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Paragon Pipeline

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Doc Hayworth
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6:27a, 1/23/19
Anyone else here get a notice of a possible pipeline from this company. It appears they they want to conduct all types of assessments of the property to include the survey, environmental, archeological, endangered species, etc.
Pipeline is to run from west Texas thru Central, down to Brazoria County.

Is this something me and the rest of my family, that owns adjoining tracts, should hire an attorney for?
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The Fall Guy
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6:52a, 1/23/19
AG
That is part of the one going right thru the damn Hill country. 1st 1 to do so. Right thru Gillespie, Blanco, and Hays.

The hill country will be permanately changed. This is just 1 of many.
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Agmechanic
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6:52a, 1/23/19
AG
do a search on here. There was a fairly long post about this very thing (might not have been a pipeline butnit was some kind of easement). Long story short, when they approach you with contracts and start wanting access, I'd have an attorney at the ready.
a gmechanic 01@gma i l (no spaces)
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Ragoo
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In reply to The Fall Guy • 7:12a, 1/23/19
AG
The Fall Guy said:
That is part of the one going right thru the damn Hill country. 1st 1 to do so. Right thru Gillespie, Blanco, and Hays.

The hill country will be permanately changed. This is just 1 of many.
why the thumbs down and why do you think the hill country will change permanently?
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oklaunion
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7:12a, 1/23/19
The way we have handled it when either a pipeline or power line company approached us the last 25 years is to allow access to survey a proposed R.O.W./easement. Allow them to make an offer in writing. Sit on it and allow them to come back with their written 'final' offer. Many times this is 2x the initial offer.

Then, contact a reputable attorney in your area who has negotiated these deals. A good attorney will propose to negotiate a deal in exchange for around 30% of the difference between the final negotiated price and your previous highest offer. In my opinion, if you hire an attorney too early, you may be leaving cash on the table. At least cash that could have found its way into your pocket.
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Mas89
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In reply to Ragoo • 7:20a, 1/23/19
AG
Because once you have one or more pipelines on your property you will have perpetual problems with roads, gates, fences and unwanted mofos on your property. It gets old real fast.
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Ragoo
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In reply to Mas89 • 7:25a, 1/23/19
AG
Mas89 said:
Because once you have one or more pipelines on your property you will have perpetual problems with roads, gates, fences and unwanted mofos on your property. It gets old real fast.
if you have utility that requires periodic maintenance you will get compensated for that access. Most pipeline doesn't need that level of access.

It is a very different animal than an EPC wanting to drill wells.

Don't turn into some northeast hippie dipper scared of the big bad pipeline.

Pipelines are a very good thing, if for not other reason than they significantly reduce the amount of transport needed by truck or rail.
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Mas89
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In reply to Doc Hayworth • 7:28a, 1/23/19
AG
Yes, you need a good eminent domain attorney to represent you from the beginning. Do not let anyone on your property without a signed right of entry agreement prepared by an experienced e.d. Attorney. This will cover things you would probably never consider.

Highly reccomend Justin Hodge in Houston. He is from a ranching family and does a great job. He previously worked for V&E and now is a partner in his firm.
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The Fall Guy
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In reply to Ragoo • 7:43a, 1/23/19
AG
I work in pipelines and this one I don't like. They can go further south and connect to existing lines but they are going straight though the hill country. Ever tried to lay pipe in limestone and marble. Bery expensive and more destruction than Sandy soil.
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The Fall Guy
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7:47a, 1/23/19
AG
Also giving a crap about a states Beauty is not being a hippie. Move on from the 1960s.
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Ragoo
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In reply to The Fall Guy • 7:49a, 1/23/19
AG
They are laying a big 42" up in Virginia. Outside of cutting the ROW it won't ever be noticed again.
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Stan Crowch
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7:52a, 1/23/19
AG
My good friend Alex is an eminent domain attorney. He is out of Houston but works pipeline cases all over the state. Would highly recommend reaching out to him on this stuff.

https://www.padualaw.com/blog/what-are-the-pipeline-easement-rates-in-texas/
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Doc Hayworth
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7:54a, 1/23/19
My main concern is the burdening of the property and being subject to it's rules and regulations. This is land we have had since it was homesteaded in 1878 and I don't particularly like the idea of a bunch of pipe being laid through it.
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Doc Hayworth
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In reply to Ragoo • 7:56a, 1/23/19
Pipelines, unnecessary easements, etc, have the habit of affecting property values. No one wants that crap cutting through their property.
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The Fall Guy
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In reply to Ragoo • 8:00a, 1/23/19
AG
Except for the big scar of cutting the trees out and the 100 ft corridor on each side of the centerline. It puts a permanent scar
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aggiedent
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8:00a, 1/23/19
AG
Quote:
Also giving a crap about a states Beauty is not being a hippie. Move on from the 1960s.

Amen. You can't say one thing about the environment without being accused of being a left wing hippie. No, it's called being an adult who values the natural beauty of our state, among other environmental concerns.
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Ragoo
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In reply to Doc Hayworth • 8:03a, 1/23/19
AG
Doc Hayworth said:
Pipelines, unnecessary easements, etc, have the habit of affecting property values. No one wants that crap cutting through their property.
if property has been in your family since 1878 what do you care about a possible albeit unlikely change in property value? Liquidating the property shouldn't be in your mind, right?

I honestly think people get way too worked up over a pipeline. We are not talking a roadway or a rail line.

They come in, cut the ROW, dig a a trench, weld some pipe sticks together, cover, and move on.
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Doc Hayworth
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8:03a, 1/23/19
That's another concern. I have a draw they would have to cross, containing a few hundred Heritage oaks and elms. I would guess they're closing in on 200 yrs in age.
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KaneIsAble
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8:10a, 1/23/19
AG
Then make them go around you.
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tlh3842
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In reply to Doc Hayworth • 8:12a, 1/23/19
AG
Then just say no. You're coming up with numerous reasons to say no, but you haven't listed any pros. Just tell them thanks but no thanks. Depending on the parcel layout, you may be watching construction on your neighbors property but at least you didn't have to compromise your beliefs.
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Allen76
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In reply to The Fall Guy • 8:24a, 1/23/19
AG
The Fall Guy said:
That is part of the one going right thru the damn Hill country. 1st 1 to do so. Right thru Gillespie, Blanco, and Hays.

The hill country will be permanately changed. This is just 1 of many.
Not sure if you are talking about a certain size, or type of pipeline. Because there are definitely others. One in particular was cut next to our family ranch in about 1960 and it was for natural gas.

As far as I can tell it did very minimal change to the hill country. Although they cut a very large "right-of'way" swath, that is about all you can see. And you never see any pipeline people driving. I think they must check it by airplane?

Location: Bexar,Medina, counties..... pipeline runs from Northwest to Southeast into San Antonio....not sure where the northern end of it is located.
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mwlkr
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In reply to The Fall Guy • 8:30a, 1/23/19
AG
The Fall Guy said:
That is part of the one going right thru the damn Hill country. 1st 1 to do so. Right thru Gillespie, Blanco, and Hays.

The hill country will be permanately changed. This is just 1 of many.
This is incorrect. Kinder-Morgan has two lines that run through Mason County to Gillespie County to Hays County. One is the old Longhorn and one (I believe) was a Shell line.
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MouthBQ98
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8:33a, 1/23/19
AG
Why the hell would they go through limestone instead of a route with a much deeper layer of surface alluvial and soil?
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schmellba99
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In reply to The Fall Guy • 8:34a, 1/23/19
AG
The Fall Guy said:
Except for the big scar of cutting the trees out and the 100 ft corridor on each side of the centerline. It puts a permanent scar
Because those high fences and ever expanding municipalities are natural historic beautification items?

It would be nice if there was a map showing path, instead it ends up being "we don't want those danged ole pipelines no matter what!!!!" type of comments.

We have pipelines all over the place down here, farmers farm over them, we use them for access to areas we ordinarily wouldn't have access too, landowners get some upgrades to their property as part of the compensation to get pipelines installed. I fully am aware that down here on the coast is a different terrain than the hill country, but the hill country isn't some sacred cow that is untouchable either. Lord knows the folks in Austin and SA love the hell out of the products and benefits of industry that is driven by feedstocks from those pipelines.

At least with pipelines you arent nearly as limited on usage after the fact as you are with easements and ROW's for roads, power lines, railroads or the 100% permantent lack of use from master planned communities.
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Ragoo
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In reply to MouthBQ98 • 8:41a, 1/23/19
AG
MouthBQ98 said:
Why the hell would they go through limestone instead of a route with a much deeper layer of surface alluvial and soil?
most go around.

If going to Houston/Mont Belvieu the line runs along I-20 then loops down.

If going to corpus the lines will run south towards del rio then cut across.

See gulf coast express
Grand Prix
Etc
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schmellba99
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8:44a, 1/23/19
AG
And looking at the Texas RR Commission map, there are multiple pipelines that cross the hill country area. Lost of NG lines already.
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Kurt Gowdy
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8:50a, 1/23/19
AG
Quote:
Pipelines, unnecessary easements, etc, have the habit of affecting property values.
Common misconception. It feels good to say this but the data says otherwise.
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tamc93
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8:58a, 1/23/19
AG
Different spin on an issue we are starting to see on the one crossing our property -

Pedestrian Corridor from the south to I-10
FJB, FPA, and FAZ
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Burdizzo
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In reply to Ragoo • 9:02a, 1/23/19
AG
Ragoo said:
They are laying a big 42" up in Virginia. Outside of cutting the ROW it won't ever be noticed again.


Unless it is on your property and creates an encumbrance that negatively impact your value. You can try to put a value on it, but when the easement is there in perpetuity it is hard to put a value on the impact 100 years from now.

That said, 100 years ago hill country land wasn't worth much because it was mostly rock that no one wanted. It was only recently (last 50 years or so) that people figure out what the groundwater was worth and had disposable income to spend on nice views (assuming you can tolerate the cedar pollen)
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Stan Crowch
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In reply to KaneIsAble • 9:05a, 1/23/19
AG
KaneIsAble said:
Then make them go around you.
Its not always a choice.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to Kurt Gowdy • 9:07a, 1/23/19
AG
Kurt Gowdy said:
Quote:
Pipelines, unnecessary easements, etc, have the habit of affecting property values.
Common misconception. It feels good to say this but the data says otherwise.


I guess everyone looks for value where they want. If I were in the market for a tract of land, the first question I ask is if the mineral rights come with it, and the second question I ask is if there are any easements on it.
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Furlock Bones
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9:24a, 1/23/19
AG
If there are determined to go through your property, they will whether you like it or not.

Have a good attorney and push them hard.
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bkag9824
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In reply to Ragoo • 9:27a, 1/23/19
AG
No real dog in this fight, but I think you're oversimplifying a rather complex issue. Fall Guy and Doc Hayworth have hit on but a few of the concerns property owners might have.

I'm in OG and believe we need robust facilities/capabilities, but landowners have every right to be skeptical and/or not want this run through their property for whatever reason they can come up with.
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Agmechanic
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9:33a, 1/23/19
AG
To bolster/counter some points here:

My mom owns 500 acres in Jolly. There are 5 pipelines that criss-cross our property. They have been there since the 40's-50's. We have people in and out of our ranch at least 3-4 times a year. They never call, never go knock on the door, nothing. Most landmen, row guys will say everyone will get contacted/compensated but unless you get it in writing, SPECIFICALLY laid out in the contract, They are not going to do anything. It does not matter if it is Plains, ATMOS, Enterprise, anyone. Pipeliners and maintentance guys Have a right to lay/maintain the lines but very little respect is given to the landowner that gave them that right. And they will disregard any wishes of the landowner. I've had them be downright rude and disrespectful and had to get corporate guys involved.

The good is that we have never had to buy pipe for fence posts. They come in and workover a line and I get all the 8' joints of 6-8" pipe I can handle.
a gmechanic 01@gma i l (no spaces)
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MouthBQ98
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9:45a, 1/23/19
AG
On a large acreage, the effect is smaller. On a small property, where it would more severely limit where structures or modifications could be located, it would be a major impediment.
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