My good friend and I started going down the Brazos River and camping on the sand bars a little over a year ago, and we have absolutely fallen in love with it. There is absolutely no one out there, and the river gives off a true sense of being in the wild, which is an experience difficult to find so close to Houston. We see tons of wild hogs and deer along with a variety of critters and birds. We have landed some pretty nice fish as well

We kind of joked around about the possibility of guiding other people down the river for a fee, but my friend has really started to look into it. He has looked at insurance, licenses, and wavers, and between the two of us we have enough gear to take a few people down the river to camp out for the night.

So I have come to the OB to see if y'all think there would be much interest in a service like this, to see what y'all think would be reasonable to charge, and to see if anyone has experience starting a business like this.

We really have no idea where to start with pricing. I have been thinking about something like this

3 hour guided evening trip on the Navasota - $45 per person

Overnight guided trip on the Brazos including dinner and breakfast - $150 per person

Guided two night extended kayaking trip all meals included - $375 per person

Have you considered canoes versus kayaks? I have only used canoes, but my son has done both, as both have their pros/cons.

We have not really considered them. I do not have much experience with them, we already own some kayaks, and we do not have a way of transporting a canoe at this point in time. Thanks for the input!

Sounds interesting. Whose property do you set up camp on over night?

This probably sounds negative but just something to think about for pricing and the type of services you're going to offer.

Do you have special access rights? could they put in and put out without your legal access? I'm thinking of the Devil's River where access is spotty.

Would your service involve a shuttle back up river or to where their transportation is?

Do you have special fishing holes that someone just float fishing down wouldn't come across? If everyone is in a kayak they are responsible for their own vessel control while fishing. If canoeing, you can control the vessel and keep them in the fishing position, which some would value.

My impression for Texas Rivers would be that your average kayak fisherman is probably confident they can come across fish floating down the river and the use of an outfitter or guide comes down to whether or not they need to utilize their legal access to the river.

I am inexperienced in this area though. I fish inshore saltwater in a bay boat and used to do it in a kayak , but have been down the Devil's and bowfished the Colorado.

I'd contend that the best part of the Brazos to float is just below Morris Shepard dam at Possum Kingdom to lake Granbury. That would be a sweet spot as the fishing there is excellent too. Distance to DFW isn't bad either. Hard to beat the Palo Pinto hills.

I forgot to mention that we are doing this just outside of College Station so the Brazos is much muddier here than in the areas upstream, but we still think it has a lot of beauty and adventure to offer.

Access to the river is not as strict as the Devil's River, but it is very limited. There are only a couple of spots in the area where a canoe or kayak can be launched without extreme effort. As a result there is practically no traffic on the river. We have never seen a jon boat, and we have only ran into a couple of other kayakers.

We know of couple of spots where we have good luck fishing, but we almost always beach our kayaks and fish from the shore. There is a very low possibility of having other kayakers come through our fishing spot so I am not very worried about having a conflict of that sort.

Our services will include transportation from College Station to the launch site and back again.

I too think that most average to experienced kayakers would be able to do a trip like this on their own albeit with somewhat of a learning curve. Our service will be aimed more towards people who are seeking an outdoor adventure, but do not have the equipment and/or the experience necessary to complete a trip like this. My friend and I are also moderately studied on the local flora, fauna, and history of the area, so we will be able to share this information with our guests in addition to safely guiding them down the river and back.

Within the banks of the river is public domain so we just camp on sandbars. One of the biggest problems I think we will face is that if the river is high there are no sandbars and therefore no place to camp. In that case a booked trip would have to be postponed or canceled.

FWIW, landowners on river banks at night rarely care about the law.

Or you can get a good idea of the locations you would normally stop and talk to nearby land owners to get permission to camp on their shore line when the water is higher.

Then again, your insurance may not like for you to guide when the water is high (implied more risk).

I think this is a good idea and could work. Hell, people pay for guided tours of buffalo bayou in Houston. But as posted above, definitely some wrinkles to iron out. I think insurance may be one of the tougher ones.

Also think you need to figure out price. I have no idea what someone should pay or what it would actually cost you to do this, but those prices seem steep to me. For $300 my buddy and I will just wing it and see how it goes.

I know it is public domain on the sandbars, but are you allowed to run a for profit business utilizing that land? As a land owner with 2 miles of Brazos river frontage, the occasional responsible camper doesn't bother me. However, someone attempting to camp every weekend and more than likely having a client that is prone to wandering to see the sights does worry me some.

Is there any specifics to the sandbar regulations?

Not sure where you're planning on camping. But remember if you're not along public lands, the river banks belong to the respective private land owners. The water is public but the land adjacent to it and underneath it is private.

But enjoy the fishing and best of luck with the guide service.

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Not sure where you're planning on camping. But remember if you're not along public lands, the river banks belong to the respective private land owners. The water is public but the land adjacent to it and underneath it is private.

But enjoy the fishing and best of luck with the guide service.

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It's not that clear..and has been debated over the ages. Even TP&W notes the same:

"Q: How do I determine the boundary of a streambed?

A: The Texas Supreme Court has stated that the bed of a stream is "that portion of its soil which is alternately covered and left bare as there may be an increase or diminution in the supply of water, and which is adequate to contain it at its average and mean stage during an entire year, without reference to the extra freshets of the winter or spring or the extreme drouths of the summer or autumn.5" Not clear? Again, the Texas Supreme Court: The streambed is that land between the "gradient boundary" on each bank. The gradient boundary is defined as "a gradient of the flowing water in the stream, and is located midway between the lower level of the flowing water that just reaches the cut bank and the higher level of it that just does not overtop the cut bank.6" Clear as mud? Blame it on those civil judges."

AND...
"Q: What is it legal to do in a public lake/stream?

A: Texas courts have recognized that a member of the public may engage in a variety of activities in, on, and along a public lake or stream. Besides boating, persons may swim, float, walk, wade, picnic, camp, and (with a license) fish.17 These activities must be confined to the waters of the lake or stream and the streambed. The public does not have the right to cross private property to get to or from public water"

TP&W

"Recognition of Public Access Rights by Recent Legislation
In an Act passed in 2003 generally prohibiting the operation of wheeled or tracked motor vehicles in the beds of streams navigable by statute, the Texas Legislature stated:

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(a) The legislature recognizes that the beds, bottoms, and banks of navigable rivers and navigable streams are precious and irreplaceable state resources that deserve protection.
(b) The legislature also recognizes that public access to navigable rivers, navigable streams, and the beds, bottoms, and banks of navigable rivers and streams is: (1) a right granted to individuals under the Texas Constitution; and (2) an important economic and recreational resource for the people of this state.

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Not sure where you're planning on camping. But remember if you're not along public lands, the river banks belong to the respective private land owners. The water is public but the land adjacent to it and underneath it is private.

But enjoy the fishing and best of luck with the guide service.

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Not this again...

Imo, that 3hr tour for 45$ is gonna put you outta business. Other than that, hammer down.

From a business view, I would be worried about the people that are willing to spend money on a river guide not wanting to get in the muddy Brazos. The Yups in TX dont mix well with icky water.

Personally, I would hate to see any level of commercialism brought to the Brazos. It's one of my only local sources of solitude in this crazy world and I hope it stays that way for years. The work involved in access is what makes it what it is. Consider if you really want to give up what you have in exchange for a little money?

If you could really put me on some quality fish for $45 I'd be all about it. The one night trip seems pretty reasonable to me but I might be one of the yups that wouldn't choose the Brazos near CS as my first spot for a guided trip. River Run Guide Service does trips on the Brazos but way up near Lake Whitney I think and I think he charges $125 a day w/ a 2 person minimum but that guy can really fish.

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Not sure where you're planning on camping. But remember if you're not along public lands, the river banks belong to the respective private land owners. The water is public but the land adjacent to it and underneath it is private.

But enjoy the fishing and best of luck with the guide service.

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Not true at all

Be careful with newbies north of Navasota...

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/spo/5194499323.html

Someone shutting down kayak school, selling equipment

We are more emphasizing the kayaking adventure part with the possibility of catching big fish too. If anyone is interested feel free to PM me. Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions!

You don't have to believe me or what you read in the law.

I've personally seen Game Wardens write trespassing tickets for fishing from riverbank of private land. (Purple marked and No Trespassing Signs posted).

The river water is public. The land is not. I'm just telling you what I've seen with my own eyes, and what the warden has told me. I'm just the messenger. You can argue with the warden all you want, but in my experience that never works out well.

River bank, yes. River bottom, no. They are not the same thing.

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You don't have to believe me or what you read in the law.

I've personally seen Game Wardens write trespassing tickets for fishing from riverbank of private land. (Purple marked and No Trespassing Signs posted).

The river water is public. The land is not. I'm just telling you what I've seen with my own eyes, and what the warden has told me. I'm just the messenger. You can argue with the warden all you want, but in my experience that never works out well.

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If it was on the Brazos and they were standing on the riverbank then most likely the GW was wrong.

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You don't have to believe me or what you read in the law.

I've personally seen Game Wardens write trespassing tickets for fishing from riverbank of private land. (Purple marked and No Trespassing Signs posted).

The river water is public. The land is not. I'm just telling you what I've seen with my own eyes, and what the warden has told me. I'm just the messenger. You can argue with the warden all you want, but in my experience that never works out well.

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Pretty simple if you read this ...

(b) The legislature also recognizes that public access to navigable rivers, navigable streams, and the BEDS, BOTTOMS, and BANKS of navigable rivers and streams is: (1) a right granted to individuals under the Texas Constitution; and (2) an important economic and recreational resource for the people of this state.

What if weather turns bad? Seek shelter in trees?

Can't that's definitely not river bed and is trespassing.

Got a client that needs to drop a deuce?

Better do it in the open, because river bed ends where the vegetation begins and your trespassing.

How professional will you look if a client and you get hassled by a land owner (even if you are in the right)?

I would think you would lose some repeat customers quick, which I think would be key to a good guide business.

It has potential, but securing regular contracted camp sites would be a better path to a solid business plan. Probably would be required for you to get proper insurance, which I would HIGHLY recommend in this type of business venture.

Camping on the sandbars in the river is standard operating procedure. Done it many times.

And in a lot of rivers there's plenty of room along the bank, below the gradient boundary to camp. Plus, in the event of a flood, the law allows a right of trespass so you can bug out to safety.

Dropping a deuce? On a lot of water you've got to carry a poo bucket and bags to pack it out. Basically a plastic bag full of kitty litter.

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Camping on the sandbars in the river is standard operating procedure. Done it many times.

And in a lot of rivers there's plenty of room along the bank, below the gradient boundary to camp. Plus, in the event of a flood, the law allows a right of trespass so you can bug out to safety.

Dropping a deuce? On a lot of water you've got to carry a poo bucket and bags to pack it out. Basically a plastic bag full of kitty litter.

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This.

Except the deuce part. I'm not carrying my poo in a bucket because some silly hippy thinks I should. Taking a crap is a natural thing, and when nature calls - well, nature is a great place to answer.