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It's kinda been addressed, but I'm wondering why OP wants to stay away from Remington? As has been said lots and lots of high end customs are built off 700s, and 700 clones, which kind of attests to the quality. I get that in bang for the buck, out of the box accuracy Savage is where it's at, but why not buy a 700, and have a starting point with more potential for down the road improvements? The savage triggers are nice, but you can drop a Timney 510 in for $140.

Nothing against Savage at all. At their price point it's hard to beat them, especially as a hunter, but if you really want to think about getting into long range shooting, I wouldn't dismiss Remington out of hand, they are used so much for a reason, and they are also the easiest model out there to find aftermarket upgrade parts for. Just a thought....

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What is it about the REM that makes it more attractive 'down the road'? more variety in aftermarket REM goodies? if the Savage is more accurate and cheaper to start with, what is the REM advantage?

I don't have a savage and only one REM so just curious. Personally I'm not a fan of push feeds but I do like my .270 mountain Rifle (and its the only gun I've taken past 600 yds)

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Don't get me wrong, I mostly agree with your post, except for 338 lapua is cost prohibitive from an ammo standpoint. Meaning that, if all he wants to do is hit steel for fun at 1000, I don't think it warrants spending that kind of dough for each trigger pull, IMO. If he wants to do it at 1400+, ok now we need to start talking about the big boys.

Without reloading, the 6.5 creedmoor or 308 will perform well enough to consistently hit a piece of steel at 1000, and will help teach fundamentals better, also.

With reloading, I would add .260 or 6.5x47 to the mix.

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Totally agree, 338 isn't for the meek hearted or the slim budgets. And I agree if you're just plinking to plink, stick with the NATO rounds, you can buy them buy the ammo cans cheap, and have at it.

But my followup was mainly aimed at the framework, and to me, out of the box shooters, Savage is hard to beat, hell I have an old Ted Williams Rem 700 BDL I bought for $120 at the Sears in Townshire Mall on Texas Ave when it first opened up decades ago that is still a tack driver for an old wore out 7 Mag, that has had a truckload literally shot thru it.

My latest affliction is my .458 SOCOM I built in an AR Rock River Frame that I have been blistering hogs with. Nothing nice about it. But it is a true, "One round, puts them down" kinda piece.



It kills in the front and wounds the behind...

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What do you recommend for .458 upper and barrel/barrel length?

And do you run a suppressor and have a recommendation for the .458?

I've barrel length doesn't do much for the .458 so curious as to what you have

Thanks in advance! Great posts!

I run an RRA 16" Chromoly Bull Tactical 1:14 twist with a RRA Beast Muzzle Brake. It's a milled A4 upper, with a low pro gas block.

Not a fan of suppressors personally, too much loss at the muzzle for very little gain. They are kind of a fad right now, but I just choose to steer clear of them.

They make a nice 20" for the 458 but with that chunk of lead it's not enough of a gain to sacrifice hauling the extra weight around, and maneuverability in tight heavy brush. The 458 is for close quarters killing not sniper work. Still learning the ropes with this piece, but it is a killer that's for certain. It packs a punch.

Thank you for the reply

Adjustable gas block?

I'm between cheap and dirty Radical .458 upper 10.5" or building one up but as a side charge

Personally I don't think savage limits you down the road anymore. There used to only be a lot of stocks/chassis and other improvements for the 700 action but Savage has a lot more aftermarket support than they used to.

700 actions do tend to resale higher though. But Savage starts out cheaper

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It's kinda been addressed, but I'm wondering why OP wants to stay away from Remington? As has been said lots and lots of high end customs are built off 700s, and 700 clones, which kind of attests to the quality. I get that in bang for the buck, out of the box accuracy Savage is where it's at, but why not buy a 700, and have a starting point with more potential for down the road improvements? The savage triggers are nice, but you can drop a Timney 510 in for $140.

Nothing against Savage at all. At their price point it's hard to beat them, especially as a hunter, but if you really want to think about getting into long range shooting, I wouldn't dismiss Remington out of hand, they are used so much for a reason, and they are also the easiest model out there to find aftermarket upgrade parts for. Just a thought....

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What is it about the REM that makes it more attractive 'down the road'? more variety in aftermarket REM goodies? if the Savage is more accurate and cheaper to start with, what is the REM advantage?

I don't have a savage and only one REM so just curious. Personally I'm not a fan of push feeds but I do like my .270 mountain Rifle (and its the only gun I've taken past 600 yds)

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I think the primary reason 700s are so often chosen for customs is their strength, and shape. Shape allowing it to bed well, and strength allowing the limits of the loads to be pushed safer...the whole 3 rings of steel thing.

And I'm not so sure the savage is more accurate out of the box, it's just a very good value for the accuracy it provides out of the box. CB is right, Savage is catching up on aftermarket upgrades, but isn't there yet, especially for their older models.

I don't see a wrong choice between the 2, I just wouldn't start out trying to stay away from what has long been the standard.

You are right that most if not all of the custom actions on based on the 700 but I think that has more to do with the time that action has been around than. Savage finally seems to have figured out that to be competitive they can't switch action designs every 5 years.

I wouldn't have a problem building off a 700 action but I like that the savage action lets you change the barrel out on your own. That is the reason when I get around to a bolt gun build it will be a Savage.

Can't really go wrong with either choice.

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You are right that most if not all of the custom actions on based on the 700 but I think that has more to do with the time that action has been around than. Savage finally seems to have figured out that to be competitive they can't switch action designs every 5 years.

I wouldn't have a problem building off a 700 action but I like that the savage action lets you change the barrel out on your own. That is the reason when I get around to a bolt gun build it will be a Savage.

Can't really go wrong with either choice.

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Yeah, the Savage barrel is definitely a point in their favor.

You are probably right that the longevity of the 700 action has contributed to its use in customs, but I don't think that is the main reason. I'm not a gunsmith, and the discussion I'm basing this on was a few years ago, and I don't remember all the specifics, but in discussing a custom build with a gunsmith he explained the whole 3 rings of steel thing to me (first I'd ever heard of it) and the margin of safety it provided in the event of a case failure. Also that instead of pin stops the bolt head on a 700 is designed to expand, essentially sealing the breech in the event of a failure. Much of his explanation was over my head, but he left me with the impression that he chose to use 700s, and it's clones because of the safety margin it's added strength provided.

I completely agree though that neither rifle is a wrong choice.

Does everyone generally agree the push feed 700's are generally more accurate? I've seen comparison to Mauser type actions have limitations push feed does not (?)

I'm wanting to pull out my 700 after this thread and shoot it some more. I've been so focused on CRF due to the type of shooting I do that I've put the 700 in back of mind

I want to build some bolt action shooters (thank you Mr Stoker - AR builds have shown me how much fun it is!) and the REM 700 seems to lead in terms of off the shelf DIY custom

That's an interesting point on the safety of the 700, I had never heard that. Need to keep reading up on bolt guns, sort of got focused only on ARs this last year

I would disagree that the 700 leads in DIY.

On both actions anyone that would trust themselves to do the work can change stock and trigger. But Savages are designed that the barrel can be changed easily but a 700 should go to professional. Savage barrels are attached similar to AR barrels in that you just have to torque them down correctly and headspace it with guages and its good to go. Whereas a 700 has to be installed then put on a lathe and machined to headspace it.

mfbarnes,

Great post, thanks for the info.

SIAP, cost-wise, how much does the March X scope that you are running go for?

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mfbarnes,

Great post, thanks for the info.

SIAP, cost-wise, how much does the March X scope that you are running go for?

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Tactical 8-80 x 56 IlluminatedPrice: $4200.00 8x-80x x 56mm MTR-1, MTR-2, MTR-3 or MTR-4. Illuminated reticles

700's are the old standard that has stood the test of time. It was like the small block Chevy, hasn't changed much over decades, until the later years, and they are all still a hybrid of the OEM, and they are still first come match day. 99% of the finest high end bench and rail guns are built on a polished up 700 action. Not a thing ever wrong with it. My first long gun was a 700 and I still own it today, it's hunted all over the world and fired more rounds thru it then you can fill up a sea can with. It's still a tack driver to this day and it's bone stock, Sears and Roebuck Ted Williams 700 BDL. The scope on it cost more than the rifle.

I personally am not a Weatherby fan and can't stand a Mauser action as for shootability and comfort. I'd just soon carry the 1940 6.5 Jap sniper rifle my pops brought home from the war. I know guys that swear by Weatherby's and won't shoot anything else, that's their preference.

I've become a fan of Savage since they brought in good design engineers and streamlined their design to a good reliable chambering that really makes a good build and friendly on the workbench, to the layman shooter, that likes to tinker on his own stuff.

Just enjoy your stuff, teach your kids everything about them, good and bad. Treat your weapons with respect, and always make sure you move the body across the threshold

Gig'EM

Barnes obviously knows his stuff. There is nothing wrong with building a rifle based on a 700 action. My last build was a 700 clone and it shoots lights out. Most people go with a higher end action because once you true up a Remington, you have gotten up in the range of a custom action. In my opinion the biggest factor is the barrel. Get a barrel from one of the high quality makers and a good smith and you are most of the way there.

Maybe I'll have to look at savage again too

One thing I've always preferred with a Mauser style action is the 3 position safety; that and CRF I've always leaned toward for hunting purposes which is my primary function.

But y'all have burst my bubble on the rebarreling a 700; I just bought a 798 in .270 I was going to rebarrel into a 7MAG and do it myself, and if I needed some machining have my uncle do it. But sounds like it's better to take it to a smith....

Barnes definitely know his stuff. Hopefully one day I'll have the experience to go along with what I've been to gather off of people like him.

And hopefully there's some college kid trying to gather knowledge off of me by then.

So Barnes, First Focal Plane or Second Focal Plane Glass? I'm looking at a Leupold Mk 4 or a NightForce NXS. Thoughts?

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So Barnes, First Focal Plane or Second Focal Plane Glass? I'm looking at a Leupold Mk 4 or a NightForce NXS. Thoughts?

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Great day for shooting today, wind was a little brisk but consistent and not gusting too bad, sho it made the dope calcs a little more fun.

Okay 1st FP vs 2nd FP, is really going to be dependent on what you are doing and how good you are with correction on the fly. The 2nd FP is your most common scope for the everyday shooter, and easy to use. You can straight zoom in and out with no other adjustment to the reticle, and your reticle stays the same all the time. It's simple and consistent.

Now if you are shooting bench at super lengths the 1sgt FP is going to be the way to go, you preset you reticle distances and tune your way in, it's not going to change your dope on paper, but it you shoot fine line reticles and you are really reaching out there, and mirage and heat waves are eating you up, you will see the big difference the 1st FP is going to make and help you in getting locked in.

I personally use both but it's application based on the decision. Hope that helps.

Also NightForce, hands down

Thanks. Was leaning that way

I have a Tikka Tactical in .308. It does have a threaded barrel. Right now I have a Sako muzzle break on it. It's also outfitted with Warne tactical rings and a Luepold Mark 4 M1 4.5-14x50 scope.

Here is a picture:

How does a pre 64 model 70 action compare to the 700's for long distance?

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How does a pre 64 model 70 action compare to the 700's for long distance?

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Most would probably prefer the 700 action for long distance bench - some might give an edge to the CRF in a hunting LD rifle

anything can shoot long range (theoretically) if you know your dope and your load etc But some choices will make it easier on the shooter and more practical be it hunting or bench

I prefer CRF and Mauser type actions but I shoot for hunting and not much bench but my longest range I've shot is with my Rem 700 mo

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How does a pre 64 model 70 action compare to the 700's for long distance?

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Most would probably prefer the 700 action for long distance bench - some might give an edge to the CRF in a hunting LD rifle

anything can shoot long range (theoretically) if you know your dope and your load etc But some choices will make it easier on the shooter and more practical be it hunting or bench

I prefer CRF and Mauser type actions but I shoot for hunting and not much bench but my longest range I've shot is with my Rem 700 mountain rifle

I'm sure mfbarnes and others have some better experience comparing the two though

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I'd be willing to bet Barnes took that review from another site and plagiarized or straight up copied it.

Is this thread's mfbarnes the same cat who is in a world of hurt over on the premium board because of the go fund me page scandal? Serious question bc I was enjoying his long range shooting posts. Wowzers. Barnes - come on bud - get in here and clarify.

You need to venture over to the workshop thread. Make sure you have a few spare hours, though.

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Barnes obviously knows his stuff.

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Barnes obviously knows his stuff.

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No, he doesn't, but he knows the people that do!

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He's pretty good at googling stuff.

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but you still are taking something someone else has done.

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yes, yes you are

Guys like Barnes are why a lot of Ags go to other boards. Sad excuse for an Aggie there.