Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

---

For those talking about suing, Google "Texas One Bite Rule".

---

Yea, if I were a pitbull owner I wouldn't be staking everything on that law. Judges laugh at that one.

My neighbor has an unneutered pit bull. I was working in my yard next to our shared fence. The dog went crazy snarling and jumping on the fence. Sure glad the fence held.

Shortly after we moved in, the neighbor told me how once the dog wanted out of its yard so bad to get to a female that he hammered the gate latch so hard and repeatedly. Eventually broke the latch and got out.

I'd much prefer to not live next door to that dog. I have a GSD, and he wouldn't stand a chance.

BenderRodriguez said:

---

LEJ said:

---

Quote:

---

She lives in a nice part of Ft. Worth

---

Whenever people begin to realize that THIS MEANS NOTHING, only then will they be prepared to defend themselves at all times. I'm not perfect. I've found myself in similar situations. It sucks and it's easy to beat yourself up over it. Living in a nice part of town does not exempt you from "sht happens".

---

Yup.

But we still get snarky "if you need to a gun to walk your dog, move to a nicer neighborhood" derp every time someone talks about carrying every day.

---

Couldn't agree more with the above. Somebody attempted to sexually assault my wife on our driveway in the middle of the day in broad daylight. We don't live in a gated community full of million dollar mansions, but don't live in the ghetto either (guy who was the current mayor of the city of Katy at the time lives four houses down from me). My wife was already a CHL holder, but was complacent because she thought she was safe in her own driveway, and therefore wasn't armed at the time. Since the incident, she won't even go check the mailbox without carrying.


I know this has sorta morphed away from original thread about stupid dogs, but it's a point worth reiterating. Stop living in your bubble and realize that trouble can happen to anyone, anywhere, at any time.

Edit: wow, this post got long. Sorry about that. Here's the TL/DR version: "It's the owner" is not entirely accurate, but it plays a part. This is a dangerous breed, and not everyone should be able to own one.

Quote:

---

Unless we can enforce some nsurance requirements for owning these dogs and severe penalties when they attack (including prison time for the owners) there's not even a logical debate to be had about this.

---

I'm a pitbull owner (AmStaff now, previous dog was pit/lab mix), and I don't think you're too far off with this comment. I've even thought about some kind of license or qualifications to own one, but I can't quite figure out the logistics with that. Someone smarter than me would have to work that stuff out. I think the problem with penalties is that you'd have to have penalties for every dog owner, not just pits. I just don't think those penalties would hold up unless they were given out for every fatal dog attack for every breed. Prison time is a stretch in most cases, but there are stories I read that make me think that's not a terrible idea.

I'll give you the "sweetest dog ever" thing that everyone else says about their pit, but no way would I bet on it 100% of the time. It's a one-strike kind of dog. There are no second chances. If anything were to happen - to another dog, to another animal, or heaven forbid a person, young or old - I'd never be able to live with that. That's true of every medium-to-large breed, but it's the quickness and severity that can be different with these. Someone mentioned earlier that a family member restricts access to their pit, and that's one way to do it. My dog is never outside without her leash. She's never in my fenced backyard without me being right by her side. When we're on our walks, and a neighbor (or their kid) wants to pet her, my arms are wrapped around her while still holding the leash. She does great every time, but we don't get any mulligans if she doesn't.

That's for a 1-year-old AmStaff. Still just a pup, and obviously has never done anything to anyone besides lick them or challenge them to a game of tug. But I can't take any chances. For me, it has nothing to do with money or liability or the dog, it's about everyone else. It's a major responsibility, and it'll only get more serious as she continues to grow. I'm blown away by how strong and how fast she is. It's worth saying again: I've never had a dog with this kind of muscle. Honestly, I'd never be able to get there in time if I weren't constantly on top of her. There's also a constant need for training and reinforcement. Owning this type of dog is a job. I'll never quit doing that job as long as I have her. Not everyone makes that commitment though.

When someone says "it's the owner", it's important to note what they're really saying. Make no mistake about it - it's the breed. It wasn't always that way, but idiots have taken all the good that these dogs were known for and tried to breed it out of their system. Now it's like walking around with a loaded gun that can fire on its own. Good owners carry them safely, while morons juggle them and point them at people. When I say "it's the owner", I'm talking about an owner that has overlooked the risk, even if only for a second or two. I'm not saying the owner trained it to be a killer, I'm saying they let their guard down, and pit owners simply don't have that luxury.

Not everyone should be able to own one of these dogs. That doesn't make them all bad, and that doesn't mean all pit owners are stupid. But it requires your full attention 100% of the time, and it can be a lot of extra effort to make sure everyone is safe. Unfortunately, most "smart" owners usually get safer dogs while the people who can't even manage their own lives are somehow drawn to the idea of having this particular dog. Terrible combination.

My dog is not a weapon, or a tool, or a badge of honor, nor does she earn me any cool points on the street. She's a loving, fun, smart, family pet just like all the labs I had growing up. The difference is that people can get hurt if I ever take a day off. When we blame the owners, we're blaming people who have done just that.

I'm not going to post articles about labs killing kids (they're out there). I'm not going to post articles about pit bulls saving lives (it happens). Only a fool would say these things don't have the potential to be dangerous. But there are good dogs and good owners out there. It's just a matter of taking things seriously and paying attention. Then again, I've done that with every dog I've ever owned.

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

---

Never mind.

---

Im not suggesting it's a good rule or that anyone rely on it, but the First Bite/One Bite Rule is very much real.

There is a statutory process for having a dog declared dangerous/aggressive/nuisance in many municipalities/counties. If you're concerned about the neighborhood pit, follow those steps early before things escalate. Once declared dangerous, often times there are strict leash, penning and financial costs involved that may make the typical pit owner decided it's not worth the hassle of keeping the dog.

maverick12 said:

---

John Cocktolstoy said:

---

I could raise a lab to do the same thing that pit did, and could raise a pit to be as gentle as a lab. It is owners that raise these dogs to be this way and it is never going to change. Some of the sweetest dogs I have been around are pits, they just did not have their ears cut and trained to kill.

---

This ridiculous statement is probably my biggest issue with pit owners/lovers. You can train a pit all you want and it's not going to be a lab. When you see first hand one these "sweetest dogs ever" attack your dog, you see the falseness of your statement. Pit owners have a responsibility to understand the breed and what it's capable off and take the necessary precautions, but the vast majority chose not to do this, but instead, force the "sweetness" of their pit on others and endanger innocent people.

---

This is a much better way to say what I just rambled on about. As a pit owner, I agree with this post 100%.

aggiepaintrain said:

---

Did you or her call animal control?
I would insist the dog be destroyed then I would sue the life out of the owner.

---

Insist on them cutting off the head and sending it to a rabies lab.

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

---

For those talking about suing, Google "Texas One Bite Rule".

---

From the OP's comment about the complacency of the dog's owner, it sounds like the dog has gone after people before. If it has done that, even if it didn't bite, she should have known the dog was dangerous.

For the record I do not have or ever owned a pit...only family mutts and labs. For the jagoffs replying nasty things easy to do from the puter.

LEJ said:

---

Quote:

---

She lives in a nice part of Ft. Worth

---

Whenever people begin to realize that THIS MEANS NOTHING, only then will they be prepared to defend themselves at all times. I'm not perfect. I've found myself in similar situations. It sucks and it's easy to beat yourself up over it. Living in a nice part of town does not exempt you from "sht happens".

---

Agree to an extent but I was making more of a broad generalization that certain breeds of dogs are not common in that area. I would say that I wouldn't have been as surprised if this had occurred in a rougher part of town where pits are more common. Additionally, their neighborhood has restrictions against owning aggressive dog breeds so technically the dog should've never been there.

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

---

For those talking about suing, Google "Texas One Bite Rule".

---

While you're at it, google pet owner negligence laws.

• the dog's owner knew the dog had bitten someone before or had acted aggressively in the past, OR
• the dog's owner was negligent in controlling the dog or preventing the bite from occurring, and that negligence caused the plaintiff's injuries.

In this case, my sisters neighbor opened the door and let the dog run out into the street and attack her on a public sidewalk. My sister said the dog is always running around off it's leash and unsupervised.

The aggressiveness and ability to do damage could be bred out, but most breeders refuse to select primarily for temperament and still focus on look, or WORSE, breed FOR that temperament. It's insane. I know they don't want to destroy most of the value of their pups by having to keep them until they can be observed for a couple of years, and then neuter and spay (or euthanize) good conformation dogs because they don't have the right temperament but that's what it would take.

These dogs HAVE to be around experienced responsible owners that know how to control them, condition them, and keep them properly secured. They are not good dogs for inexperienced or irresponsible owners, let alone crappy people.

The genetics that contribute to the sudden aggression was bred in, and it could be bred out, but it may be too late with all the crappy breeding that goes on. Puppy mills and backyard breeders and junkyard dog enthusiasts and dog fighters...no way back from that I think.

HarleySpoon said:

---

The "only morons raise bad pit bulls" argument gets old. You could say the same thing about fires during burn bans......"only morons have outdoor burn during a drought." However, there are enough morons out there that we have to ban outdoor burning during droughts to protect third parties even if the majority of folks are not morons.

---

The "only morons raise bad pit bulls" argument gets old. You could say the same thing about accidental discharges......"only morons have accidental discharges." However, there are enough morons out there that we have to ban guns to protect third parties even if the majority of folks are not morons.

So you would have no problem banning guns based on the same logic right? They hypocrisy on this board when comparing guns and pitbulls is hilarious!

Naveronski said:

---

She needs to get a good lawyer.

No way she should be the one to cover medical bills.

---

Law enforcement and animal control were called immediately but was told they would get there when they could as the dog wasn't actively attacking anyone. Police and AC came out this morning to make a report, a copy of which is being handed over to a lawyer. Both are fairly confident this will qualify for a law suit as well as criminal charges.

agnerd said:

---

So you would have no problem banning guns based on the same logic right? They hypocrisy on this board when comparing guns and pitbulls is hilarious!

---

I didn't want to take it that far, but there are some parallels. I also cringe when I see people point to statistics and then say the entire breed should be killed off. I wonder what these same people think when they see crime statistics for various races of people. I would hope for a bit more tolerance on that end by way of the difference between people and animals, but the line seems to get blurred on some boards here.

The biggest thing that separates the gun/dog issue for me is that an idiot still has to pull the trigger. The gun doesn't do anything on its own. But an idiot owner doesn't need to be anywhere near the dog for it to kill someone. One dangerous item can think and act on its own, and the other is an inanimate object.

Gramercy Riffs said:

---

Edit: wow, this post got long. Sorry about that. Here's the TL/DR version: "It's the owner" is not entirely accurate, but it plays a part. This is a dangerous breed, and not everyone should be able to own one.

Quote:

---

Unless we can enforce some nsurance requirements for owning these dogs and severe penalties when they attack (including prison time for the owners) there's not even a logical debate to be had about this.

---

I'm a pitbull owner (AmStaff now, previous dog was pit/lab mix), and I don't think you're too far off with this comment. I've even thought about some kind of license or qualifications to own one, but I can't quite figure out the logistics with that. Someone smarter than me would have to work that stuff out. I think the problem with penalties is that you'd have to have penalties for every dog owner, not just pits. I just don't think those penalties would hold up unless they were given out for every fatal dog attack for every breed. Prison time is a stretch in most cases, but there are stories I read that make me think that's not a terrible idea.

I'll give you the "sweetest dog ever" thing that everyone else says about their pit, but no way would I bet on it 100% of the time. It's a one-strike kind of dog. There are no second chances. If anything were to happen - to another dog, to another animal, or heaven forbid a person, young or old - I'd never be able to live with that. That's true of every medium-to-large breed, but it's the quickness and severity that can be different with these. Someone mentioned earlier that a family member restricts access to their pit, and that's one way to do it. My dog is never outside without her leash. She's never in my fenced backyard without me being right by her side. When we're on our walks, and a neighbor (or their kid) wants to pet her, my arms are wrapped around her while still holding the leash. She does great every time, but we don't get any mulligans if she doesn't.

That's for a 1-year-old AmStaff. Still just a pup, and obviously has never done anything to anyone besides lick them or challenge them to a game of tug. But I can't take any chances. For me, it has nothing to do with money or liability or the dog, it's about everyone else. It's a major responsibility, and it'll only get more serious as she continues to grow. I'm blown away by how strong and how fast she is. It's worth saying again: I've never had a dog with this kind of muscle. Honestly, I'd never be able to get there in time if I weren't constantly on top of her. There's also a constant need for training and reinforcement. Owning this type of dog is a job. I'll never quit doing that job as long as I have her. Not everyone makes that commitment though.

When someone says "it's the owner", it's important to note what they're really saying. Make no mistake about it - it's the breed. It wasn't always that way, but idiots have taken all the good that these dogs were known for and tried to breed it out of their system. Now it's like walking around with a loaded gun that can fire on its own. Good owners carry them safely, while morons juggle them and point them at people. When I say "it's the owner", I'm talking about an owner that has overlooked the risk, even if only for a second or two. I'm not saying the owner trained it to be a killer, I'm saying they let their guard down, and pit owners simply don't have that luxury.

Not everyone should be able to own one of these dogs. That doesn't make them all bad, and that doesn't mean all pit owners are stupid. But it requires your full attention 100% of the time, and it can be a lot of extra effort to make sure everyone is safe. Unfortunately, most "smart" owners usually get safer dogs while the people who can't even manage their own lives are somehow drawn to the idea of having this particular dog. Terrible combination.

My dog is not a weapon, or a tool, or a badge of honor, nor does she earn me any cool points on the street. She's a loving, fun, smart, family pet just like all the labs I had growing up. The difference is that people can get hurt if I ever take a day off. When we blame the owners, we're blaming people who have done just that.

I'm not going to post articles about labs killing kids (they're out there). I'm not going to post articles about pit bulls saving lives (it happens). Only a fool would say these things don't have the potential to be dangerous. But there are good dogs and good owners out there. It's just a matter of taking things seriously and paying attention. Then again, I've done that with every dog I've ever owned.

---

This is an excellent post, but begs the question: Why have one as a pet? You say "She's a loving, smart, family pet just like all the labs I had growing up." If that is what you want, get a lab. If you want a guard dog, get a german shepard. If you want a loving family pet who is also a guard dog, get a Bernese Mountain Dog. Why get a dog that has been bred to do nothing other than kill? If you cant let your guard down with one, how is it a good family pet?

agnerd said:

---

HarleySpoon said:

---

The "only morons raise bad pit bulls" argument gets old. You could say the same thing about fires during burn bans......"only morons have outdoor burn during a drought." However, there are enough morons out there that we have to ban outdoor burning during droughts to protect third parties even if the majority of folks are not morons.

---

The "only morons raise bad pit bulls" argument gets old. You could say the same thing about accidental discharges......"only morons have accidental discharges." However, there are enough morons out there that we have to ban guns to protect third parties even if the majority of folks are not morons.

So you would have no problem banning guns based on the same logic right? They hypocrisy on this board when comparing guns and pitbulls is hilarious!

---

That straw man argument gets old as well. But okay you want to substitute "guns" for "pitbulls" then let's do this:

No one is suggesting we ban all dogs. There is no 30th amendment right to own a pitbull. We do ban the right to own a bomb with a fuse that cannot be controlled.

If you need it in the simplest terms, "guns don't kill people, people kill people using guns. However, pitbulls do kill people without people trying to kill people with pitbulls."

Quote:

---

This is an excellent post, but begs the question: Why have one as a pet? You say "She's a loving, smart, family pet just like all the labs I had growing up." If that is what you want, get a lab. If you want a guard dog, get a german shepard. If you want a loving family pet who is also a guard dog, get a Bernese Mountain Dog. Why get a dog that has been bred to do nothing other than kill? If you cant let your guard down with one, how is it a good family pet?

---

I can't answer for Grammercy, whose post was very relevant and good, but I can answer for myself. I am an admittedly hypocritical Pit owner, I don't like Pit's for the most part, except for the one I ended up with.

This pit has broken all my beliefs about them that I held before, but still hold towards other ones. Could she snap and go postal? Yes I guess she could, and she is a powerful 60 pound creature. What I did was that for the first probably 8 months we had her I would not leave her alone with anyone or the other dogs and regulated her environment. She was sweet enough and good enough that I opted for this PIA deal. I also, in controlled circumstances, tested her extensively around people and other dogs. She is none too fond of cats, I will say that, but dogs she is good with.

Also, one of the reasons I went through this is that I travel extensively for work and wanted a larger tough looking dog to leave with the wife and daughter. But it had to be a dog they liked and enjoyed and that was good with them, and this dog is and they love her, but at the same time looks fearsome, which she does, until you get close to her. In my case this dog has proven to be smart, trainable, great with people, and very, very loyal. Before I left her with my family I did have her 11 months with me out of the country where I tested her in all kinds of way, never showed aggression without reason, or what I would call normal for a dog of any type.

There is a characteristic that I read about in Pits and that I see in her big time, they live to please people/humans that they love. They thrive on people attention, at least mine does, she prefers attention and interaction with people to food, I have tested this a few times and always she prefers people. My other dogs, that she gets along with fine, always go for the food. That people dependence actually worries me because it is too much in my opinion, but with this dog I am willing to live with it.

There are several of us with stories of dog attacks or close calls. My GSP was attacked several years ago on a walk by some mutt while its family was sitting on the front porch.

So, let's say I'm walking through my neighborhood with my two young children and an aggressive dog comes racing around the corner ears pinned, teeth showing, snarling, red-eyed - basically Cerberus in a golf course community.

I pull a gun and put two slugs in the dog.

What happens to me?

I imagine that if the dog is just standing 10 feet away barking and snarling and I pop it...I'm going to have some explaining to do. But, if I believe that I or my family are in imminent danger, then it's justified? Seems a bit subjective...but I dunno. Same rules as a human encounter?

Has anyone ever experienced this - shooting an aggressive dog in a residential area?

drummer0415 said:

---

BenderRodriguez said:

---

LEJ said:

---

Quote:

---

She lives in a nice part of Ft. Worth

---

Whenever people begin to realize that THIS MEANS NOTHING, only then will they be prepared to defend themselves at all times. I'm not perfect. I've found myself in similar situations. It sucks and it's easy to beat yourself up over it. Living in a nice part of town does not exempt you from "sht happens".

---

Yup.

But we still get snarky "if you need to a gun to walk your dog, move to a nicer neighborhood" derp every time someone talks about carrying every day.

---

Couldn't agree more with the above. Somebody attempted to sexually assault my wife on our driveway in the middle of the day in broad daylight. We don't live in a gated community full of million dollar mansions, but don't live in the ghetto either (guy who was the current mayor of the city of Katy at the time lives four houses down from me). My wife was already a CHL holder, but was complacent because she thought she was safe in her own driveway, and therefore wasn't armed at the time. Since the incident, she won't even go check the mailbox without carrying.


I know this has sorta morphed away from original thread about stupid dogs, but it's a point worth reiterating. Stop living in your bubble and realize that trouble can happen to anyone, anywhere, at any time.

---

I wouldn't say she lives in a bubble as she is always very cautious about being in certain areas/situations but, as you said, trouble can happen anywhere, at anytime so where do we draw the line? Would you fault a family member, based on identical circumstances, for taking their kids for a walk around the block without carrying or would you chalk it up to "**** happens and you should've been carrying" and leave it at that? I am asking this rhetorically as I know what your answer will be but after the attempted sexual assault on your wife (thank god nothing terrible happened), did you ask her why she was complacent and wasn't carrying at that time? I can tell you after this incident my sister has voiced a need to get her CHL so she can protect herself but complacency on her part (or anyone in a similar situation) did not cause this. She was keeping an eye on her kids and her motherly instincts prevented a potentially tragic situation. I refuse to fault my sister for wanting to take her kids for a walk around her neighborhood where aggressive dog breeds are not allowed nor would I have told her "welp, you should've been prepared and been carrying a sidearm".

It's unfortunate that there isn't current legislation banning the ownership of pitbulls or stiffer penalties but, again, the questions needs to be asked, where do you draw line? Always carry? Sometimes carry? Carry when you check the mail? Would laws prohibiting pitbull ownership have prevented this situation from happening? Say, for example, you enter a building/establishment which prohibits carrying concealed firearms and a criminal enters the building with a weapon and harms someone. What is the argument then? Would you still tell someone to stop living in their bubble and consciously break the law because "**** happens and you always need to be prepared"? My point is that although I agree with your sentiment that any situation can be unpredictable and you should always be prepared, there are other factors that need to be considered. Chalking it up to someones perceived lack of preparation in a specific instance was a contributing factor to the result is not a stance I would personally apply anytime something bad happens.

The notion that the Am Staff was bred to kill is false. That was not what the breed's origins and intent were. Over time, that breeding has been added to the breed's gene pool unfortunately.

The AKC bans dogs that bite other dogs or people from ALL AKC sanctioned events FOR LIFE on the first confirmed bite or attack. There are AmStaffs pretty much all of the All-breed shows, and of course the breed specific events and some performance events. They CAN be controlled, and in an environment with hundreds or thousands of other unfamiliar dogs and people in close proximity.

John Cocktolstoy said:

---

I hate to hear about anyone getting bit. I am glad the kids are ok. Your sister is to be commended. I could raise a lab to do the same thing that pit did, and could raise a pit to be as gentle as a lab. It is owners that raise these dogs to be this way and it is never going to change. Some of the sweetest dogs I have been around are pits, they just did not have their ears cut and trained to kill. I hope your sister gets better quick and demands the head for testing.

---

People who defend pitbulls are dumb MFers. The End. Especially when they compare them to Lab and other docile breeds. Yes, there are a few bad labs and a few good pitbulls, Pitbulls are the most naturally aggressive yet somehow idiots like you continually defend them

agnerd said:

---

HarleySpoon said:

---

The "only morons raise bad pit bulls" argument gets old. You could say the same thing about fires during burn bans......"only morons have outdoor burn during a drought." However, there are enough morons out there that we have to ban outdoor burning during droughts to protect third parties even if the majority of folks are not morons.

---

The "only morons raise bad pit bulls" argument gets old. You could say the same thing about accidental discharges......"only morons have accidental discharges." However, there are enough morons out there that we have to ban guns to protect third parties even if the majority of folks are not morons.

So you would have no problem banning guns based on the same logic right? They hypocrisy on this board when comparing guns and pitbulls is hilarious!

---

jesus, you went full ****** here.

If the gun goes off without human interaction and kills people sometimes, yes ban the **** out of it. If you are going to make the gun comparison, you are then saying that all Pitbull OWNERS should be banned, not the dog

Embarrassed you even have an AgTag with that asinine argument

MouthBQ98 said:

---

The notion that the Am Staff was bred to kill is false. That was not what the breed's origins and intent were. Over time, that breeding has been added to the breed's gene pool unfortunately.

The AKC bans dogs that bite other dogs or people from ALL AKC sanctioned events FOR LIFE on the first confirmed bite or attack. There are AmStaffs pretty much all of the All-breed shows, and of course the breed specific events and some performance events. They CAN be controlled, and in an environment with hundreds or thousands of other unfamiliar dogs and people in close proximity.

---

I had the Pit I have with me in Nicaragua with me for right at a year. I walked her through and around an industrial park where about 15,000 people work, 98% of them on foot mind you, and took her into the cafeterias and recreational areas, and never had one slight issue. She was in our plant daily, with about 600 employees.

Well it was a Korean owned park and they encouraged having cats, no kidding very nefarious if you ask me, so it was run over with cats. In our living compound it was nasty and ridiculous. I did turn her loose on a big black nasty tom cat that was spitting and haaing at us while were on a walk. When I took off her leash she looked back up at me like "well what am I supposed to do?". That cat hissed and spat and stomped my foot and it looked like the black Tasmanian devil after that cat, cat went up a palm tree in 4clawX4claw and she got about 8 feet up it. That tom cat never jacked with us again and gave my apartment a wide berth.

Some dumb **** brought a "service" pit on the plane from SFO to DAL I was on last week. You should have heard the "what the ****s" as she drug it down the aisle during her C boarding group.

Screw pits and their owners.

Now that seems off

they should all be exterminated

ATL Aggie said:

---

This is an excellent post, but begs the question: Why have one as a pet? You say "She's a loving, smart, family pet just like all the labs I had growing up." If that is what you want, get a lab. If you want a guard dog, get a german shepard. If you want a loving family pet who is also a guard dog, get a Bernese Mountain Dog. Why get a dog that has been bred to do nothing other than kill? If you cant let your guard down with one, how is it a good family pet?

---

That's a very fair question, and one that I thought about addressing in the original post but it was already so long I didn't think anyone would read it. This one will be long too. Skip to the last two paragraphs for the short version.

My wife is a pit lover and always has been. Before we met, she lived in a city that wasn't so pit friendly and has since banned the breed (ongoing battle, not sure of the current status). She spent a great deal of time hiding her dog from landlords, neighbors, cops, etc. She got the dog when it was small enough to fit in her palm. By the time we met, the dog was six years old, and I was fortunate enough to know her until we put her down at age 13. I remember telling my then-girlfriend that my little nephews would "never get anywhere near that baby killer". A few weeks later, the youngest one was using the dog as a pillow on his sleepovers. It was technically a pit/lab mix, so I joked with her that everything good about the dog was really just the lab side. My parents still say the same thing, but they're not joking. It's impossible to convince them otherwise.

All of our labs growing up were hunting dogs. In a way, they felt like employees. Before the pit, I'd never owned a dog that spent any considerable time inside the house. I thought dogs only lived in backyard kennels. They shared a special bond with my dad both at home and especially in the marsh, but I never really had a connection with them, maybe because I'm not a hunter. Great dogs, all of them. They sure like to run though - I've put up more lost dog signs than I care to count. Thankfully they always turned up somewhere.

I don't know if all pits are like mine, but our connection was instant. Something about the way she looked at me... or anyone else for that matter. And the connection with my wife was unlike any I'd ever seen. Just a very loving dog all around. Take away whatever vicious aspects there may be with other pits, and I felt a lot of similarities to the labs as far as seeing how much this dog just wanted to please its owner. For the last seven years of its life, it was absolutely the best dog (and most well-behaved) that I've ever had or been around. Zero issues, and honestly, I wasn't worried about her around strangers or other dogs at all. My cat kicked her ass on a daily basis to the extent of drawing blood with no retaliation from the dog whatsoever. But I'll admit, there was a tiny part of me that wondered if the "everything good is the lab half" thinking was true.

My wife was glued to that dog. Before we met, they'd been through some very rough times together that I'd rather not detail here. Saying goodbye to that one was difficult for both of us, but especially her. She vowed that the next one would be a pit as well, and I'm just hard-headed enough that I liked the idea of proving my parents wrong by eliminating the lab half altogether. We thought this one was an American Pit Bull Terrier, but one of the other moms had a DNA test done on her pup, and it turns out they're AmStaffs.

But there's more to it than that. I know what kind of people buy these dogs. I know what kind of lives they have far more often than they should, and it's not their fault that we've reached this point. I hate to think of what could have happened to this little one if she'd gone to a different home. When we rescued her, it bothered me that 95% of the dogs at the shelter were pits or pit mixes. I know they don't stand a chance. People walk right past them because of the stereotype. It's a well-deserved stereotype, but some of these little guys are paying the price for things they've never done. It's sad to think that quite a few of them have a lot of potential, but they'll die in that cage without ever getting a chance. A lot of my friends and coworkers have pits or pit mixes for this very reason. They're all fantastic dogs, but admittedly, they all have fantastic owners.

We got to meet our dog's mother and siblings at a foster home. Never saw the sire. That worried me a bit - I know the importance of that from all those labs. These puppies might be the offspring of a complete psycho. And for that reason, I'm very cautious even though I've seen enough to have a pretty good idea of what we got. She's got a ton of energy, but she's a great dog (so far). She's a natural at retrieving too... you just have to fight her for it when she brings it back. I'm hoping she'll grow out of some of this like any other dog would. She drew blood a few times early on because of those razor blade puppy teeth, but there was no intent. Pure accidents. It still worried me a little, but that problem was short-lived.

Pits are fiercely loyal, they're super athletic and a lot of fun to be around, and I think they're absolutely beautiful (not always a popular opinion, I know). But like you said, you can get those same qualities in other dogs. Why a pit? For me, this was all about giving something a chance. I can't save them all - but I wanted to save this one. I wanted this one to have a good life. And I understood going in that I was committing to a lot of work that another dog wouldn't require. I'm okay with that.

I won't try to change any opinions, because I believe those opinions are justified and supported with data. I think this dog is a good fit for me and for my wife, and maybe we've saved her from something terrible. It really did feel at the time like this dog needed us, so we're all in. I'll continue to train her and work with her, to make her the best dog that she can be. But my first priority is keeping our neighbors, family, and friends safe at all times. I owe that to them, and frankly, I owe it to the dog too. My job is to put her in a position to succeed, and I'm doing my best to do just that. We don't have kids and never will, so we can devote a lot of time to this little project. I think this one's worth the effort. I can't make pits a safer breed, but I can make sure that you're safe around mine.






** Edit: Pic #2 removed - not sure why it was weird to post that, but apparently some folks couldn't handle it. **

Ol_Ag_02 said:

---

Screw pits and their owners.

---

nope. Not into bestiality.

dodger02 said:

---

So, let's say I'm walking through my neighborhood with my two young children and an aggressive dog comes racing around the corner ears pinned, teeth showing, snarling, red-eyed - basically Cerberus in a golf course community.

I pull a gun and put two slugs in the dog.

What happens to me?

I imagine that if the dog is just standing 10 feet away barking and snarling and I pop it...I'm going to have some explaining to do. But, if I believe that I or my family are in imminent danger, then it's justified? Seems a bit subjective...but I dunno. Same rules as a human encounter?

---

It's a tough situation, and I'd hope that you wouldn't shoot my dog if she ever got loose and simply ran toward you. Because of her physique, she'll look intimidating when she runs. I'm 99% positive that she won't hurt you, but I don't blame you if you assume she's going to.

I'd be crushed if you shot her. And I'd probably be angry. You'd have some explaining to do, but I'd be in no position to do anything about it. In the end, your life - or the life of your kids - is more important than the dog's. If you're just walking by, and she's simply sitting on the porch when you shoot her, that's messed up. But again, what's going to happen to you? Probably nothing.

Here's the bottom line (for me): As the owner, it's my job to make sure that you're never put in that position to begin with. I don't want anything to happen to my dog, but I also don't want to force you to make that decision either. Like I said before, I owe that much to you and the dog both.

I will add that I appreciate the discussion, including the follow up posts from OP. And I appreciate the chance to share what it's like to be on the other side of things. Some of these posts from you guys are so much more productive than the "kill them all and their owners" stuff, although some of that's going to happen everywhere.

Still the best board on TA.

Quote:

---

People who defend pitbulls are dumb MFers. The End. Especially when they compare them to Lab and other docile breeds. Yes, there are a few bad labs and a few good pitbulls, Pitbulls are the most naturally aggressive yet somehow idiots like you continually defend them

---

Dumb MF'er here I guess. A lot of PIts are fine, not all but the majority I would guess based on numbers. One of the big issue with Pits in the US right now is that during the 80's, 90's and 00's their population numbers exploded, there is a sheetload of them out there now. Not to mention all the mixes and crossbreeding And sadly due to the low class macho factor lots of them have really crappy owners and a lot of poor dogs with bad traits were propagated. Who knows what genetic stew got conjured up in all of that.

Historically Pit's were even called the baby dogs or some crap like that, they were "America's" breed and were not feared and loathed, but revered. In the media the click bait is well known about the Pit Bull hysteria, that is why these bad incidents make the pub that they do. Any "bullish" looking type dog gets classified as a Pit nowadays so stats against Pit's could also be inflated. Rotts, Cane Corso's, Akita's, and some other aggressive breeds get classified as Pit's in many stats.

Gramercy Riffs said:

---

I will add that I appreciate the discussion, including the follow up posts from OP. And I appreciate the chance to share what it's like to be on the other side of things. Some of these posts from you guys are so much more productive than the "kill them all and their owners" stuff, although some of that's going to happen everywhere.

Still the best board on TA.

---

I appreciate you taking the time to provide your perspective on the issue. I know that I am prejudiced toward pitbull owners. I believe that 90% of them own pitbulls simply because they are dangerous animals; and they are compensating for something. Clearly you do not fall into that category. You are obviously a very responsible owner who is highly educated on the breed and know how to raise one and incorporate it into your family. I wish all pitbull owners had your perspective. I am sure there are more like you, but unfortunately there are also many irresponsible owners, and they give the breed a bad name.