This thread cracks me up...... a man whom most of you respect ( I know I do), that researches food allergies for a living , and has an obviously correctly dosed add kid enlightens you, and the discussion still goes like it goes....

I have an adult onset allergy to shrimp and crabs. I can still eat crawfish, freshwater prawns, and oysters, but any fresh caught ceabs/shrimp throw me into a near lethal reaction. They used to be my favorite food to....

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I am allergic to peanuts, but always brought my own food so everyone else could eat peanut butter.

It is not that ****ing hard.

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I keep hoping that someone will develop an allergen free GMO peanut.

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I took my son to whatever scouts are called in the 1st grade and after one meeting he said, "dad, it's just a bunch of clapping and singing...and we have to sell that popcorn you don't like."

That's when me and a few other dad's created our own outdoor club.

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Around here, there are no moure scout troops and there is a local version instead called Boys Club.

From what I've seen of Boys Club and what I remember of Boy Scouts, I'd much rather have the Boy Scouts.

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2. What we have seen in the last 20 or so years is a sudden increase in food allergies in products that use to rarely affect people. For instance, corn. I never had a person in my practice in 27 years who was allergic to corn until a couple years ago. Now I have 3. All kids.

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My father had some allergies. They were bad enough during World War II that the military would not take him.

I grew up on goat's milk because he was allergic to goats milk. He was also allergic to corn.

With your interest and liking of Louisiana things (food), that has got to suck. Sorry to hear that.

As long as I can cook the crawfish, I generally am ok. I think it's iodine related, and if they aren't to heavy on bay seasoning I'm ok.

But yes the crabs and shrimp kill me sometimes. They literally went from my favorite food to a hospital visit. It's so bad now, I can't use shrimp for bait without gloves. The crabs aren't as bad, I can handle them just not eat them.

It's weird, I'll eat oysters raw by the dozen and they never phase me. And freshwater shrimp they mostly use in sushi don't bother me.

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Quote:2. What we have seen in the last 20 or so years is a sudden increase in food allergies in products that use to RARELY affect people. For instance, corn. I never had a person in my practice in 27 years who was allergic to corn until a couple years ago. Now I have 3. All kids.

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My father had some allergies. They were bad enough during World War II that the military would not take him.

I grew up on goat's milk because he was allergic to goats milk. He was also allergic to corn.

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Did you have a point? Any food containing protein can cause an allergic reaction. Corn use to be rare. Now it is much more common.

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I agree that it is the primary responsibility of the PARENTS of an allergic child to ensure that child is protected from allergen exposures. And as the child ages, it becomes the child's personal responsibility as well.

However, it is simply unrealistic to expect 3-6 year olds to properly survey their surroundings and prevent exposures.

Add to this that most people (as evidenced by this thread) don't know it's a problem, or they don't think it's their problem, or they don't understand the severity of the reaction.

As the parent of a young child, I think it's bullchit that my kid can't take a peanut butter sandwich in his school lunch. I really do. I'm on your side. But I UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM, AND WHAT IS AT STAKE, and dammit, in spite of everything else, the life of somebody else's kid is more important than the fact that my kid likes peanut butter better than baloney. Therefore, as long as my kid wants to participate in a certain activity, or go to public school, I and he will have to abide by the rules.

If I want my kid to be able to eat peanut butter sandwiches everyday for lunch, I'm free to homeschool. It's not that important to me, so he can have baloney.

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HAHA....you do TEXAGS right? You know we have people here that leave loaded weapons in their house and expect their 'well trianed 5 year olds' to not touch, respect, and understand the consequences of the danger right?

And you think this thread is going to understand peanut allergies? I commend your optimism.

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I do, however have my doubts about some of the softer 'allergies' like gluten, etc.

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I felt this way, too. Until my daughter, now a twenty year-old sophomore at A&M (whoop!), was diagnosed with a gluten allergy last year. She's moved to a gluten free diet and the debilitating stomach cramps she experienced starting in her mid to late teens are all but gone.

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I am of the firm belief that most adhd cases are just a matter of the schools and parents not wanting boys to act like boys. Maybe it's just me.

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This combined with the extra funding provided once a kid tests positive. (nobody doesn't test positive). They wanted to test my son in elementary, wife was principal secretary, and they worked relentlessly on her even though I refused. With additional funding to school, special requirements, and special designations, the child is labelled for life.

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Quote:2. What we have seen in the last 20 or so years is a sudden increase in food allergies in products that use to RARELY affect people. For instance, corn. I never had a person in my practice in 27 years who was allergic to corn until a couple years ago. Now I have 3. All kids.

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My father had some allergies. They were bad enough during World War II that the military would not take him.

I grew up on goat's milk because he was allergic to goats milk. He was also allergic to corn.

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Did you have a point? Any food containing protein can cause an allergic reaction. Corn use to be rare. Now it is much more common.

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We both posted something anecdotal.

My only point regarding corn was that allergies to corn have been around for a long time and it wasn't limited to kids.

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Like the glue? And it's that specific?

Man.

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Yep. With me, it's just a rash, though. Easily managed.

I volunteer with my son's troop. I see all of the paperwork required for camps.

We have quite a few kids on ADHD meds. A couple of adults as well. We don't have much in the way of food allergies, but we do have a couple that have special diets, including a vegetarian. He has to bring his own food if he isn't grub master, and he has to bring his own food to summer camp if he wants to eat vegetarian meals.

A couple of the kids on ADHD meds seem to really need it. A couple of others I'm not sure. One of them reminds me very much of my cousin that would seemingly climb the walls if he had certain food colorings or a lot of sugar at that age. He was a terror, but man if we didn't have a lot of fun! He always cooked up the craziest schemes. A bowl of Fruit Loops would pretty much send him to the moon.

That seems to be a issue at our meetings. A few parents pick up dinner on the way to the meeting and the kid eats in the car/truck on the way to the meeting. They either finish in the parking lot or on their way into the building, and then polish off their soft drink.

A 90lb kid doesn't need a 32oz soft drink at 7pm on a weeknight. They just don't. I hear complaints about how their kids are "just too geared up to go to sleep after a scout meeting", and I'm wondering if maybe not letting little Billy slam a quart of sugar and caffeine at 7pm could help.

I just don't understand how I made it through 12+ years of school taking a PBJ to school damn near every day and not a single kid around me ever had an allergic reaction, ever. Nor did I ever hear of one that happened somewhere else.

Scouting has always had its fair share of "dweebs", "nerds", and losers. The jocks in my high school were not doing boy scouts.

Mormon troops are a bit different because all Mormon kids are basically forced to do Boy Scouts, regardless of interest. It's not a self-selected group, to the extent that Mormonism as a religion is not self-selected at that age group. For that reason we viewed ourselves as less dweebish than the troops around us. Whether fair or not.

I have no problem with Boy Scouts being a refuge for kids and families who find that other activities such as sports don't fit their kids interests or abilities. It's been a savior for many families.

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Mormon troops are a bit different because all Mormon kids are basically forced to do Boy Scouts, regardless of interest. It's not a self-selected group, to the extent that Mormonism as a religion is not self-selected at that age group. For that reason we viewed ourselves as less dweebish than the troops around us. Whether fair or not.

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As a guy who active in scouting on staff as a teenager and a college student, you would be wrong.

We have had a good mix. Athletes from several sports, kids with multiple siblings and lots of friends, kids that are an only child and maybe a single parent or raised by grandparents or one parent is gone due to work much of the time.

We have "nerds", and we have some that you wouldn't consider to be nerds but are super bright. It's interesting to see them grow and change from when they crossover from Webelos and watch them morph into young men.

Recruiting is ever the challenge, as is fundraising. I'm not thrilled with what the District and Council have in place for fundraisers.

That was my perception as a kid. My perception as an adult is that there are a lot of dorky Mormon kids. No one has escaped the millenial disease.

Let me ask this. Are more kids hurt or sickened each year as a result of playing sports or having an allergic reaction? Kids have DIED on the sports field yet sports have not been banned "for the children". Changed, yes, but not banned.

I'm a firm believer that a parent of a child with "special" needs should be the one that makes the sacrifice needed to "protect" their child. It's not my job to take care of someone else's little Jack and Jill. I don't mind being considerate of their "medical needs" but don't tell me I HAVE to do it. Anyone that would purposefully eat nuts around a kid that is allergic is an *******. I'll be nice and I'll be considerate but expecting me to completely accommodate someone else's kids is asinine.

Good Lord! Thank goodness these kids didn't have to fight the Russians or Nazis. Those MREs with gluten and peanut butter would have won the war for the Axis Powers.

Better keep away from all public school events and locations where food could be present. And probably some private schools as well. This is how it is now and it likely will not change.

Look at the amount of packaging on foods that says "packaged in a facility that processes tree nuts". It's probably as much about safety as it is about liability, but it's not going away.

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For that reason we viewed ourselves as less dweebish than the troops around us.

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uh...have you ever met large groups of Mormon youths?

Here is my reply.

Boy Scouts are full of great people. What I noticed that the older adult scouts really embrace scouting for what it was. There are two types of parents who are destructive to the long term preservation of Boy Scouts as we know. 1.) the parent who can be involved but doesn't .....but thinks he knows more then all. 2.) the parent who gets involved forms a kingdom and delivers a scouting program that best fits his little boy and the parents of others.

As for the following symptoms or so called concerns listed below : Simply the scout will be unable to be supported in the manner that is keeps That scout safe unless the parent goes on the campout. This tough love approach seemed to cure most ills when I was scout master. it is all mostly BS. You figure out soon which kids do have issues(not near as much as one would think) and the others that don't. The ones that don't usually don't have any real discipline at home. I knew I would be in trouble when a particular kid communicated with adults as if he was on equal ground.........100% of the time things would not well with that kid.

Again tell parents they must go to properly manage their little Johnny and stick to your guns you will find out who needs special assistance and attention and which kids who have whacked parents.

**** need gluten-free, no wheat
**** no peanuts, tree nuts, eggs, shellfish
**** no nuts
**** no nuts, eggs
**** no peanuts, tree nuts
**** no pecans, watermelon
**** no corn/sugar, includes no corn oil and corn syrup


Other information:
**** allergic to fire ant bites, will carry epi-pen
**** will carry epi-pen
**** will carry rescue inhaler and epi-pen
**** will carry epi-pen
**** has Ehlers-Danlose syndrome Classic type 1 skin bruises and tears more easily
**** has autism -high functioning (no meds) and has focus issues, plus gets upset with repeated
failed attempts at things, fine use of motor skills is more difficult for him
**** has asthma, will carry rescue inhaler
**** will carry rescue inhaler and epi-pen
**** has ADD with inattention and distraction, mom will provide more info
Needs adult to give him his medication
**** allergic to latex tape
**** has anxiety disorder (on meds), and has executive functioning deficits need extra instructions and has trouble completing tasks, also need supervision for food choices

So say I had been this allergic to shrimp or penicillin(which will kill me, in a very short amount of time. I react to TOUCHING it or Keflex), I shouldn't have been allowed to do things unless my widowed mother, who was also nursing my elderly grandmother, couldn't come along?


Just because you think people need to "man up", does not mean kids with problems are bad kids.

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So say I had been this allergic to shrimp or penicillin(which will kill me, in a very short amount of time. I react to TOUCHING it or Keflex), I shouldn't have been allowed to do things unless my widowed mother, who was also nursing my elderly grandmother, couldn't come along?


Just because you think people need to "man up", does not mean kids with problems are bad kids.

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The point is that a lot of it is BS contrived by parents. My son who was in Boy Scouts has a handicap. Artificial foot, hand issues and scholiosis. I went on every camping trip he went on. Most of the time he needed only 8sec of intervention anytime he needed help.

It is hard enough to get proper adult coverage as it is. Then to pile on a bunch of kids who have make believe issues makes it all tougher on everyone else. It robs the other kids of their camping experience.

Most of the kids who become administrative burdens are ones that seem to have multiple symptoms that were listed. Not a surprise.

I can tell you from my 7 summers at Philmont, if you want to see a special situation, deal with kid that is normally no strong anti-psychotic medication and the parents decide to take them of their meds for camp. They view scout camp as some sort of wilderness therapy. About day 3-5 they are "off", somewhere around day 6-8 the wheels fall off. Knock out people, run away, attempted suicide, decide to pour Gatorade packets around their "friend's" tent...etc. And more often than not, the meds fail to show up on the medical form.

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The point is that a lot of it is BS contrived by parents.

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That may well be true, but the FACT is, life threatening food allergies are becoming more common. If you want to see a scary sight, try a kid with a full blown anaphylatic reaction that can't breath.

Lots of families are single parent or both parents are busy working or taking care of the rest of the family. Insisting a parent come along to monitor the child might be a great idea, but is going to be impractical for lots of people. Does that mean the child shouldn't be able to go? No.

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But where does it stop at?

Do we need to look at eliminating all meats because somebody may have an allergy to meat? The poster above talks about being allergic to milk. Should we eliminate milk from availability at schools now? What about those with true celiac disease? Are all wheat based products now to be removed from schools? What about kids that are diabetic, should we ban all sugar and candy from the environment to accommodate their physical issues? How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? Because at some point the only thing we'll be able to allow is distilled filtered water, and I'm sure even then somebody will have some kind of issue with it.

At what point do we sit back and make a determination that these allergies, serious as they are, affect a very very small portion of the whole and it's simply not right to put their issues above everybody else's? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we ignore the allergies or what not at all - but the idea that the masses need to conform to the special needs of one or two is simply wrong.

What happens when this bleeds over from actual medical issues to psycological issues? What happens when all of a sudden "rights" get talked about and folded into the mix?

I'm just playing Devil's advocate here for the sake of discussion.

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It should really be on the backs of the parents and the kids themselves to monitor for allergens.

You mentioned diabetics. There are kids in elementary school today who are insulin dependent. These kids are on pumps or injections and at age 10 are able to manage their disease. If kids are smart enough to deal with the complexities of counting carbs, dosing insulin, and managing diabetes, other kids are damn well smart enough to identify foods they can't eat. (Also sugar and candy doesn't cause diabetes.)

The responsible adults surrounding the kids should know about the issues, but the non-allergic kids shouldn't be affected because an extremely small minority has allergens.

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The point is that a lot of it is BS contrived by parents.

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That may well be true, but the FACT is, life threatening food allergies are becoming more common. If you want to see a scary sight, try a kid with a full blown anaphylatic reaction that can't breath.

Lots of families are single parent or both parents are busy working or taking care of the rest of the family. Insisting a parent come along to monitor the child might be a great idea, but is going to be impractical for lots of people. Does that mean the child shouldn't be able to go? No.

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I told you of my sons challenges and that I went on EVERY camp out. If I couldn't get time off he simply didn't go.

It is a judgement call.......

Understand that troops try to go on a campout once every month or so. Proper planning the kid can make one campout sooner our later. Everytime I went to summer camp it would be me and two other adults. With 1 adult being worthless, Whiney and butchy. So you add a number of kids that require more attention. No thanks....

I like the Lewis CK approach.


of course it would be horrible to suggest that we all just decide to look the other way for like one month ... but maybe all survivors will be allergy free for the human race forever.

The bottom line is that severe, life threatening food allergies among kids (and people of all ages) do exist. Just as does the behavioral conditions of ADD/ADHD.

It is also true that these things are over-diagnosed, mostly with regards to ADD/ADHD and "gluten allergies."

However, the two are not mutually exclusive propositions.

Seems to me there are several groups being lumped into one big pile:

1) Food Allergies-There are the legit, touch stuff and you're gonna die peanut/shellfish allergy crowd. This is not overdiagnosed and the issues are increasing and the causes are not going to be solved at Boy Scout Camp.

Look those kids deserve the opportunity to stretch their boundaries and grow as young men. I never got to do Boy Scouts due to a move to a very small town without an active troop as I exited Weblos...I regret that missed opportunity. It might be the single biggest regret of my childhood in all honesty.

How many Philmont threads have we read and (for me) thoroughly enjoyed...I hope my young son shows an interest. Part of that is dealing with hardship but a big part of that is learning to work with others from various backgrounds.

My son isn't allergic to peanuts or anything else as far as we can tell but I have ZERO issues making accomodations for them. It's a great leasson for my son that it's not about him but about the group and helping to make others feel included. On top of the fact that life isn't a John Wayne movie...I'm all for personal responsibility but I don't want to see a kid loaded into a little coffin so my son can have a PBJ.

2) Gluten/hippie crap As for Gluten...I think that too much of anything is probably bad including Gluten but damn the whole gluten thing is so over blown.

3) ADD Meds- I was diagnosed by a child psychologist at an early age with a pretty severe case of ADD. My mom (a 40 veteran of public school special education) elected not to medicate me and chose a different path for treatment. Personally I'm grateful for that because in later years I tried some of the meds and they flat out messed with me...that's not to say others wouldn't benefit.
My wife was a special ed teacher, principal and now monitors special ed programs for the State of Texas. She has seen som ****..heartbreaking **** at scale...folks these meds don't just help kids I think they probably save a ton of lives.

There are a ton of kids that the meds absolutely help and there are just as many that are medicated for no other reason than as a justification for bad behavior imo.

It's a complex problem with flawed diagnostic techniques and treatment. There is a time and place for those meds as they turn psychotic kids into "normal" children as Ursus mentioned. The issue with this last bucket is the helicopter mom spoils it for those who really need it.

All i am saying is dont load up 3 adult leaders with a bunch of ADHD kids, along with immediate to life peanut allergic kids plus one or two other knuckle heads with 15 other normal Tasmanian devil boys and expect all needs to be met.

When you are summer camp it is usually located on a vast area where scouts are coming and going till evening. Those adults have equal responsibility for all kids and it is hard to cover all basis.

When the adults get back and if something didn't go right for their little johnnie then you get all hells fury.

"Heck, a cadet died in the late 90's at a Duncan Dine in because he didn't realize that the cake he bit into had nuts in it. One allergic reaction later, and the following week we're all standing in line for echo taps on the quad."

David Antonie '98, RIP
He was one of my pissheads, he died during my fish year. At the Corps Dine In he ate a piece of carrot cake which had finely ground nuts in it. He died with his ol'lady trying to resuscitate him in his room. He didn't even make it long enough for the paramedics to get there.
Until then I had never heard of a nut allergy. Seeing him rolled out on a stretcher made and later laying in a casket made it very real.

He was a great guy even as a pisshead. When everyone else was doing their best full metal jacket impersonation he would calmly spend time with fish that weren't quite getting it and helped many of them hone their fish skills. He kept several from quitting. I didn't know him that well other than above due to corps games and the established hierarchy. After fish year we heard stories about him and realized what a great guy he was. There are people that think about him and miss him every day.
I am thankful none of my kids have food allergies and I am always patient and mindful of those who do as the affects can be devastating.

Poor guy died in Winter A's, I hope he's not on list for eternity.