Is a pcp that much quieter?

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Is a pcp that much quieter?

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PCP's can be made very quiet. The sound of the pellet striking a target is louder than the muzzle blast, to someone who would be standing in the next yard over. Many PCP's come with a shroud over the barrel, and many shrouds have threaded muzzles where you can attach an extra suppressor that quiets the report even further.

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For Caladan or anyone in the know... What's the quietest 22 rifle I can get without getting a pcp rifle? Let's say the budget is under 500.

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I have an older Walther LGV .22 and it's hands down my favorite springer. Many of your high end springers require a break in period, or you can send them off to be "tuned." But the Walther came from Germany pretuned out of the box.

It rivals my PCPs in accuracy (but not in power since PCPs are generally going to be more powerful than springers). It's quiet, and backyard friendly. If you catch it on sale, it should come right in at your $500 mark. If you have to pay full price at $575 or so, it's still worth it imo. You can pass this down to your grandkids.

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Walther_LGV_Ultra_Air_Rifle/3044/5890

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I have an older Walther LGV .22 and it's hands down my favorite springer. Many of your high end springers require a break in period, or you can send them off to be "tuned." But the Walther came from Germany pretuned out of the box.

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While the LGV might not be the "quietest" springer out there, it is certainly the best overall springer in it's price range.

Some of the LGV variants have a threaded muzzle that will accept a factory moderator. The majority of springers do not have this. I don't know how much this would add to the overall cost.

Caladan -

Just got to say I really appreciate this thread. And here I thought you just sat around the house with piles of binoculars! (Kidding of course!)

I have never wanted a PCP airgun until I realized you could fill them with hand or foot pumps. I figured getting a tank is kind of a pain & I'd have to drag it around with me if I took it somewhere.

A couple of questions:

How many shots can you get out of a fully charged PCP air rifle?
What are your thoughts on using a hand pump vs. a scuba or other air tank?

Thanks again

I have a Winchester 1100 break barrel .177 rifle.
It is fun to take with me to the deer stand to shoot squirrels or crows that annoy me.
It is not very loud unless the pellets are super sonic.
It also isn't very accurate, but it was cheap.

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Caladan -

Just got to say I really appreciate this thread. And here I thought you just sat around the house with piles of binoculars! (Kidding of course!)

I have never wanted a PCP airgun until I realized you could fill them with hand or foot pumps. I figured getting a tank is kind of a pain & I'd have to drag it around with me if I took it somewhere.

A couple of questions:

How many shots can you get out of a fully charged PCP air rifle?
What are your thoughts on using a hand pump vs. a scuba or other air tank?

Thanks again

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Actually, I kinda do sit around the house with a pile of binoculars. OK - it's really in the back of the shop, where I have a few chairs just inside the overhead door. From the back of the shop, it's an additional 45 yards to the forested land behind us, and we have our own little bird/wildlife sanctuary there. I spend at least a few minutes back there pretty much every evening glassing for critters.

The number of shots you can get from a PCP varies wildly. Some PCP's will hold enough air for several hundred shots, and some of the big-bores will only get four or five shots. Many PCP's have adjustable power settings, which will allow the user to choose how much air per shot he wants to use. So as you can see, there's no one set answer to your question. It all depends on tank size, caliber, and velocity (power level) chosen.

If you are looking at perhaps getting a "starter" PCP, you might consider the Benjamin Maurader. This rifle can be used at two different pressure settings. I think they are 2000psi and 3200psi. It would not take long to fill a PCP if you are only going to 2kpsi. Another starter PCP that is a bit more expensive is the Air Force rifles such as the Talon. These have a velocity adjustment wheel on the side of the receiver that will allow the user to pick/change the amount of air being used per shot. I would imagine that you could get over 100 shots per fill at a mid-range velocity level.

Be aware that the Benjamin Mauraders don't have the best quality control, and some of them do not shoot very well. If you buy one, buy from a place that will let you return it if necessary. When the do work however, they seem to work pretty well.

C

Oops, forgot to answer your 2nd question....

I did use a floor pump when I lived in Germany, but at that time the only PCP I owned was a Feinwerkbau 10m gun, which only went up to 3kpsi. It was fairly easy to pump up. However, I now own a fair number of PCP's, most of which use a lot more air per shot. I could not get along w/a floor pump only, so I have a standard 3k psi SCUBA tank, and a 4.5k psi carbon-fiber tank.

But then again, I shoot a lot. If I were just a very occasional shooter, I would probably just manage with a floor pump.

If you are thinking about getting a tank for filling, you need to make sure you have a place that will fill it. In most cases, it will be a dive shop that might do it, but be aware that some dive shops won't do this sort of thing because of liability reasons. Also, not every dive shop will have a compressor that will reach 4.5k psi either.

If you are considering a floor pump, I would suggest staying away from the Benjamin version. It seems to not be as reliable as the European versions.

C

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I have a Winchester 1100 break barrel .177 rifle.
It is fun to take with me to the deer stand to shoot squirrels or crows that annoy me.
It is not very loud unless the pellets are super sonic.
It also isn't very accurate, but it was cheap.

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You might increase accuracy just by changing pellets. If you are in the Brazos Valley area and are interested in trying out a number of different pellets, I can set you up with a trial pack of pellets from Crosman, JSB and H&N. Post contact info here if interested.

I saw the Diana 400 mentioned on page 1. Thoughts on the Diana 34? My limited research points to this gun as one of the better options under $300. TIA!

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I saw the Diana 400 mentioned on page 1. Thoughts on the Diana 34? My limited research points to this gun as one of the better options under $300. TIA!

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The RWS (Diana) 34 has been around a great number of decades, and is still thought by many to be the best choice in a low-priced medium-power spring-piston rifle. It is certainly the one I would pick if spending under $250, and in fact I have one in .22. They are very basic in appearance, but they do work well. Also, that long barrel makes an efficient lever for compressing the spring.

I don't think I would get one in .177 as it is too much gun for the caliber, but IMO they do well in .22. Be aware that they have no barrel shroud or muzzle suppressor, so they will be louder than the moderated offerings from Gamo and the like.........

Things to know about airguns, part 3:

Single and multi-stroke pneumatics

The rifles and pistols often called "pump-up" airguns are more correctly known as single-stroke (SSP's) or multi-stroke pneumatics (MSP's). These types of airguns use a lever-operated piston to compress ambient air into a small chamber in the guns receiver. Pulling the trigger releases a hammer which knocks open a valve, and lets the compressed air into the breech. SSP's are very low in velocity, and are only suitable for target shooting, or for hunting extremely small game such as smaller pest birds or rodents. SSP's were also used in Olympic-caliber airguns too, and were the most accurate types available until the pre-charged rifles came along. Even now, a good match-grade SSP commands a price of many hundreds of dollars, and are capable of taking a shooter to the national level. Anschutz, Feinwerkbau, Walther, Hammerli, and Steyr all made Olympic-grade SSP's in both rifle and pistol versions. You can still buy new low-grade match pistol SSP's from FAS, Gamo, and IZH.


MSP's are very common at the big-box stores. Some are very famous, such as the Crosman 760 or the Daisy 880, both of which have been in existence for many decades. There are no MSP's suitable for high-level match use. They are used for plinking or hunting. MSP's can achieve a power level suitable for hunting small game such as rabbits. The famous Benjamin and Sheridan rifles are famous examples of MSP's that can reach a fairly high level of power. However, you can change the power output just by the number of pumping strokes, which is something you cannot do with a springer.


Low-powered pneumatics are not terribly noisy, but a Benjamin 397 pumped up as high as it will go will be quite loud. These types are difficult to suppress, so if you want something quiet but reasonably powerful, you should stay away from these. However, these have the great advantage of not having any recoil as compared to a springer, which means you can use any scope that suits your purposes. Since there is no large moving mass at the time the pellet starts moving, the average shooter is going to be more accurate than if shooting a springer. These types are also much lighter in weight than a springer too. Pneumatics also tend to be less pellet-fussy than springers. Pneumatics also tend to be more mechanically reliable than springers. For many, a good SSP such as a Benjamin 392 makes a better choice for a beginner who wants something for plinking or small game use.


Owners of the Benjamin/Sheridan MSP's should store the rifle with one or two pumps of air in the chamber. This low pressure will keep the valve closed, which will limit dust getting into the compression chamber. Not a critical thing by any means, but it is an easy and sensible thing to do. Maintenance requirements are little, the most important thing being proper lubrication of the pump-arm pivot pin.

C

I'm pretty familiar with 3k and 4.5k air systems for paintballs, and own scuba tanks, but getting them filled is a pain right now.

Do the PCP guns work with CO2?

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I'm pretty familiar with 3k and 4.5k air systems for paintballs, and own scuba tanks, but getting them filled is a pain right now.

Do the PCP guns work with CO2?

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For the most part, no. However, a few PCP's can use CO2, and a few CO2's can be modified to use air. The Air Force rifles can use CO2 paintball canisters with a canister adaptor. IIRC, your upper power limit is not as high as compressed air, but you do get a great number of shots. I think that Crosman makes a dual-fuel rifle too, but don't quote me on that.

Caladan-

Any insight into scopes for PCP's?

Things to know about airguns, part 4

C02 airguns (which really aren't "air"guns, but you know what I mean):

OK, so we all know about the C02 cartridges and how they work, so I'm not going to go into that. Just a few things to know before you buy a C02 gun.

C02 pressure changes dramatically with changes in the surrounding ambient air temperature. Shooting in air temps below 60 degrees can decrease internal C02 pressure enough to noticeably affect velocity. Shooting in temps below 40 degrees can decrease pressure enough to see a significant drop in pellet POI. If you shoot a lot in cold temps, you might want to stay away from the C02 guns.

Shooting in high air temps can sometimes also cause a drop in velocity. This is caused when the internal C02 pressure is raised enough to cause a "vapor lock", which is when the valve is held closed too tightly by the internal pressure, and the hammer cannot knock it open, or cannot knock it open enough for a full charge of C02 to escape down the bore. This results in a reduced charge of C02 pushing on the pellet, which results in reduced velocity. If this happens, just shoot the airgun a while and eventually drop the internal pressure enough so that the valve is able to be knocked open to it's fullest extent.

There are a lot of seals in an average C02 gun. Keeping them lubricated is important, and is easily done by putting one drop of Crosman Pellgun Oil on the tip of the C02 cartridge before inserting into the airgun. When the tip is pierced, the small amount of oil is distributed throughout the mechanism.

O-rings are made of many different types of materials, and some of them do not react well to C02. If you have to re-seal or replace 0-rings, make sure you get the ones the are appropriate for C02 use.

Some C02 guns can accept an adapter that will allow the use of a bulk-fill tank such as the ones used for paintball, and which will give you several hundred shots, depending on the model.

C

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Caladan-

Any insight into scopes for PCP's?

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Well.... since a PCP has no recoil, any scope will suffice as long as it will focus down to the ranges you will be shooting. However, many scopes will not focus (parallax) down to the ranges airguns are often used at, which is more often than not 50-55 yards and under. Just make sure that whatever scope you get, it has the ability to focus down to 10 yards. Hawke, Weaver, Leupold, Bushnell, Leapers, Schmidt&Bender, and Sightron all make scopes that will adjust down to 10 yards. Nightforce used to, but not sure if they still do. Some rimfire scopes will adjust down to short ranges, but many will only parallax down to 50 yards, which is not short enough unless you are shooting a big-bore airgun.

The good thing about these shorter ranges that aiguns are usually used at is that you have to turn a scopes adjustment "wheel" (front bell or sidewheel) a lot, and this will allow a shooter enough room on the distance scale to use the front bell or sidewheel as a ranging device. Many airgunners will put a ranging tape on the focus adjustment, and which is marked with the proper pellet impact point for any given distance from minimum focus distance, out to perhaps 50 or 60 yards. Just turn the focus wheel or bell until the target is in focus, and read off which mil-dot to use for that distance.

I live in Kentucky, but I could check those out.

I have Winchester rifle and ATN rifle scope . They work perfect together, really. My shots are very accurate due to "my best friends".

Air Gun Depot is having a big CO2 sale this week. I'm more of a springer guy.

What is the appeal of the CO2's?

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What is the appeal of the CO2's?

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In cartridge guns - the ability to shoot a lot of shots very easily, and often quickly. In bottle guns, the ability to shoot several hundred shots on a charge, with essentially no work on the part of the shooter for each shot, other than loading and cocking.

CO2 can be a good option for those who do not have a place to fill a SCUBA tank nearby. Keep in mind that in cold weather, velocity really drops off. In really warm weather, you can experience valve lock from heat-induced over-pressure.

I was practically a SEAL sniper with my Daisy pump up as a kid. There's no telling how many birds, lizards, frogs, toads, coke cans, bottles, pecans, rocks and who knows what else I killed with that thing as a kid. I killed a cat once by shooting it out of a tree, which I immediately regretted and felt really bad about. I flattened my sisters bike tire once with one of those pointed pellets (which I was pretty excited about until my dad's belt landed on my butt). My best shot though, which was more luck than skill, was a cottontail on the run. I popped him in the head as he was running away from my cousin. He did a somersault and then kicked around a minute or so and then died. I was astounded and my cousin thought I was the greatest shooter ever.

That's pretty much the extent of my air gun knowledge.

Yep, my Daisy 22SG finally died on me after at least 200+ pieces of limb chicken succumbed to her reach over the last six or seven years. I've replaced her with the Hatsan 95 and I'm certainly pleased. Using just the open sights I've been on the winning side of 4 slices of tree bacon in just the first several tries.

I hate to completely retire the Daisy but it would take about $100 to bring her back to life and that's more than she cost new. If anyone has an idea on what to do with an old pump action, let me know.