting a generator for a while, but this has pushed the Mrs to consider it as well.

I know trying to buy one today would be silly, but where do I start?

Figure a 1800 sq ft home
HVAC, fridge, garage freezer
Home office? Two PC's and monitors, etc.
Some lights around the house.
Furnace and tankless water heater are both gas, but still need power to function.
Quiet is a big plus. I'd love to be able to take it tailgating/camping/hunting.

Gas? Propane? Natural gas?

I've seen some great posts above, but it seems like there are a bunch of manufactures and even more model options.
AgLiving06
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How big's the HVAC unit?
mosdefn14
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AG
Naveronski said:

I've been wanting a generator for a while, but this has pushed the Mrs to consider it as well.

I know trying to buy one today would be silly, but where do I start?

Figure a 1800 sq ft home
HVAC, fridge, garage freezer
Home office? Two PC's and monitors, etc.
Some lights around the house.
Furnace and tankless water heater are both gas, but still need power to function.
Quiet is a big plus. I'd love to be able to take it tailgating/camping/hunting.

Gas? Propane? Natural gas?

I've seen some great posts above, but it seems like there are a bunch of manufactures and even more model options.
That's like telling the car salesman you want to drive 110 with the top down, but also run carpool duty and pull a 30ft wakeboard boat.
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