Hi everyone, I've been a lurker for a long time but I've never posted here.

I'm looking to see if anyone has had some of the same hearing isssues I've had and what type of doctor helped diagnose you or help you out. I feel like outdoorsman would be the most likely to be able to relate being a big problem for me is shooting now.

Here's what I've got going on. About a year ago I noticed my ears getting hurt real bad after I raced my stock car. It was a new car to me with a new header set up so I just figured it was ringing my ears. Tried several types of plugs under my helmet with no help. Went to the Audiologist and ENT and my left ear was in bad shape (which I've known for awhile with the tinnitus I have) but my right wasn't that bad. I quit racing but started noticing that my ears would get the inflamed (bad sun burn or bad head cold) type feeling from other things. Mainly shooting. I've bought electronic ear muffs and have worn ear plugs under them. Still no relief. Went back to a new ENT last week and he kinda threw his hands up in the air and suggested a neurologist. The last ENT had a MRI done so I know it's not a tumor or anything weird like that. I can get this feeling from talking real loud as well but not as bad, I tend to talk loud a lot because my left ear is in bad shape. The ENT says this shouldn't be happening with hearing protection on. I feel like it's the vibrations or pressure changes that are getting me.

My ears hurt so bad that I almost feel like I've got a cold when it happens. Burning sensation, popping, cloudiness, and even some drainage.

Someone on another site suggested a neuro-otologist which there aren't many around but I've found one to see. So far I haven't been able to find any other person who has tinnitus or other heating problems that has the same symptoms I do. It'd be nice to find that and figure out how you fixed it or helped it. So far doctors have been no help.

Where are you located?

In Austin.

I'm not sure why the winky face is on there.

TMJ? See an oral surgeon and get a panorex. What glasses are you using? Are you clenching your jaw when you shoot?

Just a couple ideas I am throwing out there.

Wearing ear muffs over earplugs only gives you 3 or 4 more decibels of protection. I was really surprised recently when I learned of this. Might be why it didn't make much difference. Wish I had an answer for your issues.

One of our regular posters had a really good post in the last year on this topic. He had been examined and treated by a well known expert in this area.

Not sure his symptoms and condition were exactly the same as yours though. I think it was a post with "electronic hearing protection" or something like that in the title. Might try to search the forum for that thread. Sorry to hear about your issues. Look forward to seeing what the rest of the board has to say.

That's awesome! That's who I found today when doing a search and planned on calling his office tomorrow!

Thanks!

Some further info. The reason doubling up does not give you double protection is because regardless what you do the mastoid bone transfers sound very efficiently to the inner ear. So plugs only do so much and the sound is still getting to you inner ear. To minimize this you should wear a large muff that covers as much of the mastoid bone behind your ear as possible.
Also always shoot with your moth closed as sound can travel to your ear through your mouth/eustacion tube.
The only real way to shoot large calibers without eventually having ear damage is a30-33 NRR muff or plug and a suppressed weapon, regardless of the BS you hear.
Guys wearing 25-26 DB plugs or muffs only are still getting hearing damage.

He is the man! Damn genius. He fixed my wife's issues after she went to three ENT's
She was totally mis diagnosed and Dr. Kemper figured it out in one trip.
You will be in great hands!

He also has a Doctor of Audiology in his office named Jennica. Unlike most audiologist, she is a true Doctor of Audiology and sharp as hell as well.
Tell them the Aggie by Junction recommended them.

Gunny is the poster I was remembering from the other thread. Looks like he's hooked you up. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

TH36, welcome from a fellow FF member (Toledo). There's a handful of us here. Glad you found someone to see. I really like Dr Patki in Houston. I feel he was the only person to correctly diagnose me (PPPD for anyone wanting some light reading) but so far his treatment hasn't really helped. I have a follow up with him next month but if he's out of ideas, I'll likely pursue Dr Kemper. Thanks for the recommendation Gunny!

Hey Toledo, you're the one that set me down the path to find a otologist so all thanks to you! I'm just hoping I can find some help.

The tinnitus doesn't bother me, it's bad in my left ear but I definitely live with it just fine. It's the fact I'm 31 years old and Have had to give up racing that I've been around since age 9 and even worse at the moment I don't care to hunt cause shooting these last few times has been so painful. I've got no problem giving up the racing but hunting I can't live with giving up.

If I could get this burning stuff under control that would be awesome.

Gunny, just curious but what kind of ear problems are you suffering from and they helped you with?

Well I was very similar to you. Been racing outboards since 16. Shooting all my life and around loud equipment.
I have had tinnitus since about 16 but it never bothered me much.
Then in 2000 one day both ears just shut down. Almost total deafness. Then pain behind my ears and developed extreme hyperacousis. Then 5 weeks later my balance went to hell and the tinnitus became unbearable. I went 21 days with basically no sleep. I had Two MRI's to rule out brain tumors.
Started having extreme pressure dealing in my ears. After 6 weeks of ENT's was sent to Dr. Krueger.
Extensive testing. Ear drums cut to allow electrodes to be placed in my inner ear. Hearing came back to 40% in one ear and 50% in the other. Tinnitus is always unbelievably loud 24/7.
Then I would have periods of almost total deafness and very loud mid range tone tinnitus that would like a car horn 10 ft away.
Dr. Kemper figured it out and I am on a type of di- uretic everday to keep fluid out of inner ear and much better but tinnitus still loud. Hard to sleep and rest.

Gunny456 said:

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You need an Otologist/neurologist. Very few around. I have very bad ear issues. I drive 4 hours one way to see Dr. James Kemper. He is in Austin. One of the best ear doctors in the world.
His daughters went to A&M. He is also a hunter/shooter.
He saved my life.
You should always double up on plugs and muffs. One poster was not really right on a comment.
If say you wear a 30 nrr plug and a 26 nrr muff you will get 35 nrr total.
It will be 5db over the highest rating of the two.
Custom plugs are not what they advertise as your ear canal changes size day to day.
Good luck friend. Do yourself a favor and go to Dr. Kemper. I screwed around for months going to regular ENT's and would have maybe saved a lot of hearing if I would have gone to him, an Otologist first. He studied under Dr. Wes Krueger who basically taught Dr's across the US on Cochlea implants and other major hearing and balance issues.
Dr. Krueger retired and all his patients transfer all over the US to Dr. Kemper.
His phone is 512-836-8786.
Prayers for you.

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Most people look at the nrr of both earplugs and earmuffs thinking you add them and that is your protection. I was just trying to explain that isnt how it works. Probably should have added a little more detail, but didnt think it was that important. My conversation about this was with an industrial hygienist and he said in real world situations double hearing protection really only adds 3 or 4 db's of protection over the higher of the two ratings. You say its 5 db. I think we're splitting hairs here, but ok.

With as bad as your issues are, you should really get the process rolling on suppressors. Tinnitus is part of my problem and Ive gotten to where I rarely shoot without a suppressor AND ear plugs. I have a 21" super 90 with a salvo you'd be welcome to try if you like. Its not perfect but Ive had no problem bagging limits of ducks with it. Be worth seeing if it prevents the flair ups. I even worked up a subsonic 1 1/2 oz steel load for it but got sidetracked and never submitted it for pressure testing. Green dot powder, a chrono, and an old shotgun in a vice with a string tied to the trigger for firing. Velocity was consistent and I suspect pressure is no problem but I don't want to put the load info out there until its pressure tested.

When you see Dr Kemper, ask them about a hearing aid for your tinnitus. Tinnitus is your brain telling you that a frequency, that used to be there, is missing due to hearing loss. No one is born with tinnitus. The thought is they can tune the hearing aid to that missing frequency, your brain settles down, and the tinnitus improves. Ive been wearing one for a month or so now. My tinnitus has improved. I cant say for sure that the hearing aid has done it but I failed to wear it for about a day and half two days ago and my left ear is still screaming right now.

I bought suppressors and had a 300WM built to use with a suppressor to save my hearing.

And +1 on plugs and muffs.

Did Dr. K recommend a specific type of in the ear plug or are any of the rollable and disposable plugs ok?

My working plane is 124 dB in the cockpit on takeoff 116 dB continuous according to a phone app, unbelievably loud regardless. I double up with plugs and the ear cups in my helmet, and can tell right away if I have an earplug dislodge. The vibrations Gunny describe can be felt immediately, very uncomfortable until you can cram it back in your ear.

Do what you can to save your hearing, I'm 30 and mine is shot from botched surgery and loud equipment. I do everything I can to preserve what I have left.

I experienced sudden hearing loss (right ear) in February, 2015. I had a cold a week or so before - had been using a Neti Pot - and had been spent several hours shooting at ASC (used plugs and muffs) the day before it occurred. I also played in garage bands and fired guns without hearing protection (a lot) in my younger days - many of us did back then. Guess I was a prime candidate for hearing problems. I just woke up at 2:00 AM one morning with my ear screaming (tinnitus). Within an hour I was also having equilibrium issues - bed spins without the alcohol. Hearing in that ear when downhill fast. Doctors suspected an acoustic neuroma but tests showed nothing there. My equilibrium issues settled down (took about a month) but the tinnitus (a high frequency ring) did not. It drove me crazy for a while but I eventually got used to it (sorta). I still have some low frequency (< 500 hz) response in the bad ear but the rest is pretty well shot. The left ear has tested normal for my age.

I've been following the progress of this company:

https://www.frequencytx.com/

...hoping their work bears fruit in the future. Results so far have been positive but they are still very early in testing and development.

Good luck to the OP and everybody else having hearing issues. They are not much fun.

You are correct. Again, not really the point I was trying to make. I wasnt saying it didn't matter. Maybe that's how it came across. Honestly to me it's hard to believe that wearing double hearing protection always adds 5 db of protection exactly to the higher nrr. Someone I talked to believed it was 4, gunny said 5. I don't think it would be crazy that either is correct. Usually what I've seen in the past is a range like say 4-8 or 5-7 extra db's of protection when wearing double hearing protection.

Good luck OP!

He recommended the Howard Leight 33 NRR orange plug. He stressed they must be put in correctly.
He then said for me to also wear a 30NRR or better muff that covered as much of the mastoid bone as possible.

Otologist said it was because the sound is not just going through the ear canal but also mastoid bone, skull bones, eustacheon tube.
So the plugs and muffs combo only help what is going through ear canal.
He explained that the nosiest environment known is on the deck of an aircraft carrier.
He said the helmet the deck crews wear are designed with sound deadening material to cover as much bone as possible. Plus they have built in muffs and they must wear plugs as well.
That would be great protection for us shooters but helmet sure would be hot and get in way of the stock.

I've always been curious about stuffing earplugs or muffs on my ears when shooting because I wonder about the damage caused from the weapons concussion due to having you cheek welded to the stock. Is that significant ? Seems there is nothing to really combat that damage if any.

Gunny456 said:

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Well I was very similar to you. Been racing outboards since 16. Shooting all my life and around loud equipment.
I have had tinnitus since about 16 but it never bothered me much.
Then in 2000 one day both ears just shut down. Almost total deafness. Then pain behind my ears and developed extreme hyperacousis. Then 5 weeks later my balance went to hell and the tinnitus became unbearable. I went 21 days with basically no sleep. I had Two MRI's to rule out brain tumors.
Started having extreme pressure dealing in my ears. After 6 weeks of ENT's was sent to Dr. Krueger.
Extensive testing. Ear drums cut to allow electrodes to be placed in my inner ear. Hearing came back to 40% in one ear and 50% in the other. Tinnitus is always unbelievably loud 24/7.
Then I would have periods of almost total deafness and very loud mid range tone tinnitus that would like a car horn 10 ft away.
Dr. Kemper figured it out and I am on a type of di- uretic everday to keep fluid out of inner ear and much better but tinnitus still loud. Hard to sleep and rest.

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Meant to update this last week but I got an appt to see Dr.Kemper. I've gotta wait till October but I'm excited to see what he'll say/find. Hopefully some good news.

I love the OB.