I'm in the planning stages of putting together a small cow/calf operation on my place. Long term, I'd like to build it into something larger but am going to start out with 10-12 head and build it from there.

The cowman that runs his cattle on our deer lease uses Charolais bulls on Corriente cows. I've been able to watch his herd the past few years and I've got to say I've been pretty impressed first of all with the hardiness of these small-bodied Corriente cows. Other than the roping arena, I've never really been around this breed much.

They've had almost no calving problems, even with the Charolais bull X and these cows seem to be hyper-attentive mamas, eat grasses and forbes other cattle won't eat, don't get heat stressed etc. They produce some of the best looking calves I've ever seen.

For those of you more experienced commercial cow/calf operators than I, what crosses have you had the best luck with as far as health, calving ease and general herd maintenance?

Just looking for opinions, thanks in advance. Oh, and I'm in the Central Texas area.

Cows should have at least 1/4 Brahma. We had good luck with Charolais and Limousine, but did have more calving problems with the wider ends on the Limmies.

Dad has been running PB Charolais Bulls on Beefmaster and Beefmaster cross (E6) for a decade or more. I can say that he produces some serious scale mashing calves. However, he doesn't raise his own replacement heifers but buys bred heifers (Beefmaster or E6 mostly bred back to Angus bulls).

I am in the process of doing something similar as my kids Beefmaster show heifers age out of showing. Once the kids are done showing, I will be doing the same thing as Dad does in regards to breeding Charolais to these cattle. I have seen some Corriente cross calves and most did not do as well at the sale barn as beefier breeds.

Keep some Brahman influence in your herd and you get a lot of the same benefits. Depending on where you are in Central Texas, there are quite a few really good Beefmaster ranches that could educate you and get you started. Don't feel like you have to go all purebred though. I see lots and lots of good E6 cattle out there that thrive in this part of the world.

The family has been in the cattle business for quite some time on the gulf coast.

My grandpa use to run hereford and black baldie cows on full brahma bulls in the 70's & 80's. Then things kinda transitioned into a hodge podge mix of braford (F1 type ) commercial.

Then we ran santa gertrudis on meyer simmental bulls for a while. They made amazing calves and my brother took grand champion at the county fair 4 years in a row. However at that time cattle prices were not strong enough to support that breeding program.

In 2005 we transitioned into brangus (purchased from registered stock) and ran charolais bulls. Theses have been more economical crosses to raise and get return through the sale barn.

However last year we decided to transition again. Replacements were too expensive to purchase so decided to raise our own for the first time and sold the charolais bulls and spent the most money we have ever spent on a bull, got an Angus Plus. Our first calves started hitting the ground in July. Based on the first 25 calves are going back to the bull breeder this year to purchase another angus plus and have a plan to transition the whole herd to this breed over the next 6-8 years.

The cattle market is some of the best its been for sellers right now. You have to come up with a program that is going to be economical for you to purchase, maintain and produce a profitable return. I see a lot of guys spending some really big dollars on cattle right now that i wouldnt spend that amount of money on. Just remember, the bull is half your herd. He should match or exceed the quality of your cows.

Let me first recommend you attend Texas A&M's beef cattle short course, you just missed this years as it's usually in early August but there is a ton of good info in the classes you can attend and cattle genetics are a few of them. Highly recommend it.

Not a commercial operation but we have ran cows for a long time in central Texas. As for our experience, we ran a pure Charolias bull on predominantly Herefords for awhile and it kicked out some good calves. We recently switched to an angus bull that will be a little smaller and is polled. Have heard good results from some of the other ranches in the area that run a similar setup. Anything that is a Eurpoean breed is going to be a safe bet.

I run a Brangus Bull on a herd of Brangus and Angus and Black Baldy cows, so my calves are any variation of Brangus to Angus Plus. I like the idea of Angus Plus but I wont be spending money on a breeding program.

First, this subject can go on forever, and you have to know exactly what your goal is to be able to get anywhere. For me, my goal is to get the highest price at the local auction barn with the lowest cost and least time and effort. For you, it might be making money selling breeding bulls and heifers, which requires advertising and a lot more time and effort.

Second, your comment about calving ease.... all breeds have at least some strains that have no trouble calving. With todays information, you look at the birth weight and pick whatever you want in your herd bull. As an example of breed vs calving ease, when Simmental first took over the business about 1970, cattlemen began having significant calving problems with them. Naturally there were some that didn't and I bet the ones that are left today are just fine. My dad switched to a Longhorn Bull for his first time heifers because of the problems he had with a Simmental Bull.

Third, your comment about the Corriente eating stuff that other cattle would not...... maybe so, that would be cool, but in my experience, cattle learn to live on what they have, and sometimes it takes a while. As an example, my cousin bought some replacement cows and fed them in his corral a couple of days, then he opened the gates to the pasture. A couple of days later, they were still there in the corral waiting to be fed. They had no idea how to survive on his hill country ranch, but they learned pretty quickly. At the other end of the spectrum, his cattle that have been there for a long time know where to go and what to eat to survive, and the longer they are there the more they learn. During drought I have watched my own cows bulldoze through brush grazing on anything in places where I had never seen them go.

Last, a little story about Simmental... While I was working in the oilfield as a supply hand, occasionally I would have lunch in Big Wells, Texas in one of the two restaurants that were there in 1990-1994. A fellow named John Strait, George's dad would also eat there and sometimes it was just him and me there. We were both there one day and these two guys walked in, looked at us, and said "You guys know anyone who would be interested in Simmental Bulls?" John said "No, too many calving problems." At which they replied, "no sir, these are a French Simmental with absolutely no calving problems". When they introduced themselves to John, they said, "Hey, you wouldn't be related to George would you?" And John said, "He's my son". And they said "What?" And John pointed to the Wrangler ad poster on the restaurant wall behind him and said, "I said, He's mine".

I'm going to respond from a different angle. There isn't one perfect breed here but the key is to match the kind of cow to your conditions. So to start:

How many acres?
What is the forage base?
What is your plan for inputs (fertilizer, weed control, etc).
Is it one pasture or set up for rotation, etc.

My point is match your cattle to your conditions. If you aren't going to check them that often, have limited nutritional quality in your forages, etc you might go with a breed that has the least nutritional requirements. The big cows require more food than little ones in general. So on a small place you can run more 1000# cows than 1500# cows for example.

my last advice or suggestion. The market is kinda crazy right now. Buy something cheap or relatively cheap, learn how to manage your grass for that heard, then start to improve the herd over time.

The best breed is the one that makes you net money.

In response to your comment about cattle learning to eat..

That is totally true. I remember back in the late 80's when Simmental bulls were the rage, my grandpa bought one from a ranch down near Pearsall. When we got him home to Edna, we noticed that he didn't seem to be grazing as much as the other cattle we had raised and he started getting a little poor. After a couple of months, he had lost a few hundred pounds and we couldn't figure out why, since we had decent grass and full access to hay and minerals.

After talking to a vet and a couple other cattle raisers in the area, we came to the conclusion that this bull had been raised down there his whole life and was "used to" eating lower volumes of grass that had higher nutritional value so he just wasn't eating enough. We got him into small trap and fed him up into better condition. It took him about three months to realize that he had to graze a lot more to get the same daily intake but he ended up being a pretty damn good bull for about 5 years.

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The best breed is the one that makes you net money.

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Yep. I recently was part of a discussion over a few cold ones about this. A friend's daughter has started showing Mini-Herefords and another guy was giving him hell about it.

My friend responded that he could run 30-50 % more head of Mini's on the same range and have the same inputs and make 25% or higher profit than the other guy running his crossbred herd. After some interesting cussing and discussing, I could see his point and think he is correct. And with the rising popularity of Mini's on the show circuit, it could even be more profitable.

Kinda hard to imagine isn't it!

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Kinda hard to imagine isn't it!

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I have thought about this a lot. I was trying to buy a bull a year ago, and I was at this guys ranch for a herbicide seminar and I asked him if he had any bulls for sale. He said "Let me show you some of them".

Some of his bulls were walking distance from the seminar, so when the class took a break, he and I walked over to them. They were these dumpy, muscular, lowline Angus bulls. I think my cows are about a foot taller than his bulls. But he began telling me about all of the places, even Internationally that had interest in his funny looking cattle. I knew right then that he probably made more money with his herd than I did with my "normal" looking Brangus!

Also, the guy they had on TV.... I think it was Texas Country Reporter..... he auctioneered Longhorns to rich people. These rich people buy based purely on looks; mostly horns and color. A good color Longhorn bull with good size horns went for $40,000.00 and some went higher.

That's when I realized if I would switch to Longhorns and get lucky and have just ONE of those $40,000.00 bulls, it would beat my twenty something mama cow operation very easily.

I've even pondered getting a few Belted Galloway's just to market the offspring to the new wave of self sustaining folks. I can't tell you how many times I have seen the women in this movement squeal and ooh/awe over these "cute Oreo" cows. Hell, if they will spend $500-1000 on a moveable chicken coop, why not 3-5k on an Oreo cow?

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I'm going to respond from a different angle. There isn't one perfect breed here but the key is to match the kind of cow to your conditions. So to start:

How many acres?
What is the forage base?
What is your plan for inputs (fertilizer, weed control, etc).
Is it one pasture or set up for rotation, etc.

My point is match your cattle to your conditions. If you aren't going to check them that often, have limited nutritional quality in your forages, etc you might go with a breed that has the least nutritional requirements. The big cows require more food than little ones in general. So on a small place you can run more 1000# cows than 1500# cows for example.

my last advice or suggestion. The market is kinda crazy right now. Buy something cheap or relatively cheap, learn how to manage your grass for that heard, then start to improve the herd over time.

The best breed is the one that makes you net money.

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Good advice here.


As BQ90 said, inputs are directly related to animal size so a 1500 lb cow will require not only more acreage for grazing but more hay and supplements thru the winter feeding season than a much smaller cow. On the flip side, the 700-800 lb cows are not going to wean as large of a calf even if they are bred to the same bull.

Moderation is usually a good idea where cow size is concerned. Mature cow weights of 1000-1200# combined with a quality bull is usually an optimal way to go. As another poster said, the bull is half of your calf.

As for the bull, purchase from a reputable breeder and make sure they can provide EPD data on their bulls. This is crucial information that can be used to avoid calving problems as well as maximizing weaning and yearling weights on your calves.

Don't get too hung up on breed of cows for a commercial cow/calf operation. Priority one is getting good quality cows that provide adequate milk to raise a calf. Also, finding gentle cattle that are easily handled when they are worked. Gentleness also affects meat quality as well as the disposition of the calves. Nothing worse than having a few idiots mess up the day when you are trying to vaccinate, worm, etc. Crazy cows produce crazy calves - they learn it from udder so to speak.

Provide adequate salt and minerals free choice at all times. A soil test can be a very valuable piece of info because whatever nutrients that are lacking in the soil will also be unavailable to the livestock when they graze. Test your hay as well so that you can supplement as needed. Tests are cheap and let you provide only those nutrients that are needed. A few dollars on tests can save you money in the long run.

As was mentioned by another, The TAMU Beef cattle Short Course can provide a lot of good info. Also, the A&M Extension Service can provide you with a lot of data and most is available online. However, nothing will replace experience.

Good luck and welcome to the cow business. It can be a rough and bumpy ride but it beats the hell out of therapy. Or maybe we all need therapy, not sure which.

Match the mature size and breed of your cow herd to the environment. Find somebody in your general area that has good cattle and buy their heifer calves and raise your own cows, that way they don't have to adapt to a completely different environment and forage base than what they have been on.

Just because a big old 1/2 blood Brahman, tiger stripe cow that weighs 1,500 pounds looks and does well in Matagorda County, doesn't mean she's going to be able to function as well in Pecos County.

Posting to watchlist. My dad is getting ready to launch a new replacement heifer program after being out of the cattle business for a few years, so interested to read where this thread goes.

Interesting combo with the Charolais/Corrientes.

How would that compare to using longhorn cows?

I'd love to see an economic comparison of Longhorns vs other purebreeds. I know the calves would be far inferior in terms of weight and muscling, but due to the smaller cows you could run more of them and the input costs would be lower (I think). I've wondered what the payoff differential would be...

We have 610 acres in the Hill Country. We raise commercial and show cattle. We run Maine Anjou, Black Angus, Charolais, Simmental, and Gerts. We do a lot of cross breeding but also AI & embryos.

My herd bull is currently a Bull I bought from Brandon Horn. It's a Charolais and have had great success with it both at the sale barn and also show cattle.

Great breeds to mix

Blonde D'Acutaine
Limousine
Charolais
Brangus
Angus
Brahman

Maine Anjou IMO should be on your list. They are feed efficient, moderate sized cattle that provide high cutability and marbling qualities. Cows are very maternal and have a high calving ease. Calves are moderately sized, however they reach high weaning weights due to their mother's heavy milking abilities. They are very docile animals, which prove profitable in the feedlot, pasture or in the show ring.

Same could be said as well for Simmental.

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It's a Charolais and have had great success with it both at the sale barn and also show cattle.

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Hey BurnetAggie, have you ever noticed a prejudice of buyers against non-black feeder calves?

Beefmaster cows + Angus bulls = black calves with a little bit of ear that feed lot buyers will trip over to buy from you.

we observe this often at the sale barn.
Our main sale barn is El Campo on Tuesdays. A black calf will always sale higher than a white calf of similar weight we found (at least among our calves). I dont have the figures in front of me but I would estimate the blacks get 10 cents higher on average. When we had santa getrudis, the blacks would get 25 cents higher than the red calves even when the red looked much better. So we started taking our red calves to Columbus on Thursdays because the buyers there werent as picky about color and could get higher prices there (my dad and i think it has to do with differences in cattle demongraphics in areas). My dad keeps a folder with sale receipts and notes on calves and who is buying them so we have discuss this often. If you are going to be serious about making money in the cattle industry you have to produce what your buyer wants.

Every turn our angus/angus cross cattle will avg 3-5$ more than the chars/char crosses with everything else being equal or negligible.

Gents,

I am wanting to get into Red Brangus. Just bought 15 acres with another 32 coming online soon. (It's more of a hobby thing than commercial) But why would a black brangus of the same weight be worth more than a red?

The meat is all the same yes? I don't get it.

Physical appearance requirements for certified angus beef, some ppl think they grade better are two I can think of. Probably some other ones I'm missing.

*edit to add
Other than feeding performer versus other breeds

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Gents,

I am wanting to get into Red Brangus. Just bought 15 acres with another 32 coming online soon. (It's more of a hobby thing than commercial) But why would a black brangus of the same weight be worth more than a red?

The meat is all the same yes? I don't get it.

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English breed cattle ( Angus, Red Angus, Hereford etc.) marble ( intramuscular fat ) better than Continental breeds ( Charolais, Limousin, etc. ) with the latter producing higher yield grades ( i.e. quantity of red meat ).

Marbling in the meat is what determines quality grade and research has shown that Angus cattle as well as most all English breeds excel in this area. Not sure how much better Angus (black) calves perform compared to Red Angus, Hereford etc. but the Angus Association has done an outstanding job of marketing their product over the years.

Y'all make me feel good about my recent purchase of a half Angus/half Charolais bull calf. He's black, but momma was a purty Charlolais cow...we'll see in a year or two what he throws.

I was told by a guy I ran into that was running red angus or red brangus (I forget now). That they are the most docile cattle he's ever worked with. I think it was red brangus

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I was told by a guy I ran into that was running red angus or red brangus (I forget now). That they are the most docile cattle he's ever worked with. I think it was red brangus

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Here is another good point do discuss. Any breed can be tame. For your cow-calf operation, you simply get rid of the wild ones each year, and of course get them used to being handled and near humans.

Dr. Doug Wythe, now deceased I think, used to be an Animal Science professor at TAMU. He kept some of his ZEBU near the beef center which was located somewhat near where the Rec Center is now, and it was surrounded by empty fields. Dr. Wythe would take his classes there outside to see his cattle, usually a big bull, and explain to them how his Brahmas are very docile and not wild like the general perception of Brahma.

Another example, Chianina are used as oxen in Europe and are very docile. A classmate of mine who lived on the Alamo Angus Ranch, (now gone I think) told me about them importing some Chianina, which are very tall cattle usually, and turning them out to pasture. After being in the pasture a while, they turned pretty wild and had the ability and height to easily jump the existing fences that were there for their stock Angus cattle.

Backup question.

On less than 50 acres. Is having a bull worth it? I've been told just keep cows and use A.I.

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Backup question.

On less than 50 acres. Is having a bull worth it? I've been told just keep cows and use A.I.

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IMO on less than 50 acres I wouldn't run a year round cow calf operation. I'd run stockers of some kind, cows, calfs, thin cows. Graze until you run outta grass then sell everything. Then you don't have to worry about wintering any cows.

If you have under 10 head I would say to just AI.

I'm running an angus herd and using hereford bulls. The baldy calves usually top the local markets. I'm hoping I'm done with the sale barn and just have buyers come buy off the ranch.

Allen76, would be curious who you are and who your classmate was. My grandfather owned the Alamo Angus Ranch. My dad and uncle helped run it. It was sold years ago, Zachary owns it now. It is still there, but it is called something else now.

Hunter if you've got a truckload and want to hear some other marketing options I'd love to talk with you.

Or if anyone else on here does.

You mind if I ask, what's the deal with the sale barn? Just a hassle?

Any reason why Braunvieh are seldom mentioned?