I was curious if we had any other artifact collectors on the OB? Do any of you guys have mounds on your property or leases? I know alot of the guys on here are knowledgable about what is fair/reasonable for various hunting leases but I wondered if anybody on here had any experience with leasing a property strictly for surface hunting or digging for arrowheads? I have permission to dig one ranch near Campwood but would be interested in looking into a lease.

I've found random stuff on family/friends' land, but I only have one arrowhead from a deer lease. Just found it while walking thru the woods, and the owner didn't want it.

One of my relatives has a place just outside Victoria with an ancient campsite from the same Indians that populated Buckeye Knoll just outside the Dupont property outside Victoria. His place is on the opposite side of town, but not far from the Guadalupe. Here's a picture of a Waco Sinker that we found out there one day on a dig. God knows what it's worth. It's the best one I've ever seen in anyone's collection. He won't let anyone out there anymore. He's old and very reclusive. I have about 10 artifacts that I've collected over the years.

If you need someone to join you digging sometime, let me know. I enjoy that stuff. I have a pretty cool fossil collection, too.

Arrowhead:



Waco Sinker:



Knife:

Here's my post about on the history forum about the Paleo-Texans and Horn Shelter #2 in regards to my friend's place on the Brazos. I've never done any hunting though, as much as I want to I'll leave that to the professionals.

[This message has been edited by p_bubel (edited 4/18/2009 8:14p).]

I've never heard of anyone leasing land for hunting arrowheads and such. I do have a lot of experience with pothunters who trespass on your land, dig humongous holes, then leave you to fill them in. I hate those guys.

That said, I have a bunch of arrowheads I picked up over the years and a nice pot. I got such a hinky feeling the time we dug up an indian grave, I quit the digging part.




[This message has been edited by DevilYack (edited 4/18/2009 8:32p).]

Your right tx4guns,

That Waco Sinker is a fine piece.

Devil, nice collection. Those look like East TX finds?

Devil,

That spearhead is worth some jack. You should have it appraised. Probably over $1,000 easy.

We have several Indian mounds that are located along our canyon walls as the seasonal creeks run in to Cherokee Creek. At one point we started to execavate one and then decided not to. We know where they are and that seems good enough. Just decided to leave them as they were.

Just out of curiosity, what county are you in Urban? I'm not familiar with Cherokee Creek.

Here's a few of our nicer pieces.


Sabinal from south of Campwood



Friday blade from Comfort



[This message has been edited by raidernarizona (edited 4/19/2009 8:22a).]

Those are really nice. The sinker and knife that I showed pre-date the American Indians. If you're not familiar with the Buckeye Knoll excavation, Google it. Pretty interesting stuff. Most of is has not been dug b/c the gov't shut it down b/c they claimed it to be a burial site. What they didn't tell you is that the American Indians were the champions of the shut-down effort b/c it proved that they were not the "natives" and a society pre-dated them. Very political.

That stuff of mine is Caddo from NE Texas - Titus Co. The things in the picture are not really nice (except for the pot). My folks have a pot 3X that size and tons of nice arrowheads. I used to have a really nice black celt, but it disappeared somewhere.

I've found a few points in various areas of Texas and a couple in Missouri. I'll have to dig up the pics. We got on a hunting lease near Laredo that I've been finding several points (all surface finds). Up until this year I'd only find a few each year, but this year I've really gotten into them. I think I've got around 60 from the lease now. It's very interesting that they come from anywhere from 600 to 6000 years ago. I've never gone on a dig before, but wouldn't mind trying it out sometime. I'd like to take my dad to hunt for points as he really enjoys it. Unfortunately he has a harder time seeing them with is 'old' eyes.

bfmvet,

I've heard of people doing really well surface hunting in that area of South Texas. I'd like to see some pics of your points if you have some. It's a hobby my Dad and I share, and it's definitely one of our favorite ways to spend time together.

raider - Cherokee Creek run roughly east west in south San Saba co with the spring fed headwaters just outside Cherokee. It dumps into the Colorado right at the Lampasas co line just above Colordao Bend state park. We are right down there in the southeast corner of the county where San Saba, Lampasas, and Llano counties are come together. There are multiple known indian artifact locations down in that corner, I assume because of the abundance of water. My uncle's place is up on the north central side of the county along the Colorado and they have an area they walk regularly after rains and can almost always find something. They have boxes or arrowheads, spear heads, etc.

From Laredo and have hunted lots of different ranches in and around Laredo. Have collect a lots of arrowheads over the years and they always been surface finds.

We used to be told by my granddad that we needed to look for collection of snails and this is where we would find arrowheads.

quote:

---

What they didn't tell you is that the American Indians were the champions of the shut-down effort b/c it proved that they were not the "natives" and a society pre-dated them. Very political.

---

Now that's some interesting stuff there.

I bet the US Government doesn't want to get involved in this argument.

Here's some Buckeye Knoll info:

http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/st-plains/images/ap9.html

http://www.swg.usace.army.mil/pe/41VT98/VictoriaAdvocate040206.pdf

C of E findings report:
http://rla.unc.edu/saa/repat/Agency/VT98_Findings.2003-07-15.pdf


From the first report: "grooved quartzite stones" - sound familiar? Look at my picture above.

Gary point (4000bc to 1000ad) I found north of Houston:



If you ever want some help identifying the type and age of your points, I found some good websites, and also an amateur collector that buys points, and would help identify and may give a spot appraisal on one that runs one of the websites I found.

Mouth,

Do you surface hunt around the Houston area? I have a kayak and have thought about checking out some of the sandbars in nearby rivers but I'm new to the area and not really sure where to start. I saw an ad for a fishing guide that does guided surface hunts up in Montgomery County. I might have to give them a call.

I found it scrounging around in a gravel bar in a local creek, and wasn't really looking for them at the time. Chance find. Creeks are the best place to look. Any place where gravel gets trapped will also tend to trap other debris of similar density. Look where you see old riverworn broken glass as well. (just use shoes/gloves) as it will also collect in the same places.

That Buckeye Knoll stuff is very interesting and complicated.

Most of the Indian tribes consulted wanted everybody to just put artifacts back in the ground and not acknowledge a huge difference in time of the existence of the ancient tribe buried there.

All over the world, countries became what they are by the current people living there taking over the land from the previous occupant. Here, we are so politically correct that we practically beg for rulings from the various tribes that live or lived in Texas.

I say it's high time to let anyone start their own casino.

Agreed that this is complicated, just like the Kenniwick Man issues in the NE. However, to be clear, the tribes objections were based on their beliefs about disturbing graves of what they claim are ancestors. As I understand it, the Lipan Apache felt they were responsible for these remains as Native People and objected to what amounts to digging up a cemetary.

It poses an interesting question as to who has the right to protect ancestral remains vs. scientific inquiry that remains to be settled. It is not hard to see the tribes view (as I don't want people digging up cemetaries where I have relatives burried). It is also not hard to see the scientists view -- these remains are much older than the arrival of the Athabaskan groups (of which the Apache are a part), and they should be allowed to excavate and study.

Athabaskan.... new vocabulary word for the day.

Now, to use that in a sentence....