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1911 fanatics, I just dont get it

7,334 Views | 55 Replies | Last: 14 yr ago by schmellba99
Puryear Playboy
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The order was within the last year and they has very, ahh...unique serial numbers. There were a couple of overrun frames left over from the production run.

So let me see if I get this strait...the number one company in the US selling high performance pistols to competitors (who will whine in a NY minute if they dont work) and .mil agencies around the world shipped a bunch of pistols to the US Army that jammed every 100 rounds? Doesnt sound like the whole story.

If their guns didnt work, they would be out of business because thats all they do. And they are the best at it.

[This message has been edited by Puryear Playboy (edited 6/30/2011 7:38p).]
NRH ag 10
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First off, the 1k replacement is for manufacturers that use lightweight springs to help guns function with weak ammo. The replacement intervals I pulled from Hilton Yam's maintenance article. Sure, guns will run just fine well past that point, just like cars will run with filthy oil or with cylinders not firing.

The relative ease of parts replacement enjoyed by more modern designs is very relevant to a discussion on the merits of one design vs. another. If you actually shoot your guns, things are eventually gonna break or need to be replaced. It's nice to be able to do that quickly and easily with drop in parts that only require a quick function check.

You're right that I don't have much personal experience with 1911s. For one, .45 would put me in the poor house if I shot it as much as I did my 9mms. Then there's the fact that they don't do anything appreciably better than the less expensive pistol I own but do plenty of things worse. Finally, I find it far less expensive and painful to follow the advice of professionals, each of whom have a lifetime of experience, when they're saying roughly the same thing.

Puryear- Knowing some of the OP's background, "full of ****" is the opposite of how I'd describe him. Note he said that under certain conditions with certain ammo, his gun wouldn't run consistently well. He also said other guns were veritable sewing machines and a few just plain sucked.

Are the SNs a digital barcode?
schmellba99
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So you don't like 1911's, and you don't like .45's. That's cool - we all have different tastes.

I don't agree with your thought process, but look at it this way - you not liking 1911's means more for me, and me not liking Glock's means more for you. We both win.

35chililights
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I think ya'll should dual.

You each get one round.
schmellba99
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Negative. I don't want to get shot with a paint ball gun, much less anything with punch to it.
35chililights
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but it is a epic internet chance to end the debate.

i will bring the popcorn and celox.
NRH ag 10
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Hold on guys, gotta raid the tac team's locker for some better armor and helmets.
tony
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which secret squirrel guys carry 1911s?

I worked with a variety in Afghanistan, right when I was getting into my gun education and didn't notice any 1911's. Lots of HK's in 45 sig p226's, and of course the ol m9.
CT'97
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I noticed several of the SF guys carried M9's around the FOB but when we rolled out the wire they had 1911's on their gear.

It really depends on when, where, and who you were around on what they carry. By and large they carry what they want though.
76Ag
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I never have understood the Glock love. They are ugly and I will never buy one. I do have an H&K that shoots well but when I purchased my Kimber I was amazed at how well it shot and how easy it was to use.
maverick2076
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On our last deployment, we spent a lot of time working with SF, and I saw exactly one guy, an old CSM, carrying a 1911. Everyone else was carrying M9's, Sigs, or HK's.

[This message has been edited by maverick2076 (edited 7/1/2011 7:34a).]
35chililights
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quote:
I never have understood the Glock love. They are ugly and I will never buy one.


It is just that some people dont have 'pleasing visual aesthetics' as a requirement when purchasing a fighting weapon. You apparently do, and there is nothing wrong with that.
DiskoTroop
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Life's too short to carry an ugly gun. Especially in Texas.
BrazosDog02
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quote:
Life's too short to carry an ugly gun. Especially in Texas.


Its going to be a hell of a lot shorter if that 'pretty' little gun you chose jams though.

quote:
I never have understood the Glock love.


I bought mine after a bunch of research about its quality and based on the fact that I see tons of officers carrying them. To me, that tells me they trust their lives to them. That's good enough for me. The other thing was the ease of field stripping and cleaning and the minimal amount of parts that 'come out' of it. I like that. Now that I own two, and have shot them a bunch, there is not a single other pistol manufacturer I would regularly trust my life to. Plain and simple. I would put my paycheck on the line to say the next time I pull the trigger, it will not only fire, but successfully chamber a new round. Other weapons will probably do the same, but I won't risk my paycheck or life over 'probably'. That is my own personal experience and opinion on Glock though.

I like it that Glock and 1911 owners are comparing dick sizes over it quite frankly. It means the weapons are close enough to each other quality wise to be worth arguing....thats not a bad thing.

[This message has been edited by jed1154 (edited 7/1/2011 10:19a).]

[This message has been edited by jed1154 (edited 7/1/2011 10:20a).]
Trick
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I'll keep mine simple - don't like the way a plastic gun fits, shoots, feels. Loved the 1911 from the first time I held one. It's just a preference thing - nothing more.

Oh and I take my Kimber anywhere I need it. Been caked over and submerged more than a few times running hog dogs in the backwoods of East Texas. Not all high end 1911's are safe queens.
schmellba99
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quote:
I never have understood the Glock love.


I understand it, because even though they are fugly and have horrible ergonomics, one cannot argue that they are reliable as hell. It really is their saving grace, and that is a very good saving grace to have.


quote:
I bought mine after a bunch of research about its quality and based on the fact that I see tons of officers carrying them.


While I would agree that many officers carry them now because they have developed and maintained a reputation for being reliable, they certainly did not start out that way. Glock had a badass marketing structure and was able to break into the market by offering their product at what would equate to cost when they first were introduced. Few police departments were going to turn down the price Glock was offering. It was a brilliant strategy, but most departments use them not just for their reliability, but also as a function of cost. Hard to blame them.

quote:
Then there's the fact that they don't do anything appreciably better than the less expensive pistol I own but do plenty of things worse.


I can agree that a 1911 doesn't do anything appreciably better than a Glock, XD, S&W, etc. when you boil it down to reliability - you pull the trigger, you expect the gun to fire. But to say that they do things worse is purely subjective, as is comparing ease of replacing parts. Sure, being able to replace an extractor with a drop in does add a marginal benefit, but the fact of the matter is (and I will disagree with the "experts" all day), you don't need to replace such parts at nearly the intervals that they recommend. When you put reality into replacement schedules, it becomes a fraction of the issue you are making it out to be. You view it as a function of making a choice in a pistol - good, there is nothing wrong with that. I view it as a very minor part of choosing a pistol because I know that it's not something that is going to be done every few thousand rounds. Subjective on both ends - and luckily we have the option of using our personal criteria to make decisions like this.

quote:
I would put my paycheck on the line to say the next time I pull the trigger, it will not only fire, but successfully chamber a new round. Other weapons will probably do the same, but I won't risk my paycheck or life over 'probably'.


Nothing wrong with that mentality at all. Nothing. I don't own a weapon that I would consider a SD weapon that won't do the same - and none of mine have Glock written on them. Doesn't mean that they are really any better or any worse, but there are other highly reliable firearms out there other than Glock as well. I'm not singling you out, but like the 1911 guys and the AR guys, Glock fans (in general) have this air of superiority about them with respect to their brand choice.

Hey, we all have to talk a little smack on occasion - otherwise gun discussions would be mundane and boring.

quote:
First off, the 1k replacement is for manufacturers that use lightweight springs to help guns function with weak ammo.


The link you provided only mentions 1k in one part - and that is a synthetic recoil buffer, which is an add on piece that was never part of the design.

3k-5k is what he recommends for an extractor, and that is woefully low for reality. I'm sure that some of the lower end manufacturers don't harden their extractors properly and that's probably an accurate assessment for cheaper parts from cheaper production lines, but the real world experience most of us have is decidedly different. (Caution, I'm going to be 'that guy' on this comment) - I can tell you that with at least 15k rounds through my officer's model, and probably closer to 20k total, the extractor never even had a hiccup. If the 1911 world had to replace their extractors at such intervals, there would be mass hysteria and crying on any and every message board. The fact of the matter is that most of the numbers on his page go beyond conservative and really aren't realistic.

Now, will there still be more regular maintenance required on a mid quality to high quality 1911 than a Glock? Undoubtedly, you'll find no argument from me on that one. But again, the reality is that this really becomes a small factor in the grand scheme of things, to me at least. If any of my 1911's were unreliable, I'd find a different platform I like better. Few things in life would be more disappointing and annoying than an unreliable firearm, even if it's pretty.
DiskoTroop
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Jed said:

quote:
Its going to be a hell of a lot shorter if that 'pretty' little gun you chose jams though.



No, you see I know how to keep my gun running. As some may inform you, a 1911 is a real enthusiest's gun. I know how it functions and how to keep it functioning. I'm not casual about it. Thusly my Kimber never had a malfunction in the 20K rounds I put through it and my Brown is absolutely flawless in the 1700 I've put through it thus far. Once again, it's a shame that the myth that 1911's are unreliable is still so prevailant.
BrazosDog02
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Oh goodness....relax. No offense intended. It was supposed to be humorous/trollish. This **** is getting way too serious. Truth be told, Id have a Kimber if I could justify the expense or get permission. :/

quote:
I'll keep mine simple - don't like the way a plastic gun fits, shoots, feels.


Fair enough. Its all good.

quote:
Nothing wrong with that mentality at all. Nothing. I don't own a weapon that I would consider a SD weapon that won't do the same - and none of mine have Glock written on them. Doesn't mean that they are really any better or any worse, but there are other highly reliable firearms out there other than Glock as well. I'm not singling you out, but like the 1911 guys and the AR guys, Glock fans (in general) have this air of superiority about them with respect to their brand choice.


I can see that. Didn't mean for it to come across that way though. If I had any other gun and had run so many rounds through it without a hiccup, I would say the same about it. I can't afford to go through that kind of testing though! When I bought mine many years ago, I was considering it or the beretta 92....which to me was an absolute piece of beauty. It was more expensive though too. That was a big deal to me at 19 years old.

[This message has been edited by jed1154 (edited 7/1/2011 12:06p).]
96AustinAg
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Really, REALLY need to dispel the "knockdown power" myth. It punches a slightly bigger hole. It may offer better intermediate barrier performance than a 9mm. However, shoot anyone with a handgun, and the only thing stopping them is GOOD HITS. A pistol is a hole punch.

I'd suggest some of y'all take a look at this post from a well respected ballistics expert and check out some of the links contained within.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

[This message has been edited by 96AustinAg (edited 7/1/2011 12:08p).]
Neches21
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I have a Glock and a 1911.
If I lost everything and needed to sell all I had, the 1911 would be the first to go.

If I could only keep one weapon to protect myself in this world, it would be my Glock. It's reliability has been proven over and over.
Ammunition is more available. It is lighter, simpler, and carries more bullets.

Attributing the notion of a "soul" is for hobbyist.


[This message has been edited by Neches21 (edited 7/1/2011 12:54p).]
CT'97
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96AustinAg is right, you kill people with pistols by putting lots of holes through vital organs. It really doesn't matter if that whole is .45 inches in diameter or .38.

The human body has the ability to absorb huge amounts of damage and keep working especially if that person is hopped up on drugs or adrenaline.
schmellba99
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quote:
96AustinAg is right, you kill people with pistols by putting lots of holes through vital organs. It really doesn't matter if that whole is .45 inches in diameter or .38.

The human body has the ability to absorb huge amounts of damage and keep working especially if that person is hopped up on drugs or adrenaline.


I don't think anybody is arguing this point. The question asked in the thread was basically "why do you like 1911's so much?"
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