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Carrying "spiffy" rounds...

4,865 Views | 47 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by maverick2076
Slamn Sharpe
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In reply to powerbelly • 5:27p, 1/22/20
powerbelly said:

Quote:
A .45 whether it be hollow point or a jacketed round is gonna do severe damage to the human torso. The person taking that round is most likely hitting the floor. If they can get back up is another story. I would wager that most often times if they're able to get back on their feet, they're not in a state to do much and will expire quickly. For sure if it's a hollow point
This is not addressed at all by the article you posted.

The article, in particular, didn't focus on the nature of the shootings (defensive, execution, etc) so it is almost worthless when talking about self-defense.

Almost everyone agrees the 9mm and up is sufficient for self-defense.


Are you trolling? I previously added 9mm into my stance on using handgun calibers for self defense and their effectiveness. I believe I did this twice. You're trying to hard to prove a point when the point has been made already

Thanks for proving my point?
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to Slamn Sharpe • 5:44p, 1/22/20
AG
McDadeTXAggie said:


Thanks for posting a story on one person? I'll stick to common sense and a host of statistics


Sounds like you've got it all figured out then. Have a good one.
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DiskoTroop
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In reply to BenderRodriguez • 7:45p, 1/22/20
BenderRodriguez said:
McDadeTXAggie said:


Thanks for posting a story on one person? I'll stick to common sense and a host of statistics


Sounds like you've got it all figured out then. Have a good one.
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Bradley.Kohr.II
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In reply to BenderRodriguez • 2:53a, 1/23/20
AG
BenderRodriguez said:
phideaux_2003 said:

Apparently Bender is skipping this thread.

Man, if you're getting in a good 50 rounds of practice a week, I don't care what you're carrying. You're ahead of 99.99% of people carrying a gun.
"The deficiencies of others, is no reason not to address my own."

Can't remember where that got drilled in, but it comes to mind.

Besides, suspended bowling pins and 3D targets are entertaining.
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Charismatic Megafauna
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9:59a, 1/23/20
AG
Since we're citing anecdotal evidence, I remember there was an NW80 quote relevant to this topic. As a dude who saw the aftermath of a lot of GSWs he preferred .45 to 9mm for self defense
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to Charismatic Megafauna • 10:07a, 1/23/20
AG
He saw the ones that made it to the ER, then lived long enough to see a trauma surgeon.

As far as statistical samples go when talking about effectiveness of stopping an attacker during an assault, his scope was pretty limited.

And IIRC, he did still work on and see people shot by .45. Because like all handgun rounds, it kinda sucks at actually killing people.

The anecdotal case I mentioned wasn't brought up to argue 9>45 anyway. They're all crappy, unless you hit something that matters....which is why arguing for one over the other because it's a better "stopper" is just really missing the mark.
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DiskoTroop
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11:30a, 1/23/20
Bingo. Those are the words I was looking for.

9 vs 45 is kinda moot. They all suck. Hitting something vital is what's most important and nothing is more vital than the CNS. And the best way to hit the CNS is via penetration. Hard hitting penetration. Hollow points are not designed for penetration. They're designed for flesh wounding.

So if you carry and shoot in my shooting style, you want penetration and ball or FMJ's are great at that.
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BenderRodriguez
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In reply to Bradley.Kohr.II • 11:49a, 1/23/20
AG
Bradley.Kohr.II said:
BenderRodriguez said:
phideaux_2003 said:

Apparently Bender is skipping this thread.

Man, if you're getting in a good 50 rounds of practice a week, I don't care what you're carrying. You're ahead of 99.99% of people carrying a gun.
"The deficiencies of others, is no reason not to address my own."

Can't remember where that got drilled in, but it comes to mind.

Besides, suspended bowling pins and 3D targets are entertaining.


That's a great quote.
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Mr. Dubi
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4:41p, 1/23/20
I have seen people hit in the head, face, chest, abdomen, arms, legs, hands and feet with .22, .380, 9mm, .40, .45, .44 mag all JHP's, and 7.62x39 FMJ who all walked out of the hospital. (Except the guys shot through the femur-they left in wheelchairs).

Hollow points usually expand in our environment. I mean really, how often do you wear 4-10 layers of clothing?

The biggest wound cavity-permanent or temporary was caused by the commie round. The only over penetrations I have seen were .40 to the chest and femur, or .45 to the hand, or the 7.62x39, but it was to soft tissue only.

The most life threatening injury I have seen is the femur, involving the femoral artery.

I have never seen a wadcutter GSW, thugs and cops don't carry wheel guns.
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DiskoTroop
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In reply to Mr. Dubi • 8:06p, 1/23/20
Mr. Dubi said:
The most life threatening injury I have seen is the femur, involving the femoral artery.


This reminded me of the other reason I like FMJ! Pelvic shots! Great for close quarter, low retention shots. Ball busts bone!
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Mr. Dubi
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In reply to DiskoTroop • 9:15p, 1/23/20
NATO uses FMJ's with reasonable lethality
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Bradley.Kohr.II
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11:07p, 1/23/20
AG
Not sure if I should put this here, but I got some Winchester service grade truncated cone 380s. They see, to run fine, in my 1911-380 and look decently made. Some of the jackets aren't that pretty, but no misfires, etc.

I'd prefer lead or plated truncated cone, but I couldn't find those, in a quality I wanted.

I will test them in a GLOCK and P3AT when back in SC
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Mr. Dubi
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5:23p, 1/24/20
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maverick2076
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In reply to Mr. Dubi • 8:02p, 1/24/20
NATO uses FMJ rounds due to international convention, reliability of feeding in diverse weapons systems, and a need to defeat body armor on the battlefield...not because they are more lethal than hollow points.

Pistol rounds, by and large, are inferior people stoppers. CNS hits or massive blood loss are your best bets for incapacitating a threat, with CNS hits being preferable. Properly designed jacketed hollow points still allow sufficient penetration for reliable CNS hits while expanding to create larger wound channels and greater blood loss. Those expanded projectiles also have a better chance of hitting vital organs. Furthermore, they lessen (but not eliminate) over penetration and rounds going through their targets and striking unintended targets on the other side of the threat.

If wadcutters, FMJ rounds, or other solid projectiles were preferable for stopping human threats, police departments, the FBI, Etc. would use them. They don't.
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