Have you used a "standard" Aero precision upper and lower with a nice barrel in 20" or longer and made the same test as you have for the "E" version to assess comparative accuracy? I'm trying to get a feel for the premium cost and limited options.

BrazosDog02 said:

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Have you used a "standard" Aero precision upper and lower with a nice barrel in 20" or longer and made the same test as you have for the "E" version to assess comparative accuracy? I'm trying to get a feel for the premium cost and limited options.

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Keep in mind, barrel length isn't what really determines precision. Gives better velocity, which can have a very small affect on precision, but that's not what determines it. The same barrel, cut from 26" down to 16" and recrowned identically will have the same groupings at a given distance. I'm looking for it now, but Chuck Hawks did a great article on this where they did just that.

The E version shouldn't really be inherently more accurate, but you have less going on with it so the path to high precision is going to be easier. Essentially, the barrel nut does less work in that it ONLY holds the barrel on. This means weight from the handguard will go directly to support from the upper and any small problems from the handguard fitting won't affect the barrel. Now, with a good quality handguard on a standard system with a good upper, you'll get there as well, but you just have to be more careful in how you are putting everything together. Precision is a "death by a thousand papercuts" situation so every small thing you can eliminate or make easier will make the system easier to make more precise.

So we got one vote for a Faxon barrel. Eyeguy any barrels you recommend? I know you use or did use Odin for your 6.5 Grendels

Furlock Bones said:

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So we got one vote for a Faxon barrel. Eyeguy any barrels you recommend? I know you use or did use Odin for your 6.5 Grendels

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Faxon is good stuff. Only reason I don't use them is cost. Their dealer pricing is not very good so it makes the rifles appear to be more expensive. Ballistic Advantage is the definite go to in the shop. As far as I'm concerned, best quality/price combo out there, though I always am looking to be wrong. If I am, I'll be excited sort of deal! Odin is my favorite for Grendels and that's what I personally use.

OK. I think I understand. I just threw the barrel in there because that is the length I prefer for what I am doing with mine in particular. I had planned on using the Ballistic Advantage as you have always seemed to like, but I have not seen a screaming deal pop up anywhere (and I have not been looking since I'm not there yet). Thanks for the info! So, what can you do to maximize accuracy on a standard M5 build? I mean, it seemed to me you are essentially building a lego house with various brands of legos. You're just putting all the prebuilt pieces together. So, for the upper and lower, what can you do aside from 'put them together' to achieve more accuracy? Perhaps I am way off base here, but that's why I'm asking!

BrazosDog02 said:

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OK. I think I understand. I just threw the barrel in there because that is the length I prefer for what I am doing with mine in particular. I had planned on using the Ballistic Advantage as you have always seemed to like, but I have not seen a screaming deal pop up anywhere (and I have not been looking since I'm not there yet). Thanks for the info! So, what can you do to maximize accuracy on a standard M5 build? I mean, it seemed to me you are essentially building a lego house with various brands of legos. You're just putting all the prebuilt pieces together. So, for the upper and lower, what can you do aside from 'put them together' to achieve more accuracy? Perhaps I am way off base here, but that's why I'm asking!

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Ballistic is on black market... sold several through there... pretty damned good prices on them.

Well, being more accurate... first thing is go through and get the manufacturers specs on building, get a torque wrench and tighten things down to that spec. Also make sure your components are all good product. Your barrel and BCG are going to be the most important parts in regards to innate precision of a rifle with the trigger being the next thing that will help the shooter being precise. After you are done, barrel break in.

You can also lap the receiver to make the fit of the barrel to the upper slightly better but that's something I only do on specific builds.

BrazosDog02 said:

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OK. I think I understand. I just threw the barrel in there because that is the length I prefer for what I am doing with mine in particular. I had planned on using the Ballistic Advantage as you have always seemed to like, but I have not seen a screaming deal pop up anywhere (and I have not been looking since I'm not there yet). Thanks for the info! So, what can you do to maximize accuracy on a standard M5 build? I mean, it seemed to me you are essentially building a lego house with various brands of legos. You're just putting all the prebuilt pieces together. So, for the upper and lower, what can you do aside from 'put them together' to achieve more accuracy? Perhaps I am way off base here, but that's why I'm asking!

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Better question to ask, how precise do you want this thing? Sub MOA? 3/4? 1/2? Getting 1/2 is slightly being lucky after buying premium parts. Being sub MOA is mainly a factor of spending a moderate amount of money to get good quality parts along with a better than average barrel.

Furlock Bones said:

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So we got one vote for a Faxon barrel. Eyeguy any barrels you recommend? I know you use or did use Odin for your 6.5 Grendels

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Depends on your budget. You can spend more and get better barrels. I have a Shillen barrel on my Grendel, and Eyeguy can tell you how good of a tack driver it is.

Reasonably precise is what I'm after. Sub MOA (or close ish) I think is reasonable. Can that be achieved with Aero and BA barrels or am I looking at more premium stuff ?

BrazosDog02 said:

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Reasonably precise is what I'm after. Sub MOA (or close ish) I think is reasonable. Can that be achieved with Aero and BA barrels or am I looking at more premium stuff ?

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You're good to go there

BrazosDog02 said:

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Have you used a "standard" Aero precision upper and lower with a nice barrel in 20" or longer and made the same test as you have for the "E" version to assess comparative accuracy? I'm trying to get a feel for the premium cost and limited options.

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That is exactly what I am doing by moving the 16" barrel from the E1 to a standard M5 receiver with their proprietary barrel nut and Atlas HG. BCG is moving also, so the only thing changing is the barrel/receiver interface.

I will have an update for you this week after I shoot it. Maybe tomorrow if I get time.

BA has a great reputation. Faxon does too, just never used them before now...but I am impressed so far. Both can get you under MOA if you and the rest of the components are up to it. (I say You, because the loose nut behind the trigger is a big issue.)

Criterion is the next step up. So is Krieger. I have two 5.56 uppers with Lilja barrels that shoot so well they are embarrassed I own them. An AR is the barrel and the Trigger. Not much else matters accuracy wise.

Spend money on a good trigger. It makes all the difference in the world. Mark's MBT is a great value and a very good trigger. Close to great, for 1/3 the price of great.

Edit to add...on a build one thing, really the only thing, is to fit the barrel extension to the receiver. First try several receivers until you find one that is more snug on your barrel extension. Then bed the extension to the receiver on assembly. Most use Blue locktight. This keeps the barrel from moving in the extension due to slack in the nut/extension/receiver interface.

Blue locktite bed my barrel ???? Please elaborate!

Blue works. 620 works.

Several makers make over size barrel extensions (WOA and I think BAT). Even BCM machines their receiver extentions a couple thousands undersize to do the same thing.

Order placed. Looks like I'll be chatting with EyeGuy about some build specs.

What's the ideal twist rate for AR10s? I'm not as well versed in them as I am AR15s, so this build is going to be a learning experience.

308 or 6.5?

First time builder here. Bought the builder set in the OP. Paging eye guy to help me with the rest!

Looking for this to be a dedicated hog gun.

BCStalk said:

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308 or 6.5?

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308

frorge said:

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First time builder here. Bought the builder set in the OP. Paging eye guy to help me with the rest!

Looking for this to be a dedicated hog gun.

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Ok... Budget? Barrel length? Caliber? Use?

I run a 16" 1:10 BA barrel. I have had great grouping with everything from 125gr-178gr. I had the same in a 20" but switched it out after having length issues.

Budget: can I keep the remaining parts under $400, not including optics? If I need to go higher I can if there is a substantial increase in accuracy and reliability.

.308

Open on barrel length. I read your earlier post on not getting better accuracy. Is the only thing better about a longer barrel more velocity?

Hog rifle. Will probably end up putting NV on it. Hill country hunting. Nothing really over 200 yds

Well, it looks like I'm building an AR-10 in 6.5cm now. I guess I have a reason to order that SIG Tango6 5-30x56 with DEV-L reticle now too.

HUEY04 said:

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Well, it looks like I'm building an AR-10 in 6.5cm now. I guess I have a reason to order that SIG Tango6 5-30x56 with DEV-L reticle now too.

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Those things have been on close out lately. Amazing Scopes

frorge said:

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Budget: can I keep the remaining parts under $400, not including optics? If I need to go higher I can if there is a substantial increase in accuracy and reliability.

.308

Open on barrel length. I read your earlier post on not getting better accuracy. Is the only thing better about a longer barrel more velocity?

Hog rifle. Will probably end up putting NV on it. Hill country hunting. Nothing really over 200 yds

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You're going to want to spend more. Will touch base later tonight

TheEyeGuy said:

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frorge said:

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Budget: can I keep the remaining parts under $400, not including optics? If I need to go higher I can if there is a substantial increase in accuracy and reliability.

.308

Open on barrel length. I read your earlier post on not getting better accuracy. Is the only thing better about a longer barrel more velocity?

Hog rifle. Will probably end up putting NV on it. Hill country hunting. Nothing really over 200 yds

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You're going to want to spend more. Will touch base later tonight

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Can you even get a decent barrel for under $250? What's the cheapest a decent BCG will cost? I'm thinking those two items alone are going to get a person close to $400. Am I wrong?

DatTallArchitect said:

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TheEyeGuy said:

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frorge said:

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Budget: can I keep the remaining parts under $400, not including optics? If I need to go higher I can if there is a substantial increase in accuracy and reliability.

.308

Open on barrel length. I read your earlier post on not getting better accuracy. Is the only thing better about a longer barrel more velocity?

Hog rifle. Will probably end up putting NV on it. Hill country hunting. Nothing really over 200 yds

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You're going to want to spend more. Will touch base later tonight

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Can you even get a decent barrel for under $250? What's the cheapest a decent BCG will cost? I'm thinking those two items alone are going to get a person close to $400. Am I wrong?

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You're right.

Don't want to step on eyeguy making money...but Primary Arms has a new 3-18 with Horus style reticle set up for 6.5CM. The scope and reticle is all mil radians (turrets also) and based on a couple of others I have tried it looks promising.

I run Mk5's and HDMRs which I can get for about $1100, but their price on a close copy is very intriguing.

Twist rates on .308 is either 1-10 or 1-8. 1-10 is the most common for general use. On Friday I put ten rounds of 168 OTM into a .4ish group out of a 700 with a Proof barrel in a Magpul chassis...I need to figure this pic hosting thing out...

Puryear Playboy said:

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Don't want to step on eyeguy making money...but Primary Arms has a new 3-18 with Horus style reticle set up for 6.5CM. The scope and reticle is all mil radians (turrets also) and based on a couple of others I have tried it looks promising.

I run Mk5's and HDMRs which I can get for about $1100, but their price on a close copy is very intriguing.

Twist rates on .308 is either 1-10 or 1-8. 1-10 is the most common for general use. On Friday I put ten rounds of 168 OTM into a .4ish group out of a 700 with a Proof barrel in a Magpul chassis...I need to figure this pic hosting thing out...

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Pic hosting... Download imgur app and upload from phone. It's pretty easy and I think they walk you through it the first time

frorge said:

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Budget: can I keep the remaining parts under $400, not including optics? If I need to go higher I can if there is a substantial increase in accuracy and reliability.

.308

Open on barrel length. I read your earlier post on not getting better accuracy. Is the only thing better about a longer barrel more velocity?

Hog rifle. Will probably end up putting NV on it. Hill country hunting. Nothing really over 200 yds

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Buildout through blackmarket.



The only area of "overbuy" here is the BCG. The bcg is a bit overkill but the cheapest one I can do through TBM. However, you're getting a very solid barrel and everything else is, at the very least, a good brand to work with. And spending a bit more on this to be a nibor BCG isn't the worst thing in the world. It's from Fail Zero and a very high quality one.

Now, where the prices vary compared to here with some of the build kits you'll find online. First will be barrel price. If you find a barrel for under $100 for a 308, it's going to be from Bear Creek. If you want to go down that road, go for it, but I wouldn't. AR10s are finicky enough as is and the problems that I've had from BCA are enough that I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole for an AR10. We charge extra for working on them for AR15s even. Had a customer bring a very nice looking 24" AR15 in this last week that he couldn't get to cycle with 556. It was a fluted, stainless steel bull barrel with a 223 wylde chamber and had the good ole "Made in the USA" engraved on it that is a signature of theirs. The BCG is also a bit more expensive but that is definitely one of the areas that I'd splurge on if it were me. When comparing other build kits out there, if they don't say who exactly made the parts, make damned sure you trust who it is. A no-name part may be built by toolcraft (which is good and usually will be marked as such) or it could be from China. And yes, there are chinese BCGs out there and they are very cheap and very crappy.

If you price every single part out, you'll probably find that most of these prices are going to be very good. I may not be the absolute cheapest on every part, but if you're in Texas, you'll see these within a couple days of ordering and the fact that you won't have to pay up to eight different shipping fees should help even things out.

Puryear Playboy said:

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Don't want to step on eyeguy making money...but Primary Arms has a new 3-18 with Horus style reticle set up for 6.5CM. The scope and reticle is all mil radians (turrets also) and based on a couple of others I have tried it looks promising.

I run Mk5's and HDMRs which I can get for about $1100, but their price on a close copy is very intriguing.

Twist rates on .308 is either 1-10 or 1-8. 1-10 is the most common for general use. On Friday I put ten rounds of 168 OTM into a .4ish group out of a 700 with a Proof barrel in a Magpul chassis...I need to figure this pic hosting thing out...

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Is that one of their Platinum line scopes or one of the others that is coming out of China? The Chinese do have some good optics so that isn't a bad thing in and of itself but does play into it. However, depending on use, decent chinese optics with an ideal reticle for the application can trump better optics and a not so awesome reticle.

You're the man! Question, how is that DPMS trigger? Worth to go go ahead and upgrade now?

frorge said:

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You're the man! Question, how is that DPMS trigger? Worth to go go ahead and upgrade now?

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I would but I'm a trigger snob

What is you're favorite trigger? Something you would put on you're own rifle ?