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Some of the comments thrown around about an animals life being more valuable than another human being is disgusting.

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Am I missing where this was actually said?

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This response. I don't think anyone (except someone from PETA) would say an animal's life is more valuable than a human's.

However, as a conservationalist, I seek to better understand and enjoy the outdoors and protect wild areas and organisms so that future generations can enjoy what we have.

Doesn't mean I'm a tree hugger or lib. Quite the contrary.

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Those are fair comments.

On the flipside... I don't think some guys working in the oilfields, or some homeowner weeding his landscaping around his house should be given grief over killing a snake they encounter, regardless of whether they know the species or not.

I've got a pretty fair handle on what copperheads or rattlesnakes look like... But I'm certainly no expert either. And I'm not gonna sit around analyzing markings and then run to the interwebs to figure out venomous vs. non-venomous. If it's on my property, I'll probably just kill it. If others want to go around letting every rattlesnake they run across go free... more power to 'em. Just don't give me **** if I decide to end its life.

It's a freakin' snake. Get over it.

I have a theory that I evaluate from time to time to monitoring threads on the OB. It goes like this:

Any thread over 100 posts is either a longstanding thread (fly fishing, cigars, weight loss...) or has gone completely off the tracks.

Spreadsheet update.

I've never "raised the pitchforks" with respect to someone killing a venomous or non-venomous snake around their yard, etc. I can understand their behavior.

But, one aspect that I think people have to understand - my whole career (and some others on here) has been dedicated to educating people about wildlife, ecology, etc. So, when I discuss a subject that I'm passionate about and have been educating people about for over 20 years (or when others do), I/they probably come off as a little "preachy".

I'm definitely not on the "Lib" side of conservation. 95-100% of the people I've worked with professionally are.

I'm currently a Biology teacher who teaches "Evolution" as the theory that it is and teaches true "science" as what we can observe today or what we have good historical records of.

My goal as an educator is to 1) get people interested in Ecology as a field 2) once they get interested, encourage them to have a love of it which will hopefully lead to 3) conserving that which they love.

I had an Eastern Hognose snake as a pet when I was a kid. One of the many organisms (mostly dogs and cats) that my dad would bring home. This (and other experiences) developed a love of nature for me at an early age. This is how I grew up with (just as others have grown up killing snakes, etc.).

So, it may be "just a freaking snake" to some, but it is a part of nature which I've grown up with, and which my entire career has been focused on.

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I have a theory that I evaluate from time to time to monitoring threads on the OB. It goes like this:

Any thread over 100 posts is either a longstanding thread (fly fishing, cigars, weight loss...) or has gone completely off the tracks.

Spreadsheet update.

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Which is what usually makes them the best for that slow day in the office. Strategic belligerence helps nudge them off the tracks.

To be absolutely fair this thread started off the tracks with the troll title with real content. I'm sure it can continue to be nurtured into an OB classic.

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I'm currently a Biology teacher who teaches "Evolution" as the theory that it is and teaches true "science" as what we can observe today or what we have good historical records of.

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Wait... You are going to have to back up on that one. Evolution isn't "true science" ? Please tell me you aren't teaching intelligent design or whatever other "theories" are out there.

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I'm currently a Biology teacher who teaches "Evolution" as the theory that it is and teaches true "science" as what we can observe today or what we have good historical records of.

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Wait... You are going to have to back up on that one. Evolution isn't "true science" ? Please tell me you aren't teaching intelligent design or whatever other "theories" are out there.

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No, I don't teach anything else. I just don't teach it as a "scientific fact", but as the best "hypothesis or theory" which most scientists agree with.

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I'm currently a Biology teacher who teaches "Evolution" as the theory that it is and teaches true "science" as what we can observe today or what we have good historical records of.

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Wait... You are going to have to back up on that one. Evolution isn't "true science" ? Please tell me you aren't teaching intelligent design or whatever other "theories" are out there.

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No, I don't teach anything else. I just don't teach it as a "scientific fact", but as the best "hypothesis or theory" which most scientists agree with.

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...kinda like global warming, right?


(Humble04, was that helpful "strategic belligerence"/trolling to help nudge things off the tracks?)

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I'm currently a Biology teacher who teaches "Evolution" as the theory that it is and teaches true "science" as what we can observe today or what we have good historical records of.

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Wait... You are going to have to back up on that one. Evolution isn't "true science" ? Please tell me you aren't teaching intelligent design or whatever other "theories" are out there.

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No, I don't teach anything else. I just don't teach it as a "scientific fact", but as the best "hypothesis or theory" which most scientists agree with.

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...kinda like global warming, right?


(Humble04, was that helpful "strategic belligerence"/trolling to help nudge things off the tracks?)

LOL. Sean, we don't even go into "Global Warming". It's actually not on the "Common Core" guidelines.

I do discuss changes in land use with respect to changes in area micro-climate and the changes that would occur with weather stations due to land use changes (heat sinks, etc.).

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I'm not sure what you mean...

But if people were to extend their treatment of snakes to other animals most people would be crying and gnashing their teeth.

But let's try an example, since dogs bite and attack people and there are more deaths due to dog bites than snake bites and you're also much more likely to get bitten by a dog than by a snake. So let's just kill all dogs that are not on leashes and seen in public. Shoot them or cut them in half with a shovel or hoe.

Yes I realize that there is a difference in dogs and snakes, but most people see the difference as a furry cute dog and a nasty scary snake and that's all they see.

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Here's the thing - almost everybody here (except Zoo Guy and Ursus, apparently) does.

You get mice or rats at your house, what do you do? Every single person here puts out traps and poison. You get a fire ant infestation in your yard, what do you do? Every single person here puts out poison and kills them. You see a bunch of spiders and scorpions what do you do? 99.9999% consensus (Zooguy not withstanding) tells you to go to Tractor Supply and get some Demon WP and get to killing.

The overwhelming majority of threads about snakes and the killing thereof that seem to get the half dozen posters that get off on these threads to light their torches involve snakes around the house - where they are just like any other non-desireable pest or rodent. But for some reason with snakes, instead of it being OK to kill them (again, Zooguy seems to not have an issue with others even if he doesn't do it himself), you are supposed to sit down and have mutual counseling sessions with them to find out why they like your place and what you did to offend them and what you may be able to do to possibly get them to go elsewhere or if you should just pack up and move elsewhere lest you offend their delicate misunderstood snake sensibilities.

Therese types of threads always end up jumping the shark, it's truly a phenomenon.

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The value of a human life (even *******s) > all animals.

It is an easy equation. No dog, cat, snake, bird, fish, *, has more value to this planet than another human being. I see zero issue with killing a venomous snake or letting it slither.

If its around places my kids play, I'll kill it. If it isn't venomous I'll use it as an opportunity to educate on the difference. I won't judge others for a different assessment of the situation.

Some of the comments thrown around about an animals life being more valuable than another human being is disgusting. As a society we will spend 3x more on our pets annually than NASA's budget. We care more about accessorizing our stupid pet that will gladly eat you to survive than understanding and exploring space/time/our own planet.

This doesn't make anyone conservative, or liberal, it just means that as a society we are stupid and focused on trivial ****. This is why Trump is the President we deserve.

'Merica!

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No. No. Check that - hell no. This is just a silly outlook.

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Therese types of threads always end up jumping the shark, it's truly a phenomenon.

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This is the truth.

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I'm currently a Biology teacher who teaches "Evolution" as the theory that it is and teaches true "science" as what we can observe today or what we have good historical records of.

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Wait... You are going to have to back up on that one. Evolution isn't "true science" ? Please tell me you aren't teaching intelligent design or whatever other "theories" are out there.

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No, I don't teach anything else. I just don't teach it as a "scientific fact", but as the best "hypothesis or theory" which most scientists agree with.

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I can jive with that. It is the best theory available from the available data. Just keep Church out of my science class and I'm happy. It is amazing how many people can't let faith and science coexist.

The earth is 4.5 billion years old. The universe is 14 billion years old. If a book that was written by man to explain the un-explainable limits your view on God and Faith then you aren't giving God enough credit.

To summarize: Kill all snakes with fire.

One thing to keep in mind, other than one bear, I have very little emotional attachment to animals...much to my wife's chagrin in regards to pets. I look at thing as a whole, and have very little interest in individual critters. Now when you talk about blanket removal or kill cause it might be a problem, yeah I'll say something.

But Zooguy can attest that I like exposing my son to snakes....it's almost funny on Cubscout campouts now. A snake gets seen, a couple other adults are freaking out about spotting a snake (one a Marine, one a guy that grew up on a ranch near Jacksboro), JR walks up (mind you he is 6) "that's a rat snake, why are you freaking out?" Ahh good times.

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Wow... this thread had gone full libtard.
Never thought I'd see that on the OB.

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Appreciation of wildlife and specifically snakes has nothing to do with political views, just fyi. (12f Mane)

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You want to make it liberal/conservative?

Would a conservative or a liberal make a kill/no kill decision on something being scary looking?

Would a conservative or a liberal use cute/fuzzy for a kill/no kill decision?

Would a conservative or a liberal use science and logic for a kill/no kill decision?

Would a conservative or a liberal use emotion for a kill/no kill decision?

Would a conservative or a liberal judge an animal or tool based on worst case scenario?

Would a conservative or a liberal judge an animal based on the animal not being dangerous if treated with respect and caution?

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On the flipside... I don't think some guys working in the oilfields, or some homeowner weeding his landscaping around his house should be given grief over killing a snake they encounter, regardless of whether they know the species or not.

I've got a pretty fair handle on what copperheads or rattlesnakes look like... But I'm certainly no expert either. And I'm not gonna sit around analyzing markings and then run to the interwebs to figure out venomous vs. non-venomous. If it's on my property, I'll probably just kill it. If others want to go around letting every rattlesnake they run across go free... more power to 'em. Just don't give me **** if I decide to end its life.

It's a freakin' snake. Get over it.

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This.

If it's in my immediate vicinity and I know it's a poisonous snake, I kill it. If I'm not sure it's poisonous, I kill it. If I'm sure it's not, I leave it alone. Kind of like black widow and brown recluse spiders vs. grand-daddy-longlegs.

That said, I'm not going to bother them if they're not in my immediate vicinity. Tell me there's a rattlesnake 30 yards away, and I couldn't care less (unless it's near my house).

It's all about the level of threat you perceive. Some people have more tolerance, others less. Doesn't make either one absolutely right or wrong. It's just who we are.

And we are now fully off track....but with a great set of questions.

The reason thats a good snake is simple...... it's dead.

I really have no idea how to answer those. It's awesome though. Can you give the answers?

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I really have no idea how to answer those. It's awesome though. Can you give the answers?

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No.

But my answers are correct.

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I WON'T JUDGE OTHERS FOR A DIFFERENT ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION.

Some of the comments thrown around about an animals life being more valuable than another human being is DISGUSTING. As a society we will spend 3x more on our pets annually than NASA's budget. We care more about accessorizing our stupid pet that will gladly eat you to survive than understanding and exploring space/time/our own planet.

This doesn't make anyone conservative, or liberal, IT JUST MEANS THAT AS A SOCIETY WE ARE STUPID AND FOCUSED ON TRIVIAL ****. This is why Trump is the President we deserve.

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Yes, I can see how you are totally non judgmental.