House I grew up in had double keyed cylinders (as does my parents house now). Mom would come home in the evening, walk through the house to the front door and check the mail and then leave her key in the door. Dad would come home later and leave his keys in the back door. So all night there were keys in the doors for easy exit if needed, but during the day those doors weren't opening. The one time we were broken into, everything had to go out through the window they entered from.

Dog inside the house....

We had a well respected lady talk to us at a technical security conference a few weeks ago that did her masters work at Sing Sing talking to criminals... Number 1 deterrent, not a pump shot gun, or an alarm system, or bars or anything else... a big loud dog... b/c they are loud, the bite and they are unpredictable...

Sweet Jesus, I hope you guys claiming you'd pepper the car on the way out weren't serious... if you were, you might want to review your friendly Texas deadly force laws.

plus it's just not smart from a tactical standpoint.

to unnecessarily enter a potential firefight, outnumbered, them behind cover (car) and you not. Not knowing what kind of firepower they might have.

Is my life, and the life of my family worth that? Hell no. Stay in a defensive position where I have the element of surprise.

meh...Im a wuss. Id wait for them to kick the door in and then pass the corner where I could shoot them in the back....but in this situation, that's just how I would roll.

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Sweet Jesus, I hope you guys claiming you'd pepper the car on the way out weren't serious... if you were, you might want to review your friendly Texas deadly force laws.

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Last time I checked, deadly force is justified if someone is on your property and committing a crime during nightime hours. Just be sure to call the police immediately if you do pull the trigger.

"I was in fear of my life, officer."

[This message has been edited by Log (edited 8/11/2010 11:54a).]

As a Security Professional, I can say that cameras and security systems are great REACTIONARY devices. Cameras and other alarm type devices will help the police peice together their case as they search for, and prosecute the person who robbed your house. They WILL NOT help you if you are home and someone is trying to beat in your door. You did basically all the right things. Some have touched on it, but you should have yelled through the door that you had a firearm and that you were calling the police.

There are a couple of ways you can guard against such things. Gates at the edge of the property are excellent but sometimes expensive if you want them to open like a garage door. Burgler bars will help on windows and you can get door sized bars for your front and back doors as well. We have one on the our front door. We have a storm door, a solid core wooden door, and the burgler bars. We like to leave the wood door open, the storm door and burgler bar door closed. It makes like a nice big window. Also, sliding locking bars, some as simple as this gate hardware...

http://www.hooverfence.com/woodfence/slideblatch.htm

are really good at reinforcing the strength of your door.

Other than that, load up the 00 buck and hope the skeeze doesn't get in.

"I was in fear of my life as they were in the car driving away from my property" isn't gonna cut the mustard.


Now the thing that I call livin' is just bein' satisfied with knowin' I got no one left to blame

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Last time I checked, deadly force is justified if someone is on your property and committing a crime during nightime hours. Just be sure to call the police immediately if you do pull the trigger.

"I was in fear of my life, officer."

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You can still go to jail and be sued by the criminal's family if they were in their car and fleeing. It's hard to claim you feared for your life if they are running away.

If you are going to pull the trigger...

1. They should be in your house or if not they better be on your property and causing a threat (not running away).
2. They better not live.

Shooting someone in the back or shooting their car as they flee gets you thrown in jail. Pulling the trigger without a kill opens you up to civil cases. If they don't live, there is only one side of the story.



[This message has been edited by chjoak (edited 8/11/2010 12:10p).]

pneumatic road spikes on the way out.

Sounds pretty clear to me:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm

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Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.

(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or

(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.



Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.





Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

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Log: If they had actually committed one of the offenses in 2(b) it is one thing, but I don't think kicking the door would be enough to justify deadly force if they were retreating in a car.

Now if you are saying that he had justification for peppering the door to prevent the act, you may have a stronger argument, but then you still risk it being a drunk friend.

Other than not yelling, I think he did the right thing.

When there was a burglar in our neighborhood I would walk around in full camo near dark with my AK. As far as I can tell the break ins stopped when I began this practice.

sounds like a good way to get shot by one of the other goobers on texags.

If you have a gate area, can't you use one of those tire spikes (like they use at rental car places) I assume you can have them work like a garage door opener and set them at night or when you are gone. Do not know how much they cost, but most thiefs won't make the effort to carry a big TV far.

Surprized more people do not use them.

OK...so this is what I am thinking that I am going to do or have done already. I have installed new stronger doors in all entry ways. I also purchased security storm doors with tempered glass and 3 locks (top, middle and bottom). I am going to install a sensor at the entry of the driveway to alert us in the house that a car/person has entered our property. Also I like the idea of a few motion lights and I am going to install 2 very bright lights on the corner of the house that is tied to a switch in the bedroom so that if anyone is ringing the doorbell or comes on the property I can have a ton of light. One of the problems I had was that I wasn't able to see what the perp looked like or get a good description of the car. What do y'all think of that plan?

something with sharks would be nice too.

Essentially the principle is this: make your house appear to be a very uninviting target. Think how the low-life thinks. He is canvassing an area, looking for a good target. What is going to make him turn away and go after your neighbors instead?

We've got a little Sony camera that broadcasts to a receiver on our TV.

We got it to be able to watch our son after we moved him into his own room since he was a micro-preemie.

All you would have to do is install the camera somewhere in the entry way where you had an electrical outlet and then turn on the TV to the right channel to be able to see what was happening on the front porch.

"The best social program is a job."
-Ronald Reagan

http://www.marchforbabies.com/

Log pretty much covered it.

Seems that many folks here are unfamiliar with the very laws that you would throw in our face...and even more are uncomfortable with the application of deadly force. I hope the darkness never visits you...

Its a blessing in many ways that we live in a country and a culture that isolates us from the grim reality that the world is governed by the aggressive use of force and that life is the cheapest commodity of all.

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Its a blessing in many ways that we live in a country and a culture that isolates us from the grim reality that the world is governed by the aggressive use of force and that life is the cheapest commodity of all.

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What do y'all think of that plan?

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sounds good.

I would get something, like a live camera or game camera, that can get the vehicle description for you. One less thing for you have to worry about remembering in the heat of the moment.

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Seems that many folks here are unfamiliar with the very laws that you would throw in our face

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Maybe you should go re-read what Log posted and then see if you'd still like to sit up on that high horse.

Had the OP shot at the car as he was fleeing, he could have potentially faced charges. The perp didn't steal anything. The law posted very clearly states that the use of deadly force against a fleeing perp in order to recover stolen property is justified. Shooting at a guy who is NO LONGER kicking on your front door and is now making his escape without having taken any your property is NOT justified under that law.




Now the thing that I call livin' is just bein' satisfied with knowin' I got no one left to blame

Oops, wrong poster, my bad

[This message has been edited by ursusguy (edited 8/11/2010 8:02p).]

In the car and driving away? Likely so. But maybe not in the county I live in...

But running back to the car? Not likely. He is still on the property. And why is he running back to the car? To get a gun? Maybe to tell his buddy to ram the car into the house? Or to take cover while he engages the house with a firearm from cover. There is still an articulable threat until the car is heading for the highway...

Plenty of hairs to split here.

For all the property owner knows, the perp did steal something. Part of the reason for the nighttime provision in this law - to cover the victim.

Case in point--When I was living in Lubbock, I had someone pounding like crazy on my door at midnight. It was pizza delivery man who was mugged outside my apartment, and got his jaw broke and trachea partially crushed (so he couldn't yell, or speak).

[This message has been edited by ursusguy (edited 8/11/2010 10:46p).]

I have to disagree. The Law is ALL about the "maybe's".

This is why (one of the reasons why) we have a trial by jury instead of a Judge issuing verdicts from the bench.

I like the part about the guy kicking the door in to get you to call 911 for his wife...I thought I was taking a few liberties with the OP's story. That's imaginitive...

I agree. Shooting through the door without A LOT of visual confirmation of what is on the other side is never a good idea...legal or not.

Oh, I see. You are the only one with "real world" experience...wow...thanks for sharing with all of us little people.

That know it all attitude, combined with the black and white, with no grey, mentality must be a real winner in the Real World.

I'm glad the interweb provides you with a place to demostrate your intelligence for the world to admire.

PP - Perhaps dlance is an attorney or judge, giving him real world experience that does mean something in this context. He didn't say he was the only one with this experience, so don't take it so hard.

Just because I agree with dlance - see my post immediately below Log's quote of the statute where I raised the same points - doesn't mean that a jury wouldn't be sympathetic and misinterpret the law. However, Log's argument about the owner believing that the perp did steal something would be quickly negated by the OP's statement that the guy did not come into the house, despite the effort.

If this

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Seems that many folks here are unfamiliar with the very laws that you would throw in our face...and even more are uncomfortable with the application of deadly force. I hope the darkness never visits you...

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was directed at me, and you did in fact read my first post when writing this, then I'll just say that although I don't specialize in criminal law, I will put my tu JD up against anyone when analyzing statutes.

For the record, my comments on this website do not constitute legal advice to any particular person, and should not be relied upon as such. If any person has a legal question, they should consult their own licensed attorney.

Another thing to remember is that even though a person may not be convicted, going through a trial and the cost of a good defense is probably not worth shooting someone over unless the shooter is certain that something very valuable is being stolen. Worse yet, for people in areas with gangs, the risk of retaliation by a another gang member would certainly make me think twice before shooting someone. I hope to never be in that situation to know how it would really play out though.

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Case in point--When I was living in Lubbock, I had someone pounding like crazy on my door at midnight. It was pizza delivery man who was mugged outside my apartment, and got his jaw broke and trachea partially crushed (so he couldn't yell, or speak).

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he was faking so he could case the joint. i hope you blasted him, he might have thought about stealing something!