AggieChemist said:
Generally speaking, I resent anyone or anything that causes me to agree extensively with or feel empathy for schmellba99.
So piss off you cookie wanker.
That was my exact feeling on it.
Neighbor will not cut down dead tree
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Last: 4 yr ago by C@LAg
That was my exact feeling on it.
Tell your neighbor that you are going to hire someone to cut down the tree and that they will be on his property on a certain date and will need access. After the tree is down (Or before/during) you can discuss payment. He may pay part of it or none of it but the cost of removing the tree may preferable to a fight with your neighbor plus legal costs. If he does not agree to give access then get a lawyer. I would consider a lawyer the very last resort. If you pursue legal remedy you may end up paying the lawyer the tree service money and now you have a neighbor who is your mortal enemy. Sucks but it sounds like you are the one who wants the tree gone and he could care less.
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*couldn't care less
in the general spirit of this thread
in the general spirit of this thread
OP, many people that avoid certified mail will still accept and sign for a FedEx envelope. Costs a little more, but you will have proof that they received what you sent.
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okay here's another option. Find someone with a quadcopter, climbing rope and heavy fishing rod/reel. use quadcopter to run fishing line around those upper branches and bring the end of the line down to you. Tie fishing line to climbing rope, pull rope back over the tree. You and your friend pull like hell on both ends of the rope and bring the tree down. Fix fence.
*don't video or tell FAA
*don't video or tell FAA
I send these letters via certified and US mail. They can refuse to pick up a certified but I've never had a problem in court using this method. Not only did they get the letter but they look petty and even worse in front of a judge/jury for refusing to accept the certified.ntxaggie said:
OP, many people that avoid certified mail will still accept and sign for a FedEx envelope. Costs a little more, but you will have proof that they received what you sent.
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option 3: Start bringing branches home whenever you see them. Pine preferably but ones that are clearly not pine will be funnier. Throw branches over the fence toward base of their tree. After a couple of weeks they will have picked up a small forest worth of branches out of their backyard "that fell off that dead tree" and maybe they will get sick of it and decide to have it cut.
Talk to your lawyer about seeking a mandatory injunction. Most people are familiar with injunctions that order people to refrain from some conduct, but you can also use the injunction to order them to take some action. I might argue that the dead tree, given its location, size and condition poses an unreasonable risk to you and your family that prevents you from the quiet enjoyment of your property and poses a health risk to your family. As such it is a nuisance causing damage to you.
File the suit, requesting a mandatory injunction compelling the removal of the tree as a dangerous nuisance or at least ordering that it be cut so that when it falls it cannot reach your home, fence or cars. If they don't have money for the tree to be cut, they may not hire a lawyer and default giving you the chance to get an order with little cost to you. Either way, this should smoke them out.
I have been involved with suits that treat lights as a trespass and this situation might be viewed in much the same way. Certainly worth your consideration and that of your lawyer.
File the suit, requesting a mandatory injunction compelling the removal of the tree as a dangerous nuisance or at least ordering that it be cut so that when it falls it cannot reach your home, fence or cars. If they don't have money for the tree to be cut, they may not hire a lawyer and default giving you the chance to get an order with little cost to you. Either way, this should smoke them out.
I have been involved with suits that treat lights as a trespass and this situation might be viewed in much the same way. Certainly worth your consideration and that of your lawyer.
rootube said:
Tell your neighbor that you are going to hire someone to cut down the tree and that they will be on his property on a certain date and will need access. After the tree is down (Or before/during) you can discuss payment. He may pay part of it or none of it but the cost of removing the tree may preferable to a fight with your neighbor plus legal costs. If he does not agree to give access then get a lawyer. I would consider a lawyer the very last resort. If you pursue legal remedy you may end up paying the lawyer the tree service money and now you have a neighbor who is your mortal enemy. Sucks but it sounds like you are the one who wants the tree gone and he could care less.
This is a terribly bad idea.
First, going on someone else's property to do work like this without proper permission opens you up to criminal activity. You and your agent are on his property destroying something that belongs to him without him agreeing to it.
Second, if something bad happens as a result of you or your contractor, you are now on the wrong end of the problem.
Third, no contractor with a lick of business sense is going to agree to do this.
Well after 4 pages I thought the first idea had been decided against by OP. I did not suggest filing suit and seeking injunctive relief should be the first option, but it is possible as a last resort. Thought I would offer after reading all of the legal advice being tossed around in this post.
As I am sure you are aware, a suit and service doesn't require thousands of dollars and may get the neighbor to pay attention. You can use it to come to an agreement and dismiss the suit. The suit is intended to get the tree down if all else fails.
As I am sure you are aware, a suit and service doesn't require thousands of dollars and may get the neighbor to pay attention. You can use it to come to an agreement and dismiss the suit. The suit is intended to get the tree down if all else fails.
I'd be Got-damned if I would pay to cut down a nuisance tree that didn't belong to me.
Sorry I haven't responded in awhile, I had to drive to Houston yesterday afternoon (4 hours each way) and I only got a few hours of sleep last night.
I think I'm going to drop another certified letter in the mail, while videoing it going into the envelope and being dropped at the post office. I'll also drop a regular mail envelope in the mail, so that they'll at least see what it is if they're not home when the certified letter comes and they don't go pick it up. I'll add in their liability if the tree falls and reference both certified letters. I'm also going to go knock on their door and talk to them again with a sterner tone, but not rude. I'll record that conversation. I'm in the early stages of growing my business right now and after paying uncle Sam a couple of weeks ago I do not have $2K to spend on someone else's tree. For clarity, the tree is mostly leaning towards my garage. The bedrooms are not at risk and I think the only other part of the house that might be in reach is the kitchen and then it would only be the very top limbs. Vehicles are a possibility, but chances are slim, it would have to fall a little north of the direction it's leaning. I'll give it one more shot with the certified letters and door knock, if that doesn't work I'll scrape up the money. If at all possible I'll leave that log laying in their yard if I'm paying to cut it down. They probably have close to an acre in their back yard, so it wouldn't even come close to their pool.
Somebody mentioned the fence, yes the face boards are kind of old, but I'm replacing them slowly when I have the time. The framing on the other side is almost all brand new though, as I replaced it after the big windstorms we had here last year.
If I had a long reach skytrack could I push it back towards their yard and snap it off or do you think I risk the canopy snapping off above the forks and falling back on the skytrack? I'd have to take down a section of fence, but I think I could get a skytrack in there. Might be cheaper and safer than a tree cutter trying to climb that dead wood.
I think I'm going to drop another certified letter in the mail, while videoing it going into the envelope and being dropped at the post office. I'll also drop a regular mail envelope in the mail, so that they'll at least see what it is if they're not home when the certified letter comes and they don't go pick it up. I'll add in their liability if the tree falls and reference both certified letters. I'm also going to go knock on their door and talk to them again with a sterner tone, but not rude. I'll record that conversation. I'm in the early stages of growing my business right now and after paying uncle Sam a couple of weeks ago I do not have $2K to spend on someone else's tree. For clarity, the tree is mostly leaning towards my garage. The bedrooms are not at risk and I think the only other part of the house that might be in reach is the kitchen and then it would only be the very top limbs. Vehicles are a possibility, but chances are slim, it would have to fall a little north of the direction it's leaning. I'll give it one more shot with the certified letters and door knock, if that doesn't work I'll scrape up the money. If at all possible I'll leave that log laying in their yard if I'm paying to cut it down. They probably have close to an acre in their back yard, so it wouldn't even come close to their pool.
Somebody mentioned the fence, yes the face boards are kind of old, but I'm replacing them slowly when I have the time. The framing on the other side is almost all brand new though, as I replaced it after the big windstorms we had here last year.
If I had a long reach skytrack could I push it back towards their yard and snap it off or do you think I risk the canopy snapping off above the forks and falling back on the skytrack? I'd have to take down a section of fence, but I think I could get a skytrack in there. Might be cheaper and safer than a tree cutter trying to climb that dead wood.
Letting them win and take advantage of me is a hard pill to swallow. I'm about done with being screwed over by shady and irresponsible people.Sasappis said:Locknload said:
Well after 4 pages I thought the first idea had been decided against by OP. I did not suggest filing suit and seeking injunctive relief should be the first option, but it is possible as a last resort. Thought I would offer after reading all of the legal advice being tossed around in this post.
As I am sure you are aware, a suit and service doesn't require thousands of dollars and may get the neighbor to pay attention. You can use it to come to an agreement and dismiss the suit. The suit is intended to get the tree down if all else fails.
You are right that it is the best legal option, it is just expensive.
I would say $1000 to $1500 to get a suit on file is a reasonable guesstimate. Probably the best he will find is a $2500 retainer. Some folks would want $5k before they got involved. Cutting down the tree is cheaper.
I also dislike the idea of assuming responsibility and any assumptions of my responsibilities going forward.
This is why I have insurance and God created subrogation.Sasappis said:AggieChemist said:
I'd be Got-damned if I would pay to cut down a nuisance tree that didn't belong to me.
Is it better to pay to cut it down today or deal with having to repair everything it destroys when it falls?
People suck and those that will not do what is necessary cause problems for others.
AggieChemist said:
Generally speaking, I resent anyone or anything that causes me to agree extensively with or feel empathy for schmellba99.
So piss off you cookie wanker.
trouble said:AggieChemist said:
Generally speaking, I resent anyone or anything that causes me to agree extensively with or feel empathy for schmellba99.
So piss off you cookie wanker.
That was my exact feeling on it.
But then your insurance rates go up as a result of the [in]action of somebody else. You still lose.AggieChemist said:This is why I have insurance and God created subrogation.Sasappis said:AggieChemist said:
I'd be Got-damned if I would pay to cut down a nuisance tree that didn't belong to me.
Is it better to pay to cut it down today or deal with having to repair everything it destroys when it falls?
People suck and those that will not do what is necessary cause problems for others.
People are buttholes, which is why I generally hate almost all of them.
This is America, Jack. Good luck trying to "persuade" any ETX redneck to do anything on his own piece of God's country.
A couple times a month someone posts about something ridiculous with their HOA. These types of situations are why HOA's started and are a little crazy about rules.
schmellba99 said:
Seems strange your lawyer woulnd't send them a letter explaining that they have been notified several times of the potential hazard of the tree and should it fall and damage your property, a lawsuit will be forthcoming to recover all expenses for damages plus lawyer's fees and also gently reminding them of the consequences of what might happen legally if there is an injury to a person or pet as a result of negligence on their part.
The reason the lawyer hasn't sent that letter is that it would be like sending you a letter warning you that if you drove erratically tomorrow morning AND wrecked into his client AND caused his client injury, they'd be all over you. It is way too speculative. I'm unaware of any legal duty a property owner owe another one to cut down a tree, even a dead one. Saying something COULD cause harm is like the potential auto accident above.
Anyway, what would you do if you got a demand letter like this? Cower in fear or throw it in the trash? What if you either couldn't afford to take down the tree or for whatever other reason had no intention of doing so?
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I got paid to do tree work, but I'm far from being a professional. I just know that anytime you think you have it figured out, tied off, pulled away, under control, etc., you don't and crazy stuff will happen. A trunk that size, even near the top, is got damn heavy and will likely do serious damage.aggieforester05 said:
If I had a long reach skytrack could I push it back towards their yard and snap it off or do you think I risk the canopy snapping off above the forks and falling back on the skytrack? I'd have to take down a section of fence, but I think I could get a skytrack in there. Might be cheaper and safer than a tree cutter trying to climb that dead wood.
That even goes for the everyday trimming and cutting you do in your own back yard. That trunk would scare the bejezuss out of me. My buddy always had the spikes and belt on, loping off limbs on the way up. Climbing movement makes the trunk start to oscillate and as the tree expert said earlier, composition of wood greatly matters.
I think your best route may be to have a ISA certified Arborist come evaluate the tree, if they deem it as hazardous the landowner needs to be made aware.
https://abcarborist.com/treesliabilities-and-the-laws/
https://abcarborist.com/treesliabilities-and-the-laws/
- A hazardous tree is defined as having a significant structural defect that may cause the tree or a portion of the tree to fall on someone or something of value.
I'd argue that letting a known potential hazard sit is a little different than your example - to me it's more akin to having a swimming pool without a protective fence around it or a construction excavation without safety fencing. It's a known nuisance and danger, and if you know it is a nuisance and danger you can't use the "well, I had no clue" defense.91AggieLawyer said:schmellba99 said:
Seems strange your lawyer woulnd't send them a letter explaining that they have been notified several times of the potential hazard of the tree and should it fall and damage your property, a lawsuit will be forthcoming to recover all expenses for damages plus lawyer's fees and also gently reminding them of the consequences of what might happen legally if there is an injury to a person or pet as a result of negligence on their part.
The reason the lawyer hasn't sent that letter is that it would be like sending you a letter warning you that if you drove erratically tomorrow morning AND wrecked into his client AND caused his client injury, they'd be all over you. It is way too speculative. I'm unaware of any legal duty a property owner owe another one to cut down a tree, even a dead one. Saying something COULD cause harm is like the potential auto accident above.
Anyway, what would you do if you got a demand letter like this? Cower in fear or throw it in the trash? What if you either couldn't afford to take down the tree or for whatever other reason had no intention of doing so?
Keep in mind that I view things from a contractor/liability standpoint - because these are things I have had to deal with and will continue to have to deal with.
And this will come as a shock to the board - but I'm not a POS neighbor, so if something like this hypothetically were to happen to me, I'd figure out a way to address it with my neighbor to make sure I'm not going to end up being liable for life or limb or property damage down the road. Easy to say, I know.
Move. Not your problem after that.
Look. Its simple. Tell the neighbor if he lets you have the tree cut down yall can go 50/50 on a trebuchet.
Louisiana case, which the tree non-owner won.
The testimony by Kilpatrick and Lambert demonstrated that the heart rot would weaken the structure of the tree over time through the increased decay of the heart wood, which was a vital part of the tree's stability. Given the size of the tree, its proximity to the plaintiff's home, the gravity of the potential injury and the likelihood of serious harm to persons or property if the tree fell in this residential neighborhood, the trial court could reasonably find that the diseased condition of the tree was a defect which presented an unreasonable risk of harm to others.
Brown v. Williams, 36,863 (La. App. 2 Cir. 7/31/03), 850 So. 2d 1116, 1122, writ denied, 2003-2445 (La. 11/21/03), 860 So. 2d 555
Take home is this: make sure they are on notice. If damage occurs, it will be easier for you or your insurance company to go after them.
This is from an Am Jur, which is a survey of American law:
A landowner who knows that a tree on one's property is decayed and may fall and damage the property of an adjoining landowner is under a duty to eliminate the danger1 even if the tree grew on and became part of the land by natural condition.2 Moreover, a landowner who knows or should know of a dangerous condition of a tree on one's property may be held liable for the injuries caused or damage done when the tree falls on an adjoining landowner's property.3 Specifically, a homeowner may prevail in a cause of action against an adjoining landowner whose tree destroyed the homeowner's home when the homeowner shows that the diseased condition of the tree was a defect which presented an unreasonable risk of harm to others, that the adjoining landowner should have known about the rotted condition of the heartwood in the tree, and that the exercise of reasonable care could have prevented the destruction of the homeowner's house.4 An owner or possessor of property, however, does not have a duty to remove healthy trees merely because the wind might knock them down in the absence of actual or constructive knowledge of defects affecting the trees.5
Liability may be imposed for damages to adjoining property from negligence in felling a tree where the tree does not fall on the adjoining land but rather in the street, disrupting utility service in the adjoining property and causing plaster to crack in the property.6
1 Am. Jur. 2d Adjoining Landowners 21
My bill is a win for the Ags against LSU, payable this year. Thanks.
The testimony by Kilpatrick and Lambert demonstrated that the heart rot would weaken the structure of the tree over time through the increased decay of the heart wood, which was a vital part of the tree's stability. Given the size of the tree, its proximity to the plaintiff's home, the gravity of the potential injury and the likelihood of serious harm to persons or property if the tree fell in this residential neighborhood, the trial court could reasonably find that the diseased condition of the tree was a defect which presented an unreasonable risk of harm to others.
Brown v. Williams, 36,863 (La. App. 2 Cir. 7/31/03), 850 So. 2d 1116, 1122, writ denied, 2003-2445 (La. 11/21/03), 860 So. 2d 555
Take home is this: make sure they are on notice. If damage occurs, it will be easier for you or your insurance company to go after them.
This is from an Am Jur, which is a survey of American law:
A landowner who knows that a tree on one's property is decayed and may fall and damage the property of an adjoining landowner is under a duty to eliminate the danger1 even if the tree grew on and became part of the land by natural condition.2 Moreover, a landowner who knows or should know of a dangerous condition of a tree on one's property may be held liable for the injuries caused or damage done when the tree falls on an adjoining landowner's property.3 Specifically, a homeowner may prevail in a cause of action against an adjoining landowner whose tree destroyed the homeowner's home when the homeowner shows that the diseased condition of the tree was a defect which presented an unreasonable risk of harm to others, that the adjoining landowner should have known about the rotted condition of the heartwood in the tree, and that the exercise of reasonable care could have prevented the destruction of the homeowner's house.4 An owner or possessor of property, however, does not have a duty to remove healthy trees merely because the wind might knock them down in the absence of actual or constructive knowledge of defects affecting the trees.5
Liability may be imposed for damages to adjoining property from negligence in felling a tree where the tree does not fall on the adjoining land but rather in the street, disrupting utility service in the adjoining property and causing plaster to crack in the property.6
1 Am. Jur. 2d Adjoining Landowners 21
My bill is a win for the Ags against LSU, payable this year. Thanks.
Go drill holes in the trunk and then put some of that stump dissolver in it. Put guy wires on it so that when it falls it misses your property.
91AggieLawyer said:
The reason the lawyer hasn't sent that letter is that it would be like sending you a letter warning you that if you drove erratically tomorrow morning AND wrecked into his client AND caused his client injury, they'd be all over you. It is way too speculative. I'm unaware of any legal duty a property owner owe another one to cut down a tree, even a dead one. Saying something COULD cause harm is like the potential auto accident above.
Anyway, what would you do if you got a demand letter like this? Cower in fear or throw it in the trash? What if you either couldn't afford to take down the tree or for whatever other reason had no intention of doing so?
Cannot blue star this enough.
Burdizzo said:rootube said:
Tell your neighbor that you are going to hire someone to cut down the tree and that they will be on his property on a certain date and will need access. After the tree is down (Or before/during) you can discuss payment. He may pay part of it or none of it but the cost of removing the tree may preferable to a fight with your neighbor plus legal costs. If he does not agree to give access then get a lawyer. I would consider a lawyer the very last resort. If you pursue legal remedy you may end up paying the lawyer the tree service money and now you have a neighbor who is your mortal enemy. Sucks but it sounds like you are the one who wants the tree gone and he could care less.
This is a terribly bad idea.
First, going on someone else's property to do work like this without proper permission opens you up to criminal activity. You and your agent are on his property destroying something that belongs to him without him agreeing to it.
Second, if something bad happens as a result of you or your contractor, you are now on the wrong end of the problem.
Third, no contractor with a lick of business sense is going to agree to do this.
This is literally the first step in what I am calling my brilliant plan to deal with your neighbor that I have no particular experience with or knowledge about but am willing to throw out ideas out like they were chips at a casino. Who the hell knows maybe the guy is too lazy to hire it out and he says great. My whole point is that a lawyer should be the very last resort and will bring equal parts expense and aggravation. As long as there is still an avenue to discuss with the neighbor that is the best path and I am an expert tree surgeon so my words carry weight in the dead tree community even if they are grammatically incorrect as NRD09 has so painfully pointed out.Quote:
Tell your neighbor that you are going to hire someone to cut down the tree
rootube said:Burdizzo said:rootube said:
Tell your neighbor that you are going to hire someone to cut down the tree and that they will be on his property on a certain date and will need access. After the tree is down (Or before/during) you can discuss payment. He may pay part of it or none of it but the cost of removing the tree may preferable to a fight with your neighbor plus legal costs. If he does not agree to give access then get a lawyer. I would consider a lawyer the very last resort. If you pursue legal remedy you may end up paying the lawyer the tree service money and now you have a neighbor who is your mortal enemy. Sucks but it sounds like you are the one who wants the tree gone and he could care less.
This is a terribly bad idea.
First, going on someone else's property to do work like this without proper permission opens you up to criminal activity. You and your agent are on his property destroying something that belongs to him without him agreeing to it.
Second, if something bad happens as a result of you or your contractor, you are now on the wrong end of the problem.
Third, no contractor with a lick of business sense is going to agree to do this.This is literally the first step in what I am calling my brilliant plan to deal with your neighbor that I have no particular experience with or knowledge about but am willing to throw out ideas out like they were chips at a casino. Who the hell knows maybe the guy is too lazy to hire it out and he says great. My whole point is that a lawyer should be the very last resort and will bring equal parts expense and aggravation. As long as there is still an avenue to discuss with the neighbor that is the best path and I am an expert tree surgeon so my words carry weight.Quote:
Tell your neighbor that you are going to hire someone to cut down the tree
Insurance and lawyers - everyone hates them until they need them.
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