Fenrir said:

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Video games don't have anything analagous to a movie getting released in theaters.

Movies get bought, watched and sold once released physically all the time.

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Movies and games are both digital entertainment media. The only thing not analagous is movies have a built-in protection mechanism to prevent cannabalization of sales via the used market for the first few months after release. The bulk of lifetime sales for video games is within the first month of release.

Regardless, I am not advocating for any kind of special protections for video games. People can buy/sell what they want. If you would prefer to give money to Gamestop rather than the people who made the game you are playing, that is your prerogative.

But I certainly won't shed a tear to see Gamestop go away, as they are taking money out of my pocket.

Pac1698 said:

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One thing you are not considering is that if I buy that "used" game from GameStop and realize it's crap, I can take it back (within a week, I think it used to be 2 weeks) and get my money back. If I buy the game new and it's crap, I'm out $60. Thankfully I can take that crap game to GameStop and they might help me ease the pain of my bad purchase by giving me $30 trade credit. Over the last couple of years with the exception of Destiny, i refuse to pay full price for any game. I'll wait until they drop below $10 (PSN sales).

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I certainly won't argue there are plenty of games that aren't worth the $60 price tag. Buyer beware.

I, too, rarely buy a full price $60 game. Most games will drop in price to $40 or so within a couple months once the first month sales spike is over. I almost 100% buy digital now anyways, so used is not even really a consideration. With 3 young kids at home, physical discs have a tendency to disappear or get scratched/damaged.

Do you all still make money off of my digital purchases even when the games are discounted on the PSN? I hope so, I really do prefer to help out the developers (I know the hard work that goes in to it). I'm sorry that my previous post came off rude, I didn't mean for it to sound that way.

Pac1698 said:

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Do you all still make money off of my digital purchases even when the games are discounted on the PSN? I hope so, I really do prefer to help out the developers (I know the hard work that goes in to it). I'm sorry that my previous post came off rude, I didn't mean for it to sound that way.

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No worries. Didn't take anything you said as rude. And yes, devs get a portion of any non-used sales, digital or physical.

I did not even have a hard drive i my Tandy HX 1000 back in 1988. Just 3.5" and 5.25" floppy drives

Frankly, I'm surprised they are still around. They have a completely unsustainable model over the long haul as bandwidth speeds continue to increase.

I haven't purchased a physical game in many years. It is an absolute waste of my time to get in my car and drive somewhere to buy a game when I can download it in 5 minutes or less on my PC or XBox. The only reasons I can find for getting physical media over digital are:

• You live in the country and are stuck with slow internet.
• You are price sensitive and the immediate urge to buy a game off retail must be met right then.

That would have pissed me off very quickly.

91AggieLawyer said:

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Gamestop makes huge margins on used game sales, while the developer sees zero dollars.

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Looking at it another way, if there wasn't a market for used games, wouldn't that hurt the market for new games? In other words, if you knew you couldn't sell your games when you got tired of them, wouldn't that decrease what they'd sell for initially? I'm not a gamer so I don't know for sure, but I'd bet on it.

Also, haven't you already been paid for the new game sale?

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This. I don't understand the argument that video games should be the only market out there where every time your product exchanges hands you the developer should get paid. Every product out there stands a good chance of getting resold after its initial sale.

mugwurt said:

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The Fife said:

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wangus12 said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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I much prefer digital, but physical is almost always cheaper on consoles. Changing discs or cartridges sucks though.

Too bad you can't buy a steam version that works across all platforms.

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The digital games never same to get marked down after release. For instance, I just typed in Assassin's Creed on Microsoft's store and the two games prior to the most recent one are still listed at $59. I know I can go into a Gamestop and buy it for probably less than $30.

I still like the physical copies. You can always get them way cheaper.

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This. I just pulled up Super Mario Odyssey as an example. Download... $60. Physical copy, half that. It was released 18 months ago so why the day 1 pricing for the download?

The other reason I prefer physical copies is because I already lost a ton of downloaded stuff when a Wii crapped out last year. There was no way to recover any of it while my discs (and ROMs...) soldier on.

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I don't know how Nintendo handles digital purchases/library, but I know your PS4 and Xbox accounts have record of the games you have purchased digitally, and you can re-download them at any time.

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If all of this were on a Wii-U it wouldn't have been an issue, they handled regular Wii differently.

Something similar happened when our launch day xBox 360 crapped out and lots of older delisted stuff went away. I could probably pull the hard drive and get at it somehow if I wanted to retrieve everything though.

AggieFanatic09 said:

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The Fife said:

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wangus12 said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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I much prefer digital, but physical is almost always cheaper on consoles. Changing discs or cartridges sucks though.

Too bad you can't buy a steam version that works across all platforms.

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The digital games never same to get marked down after release. For instance, I just typed in Assassin's Creed on Microsoft's store and the two games prior to the most recent one are still listed at $59. I know I can go into a Gamestop and buy it for probably less than $30.

I still like the physical copies. You can always get them way cheaper.

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This. I just pulled up Super Mario Odyssey as an example. Download... $60. Physical copy, half that. It was released 18 months ago so why the day 1 pricing for the download?

The other reason I prefer physical copies is because I already lost a ton of downloaded stuff when a Wii crapped out last year. There was no way to recover any of it while my discs (and ROMs...) soldier on.

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Gotta move that product to get it off the shelf and make room for the new stuff when it comes to market. Difference between brick and mortar inventory churning vs. a digital market place where "shelf space" costs nothing.

Also, keeping them at full price online indicates that they believe the convenience factor or impulse buy scenarios make up for the need to discount. It could also be indicative of a way to keep profits higher since they know the B&M revenue stream is declining.

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I'd agree if the prices I found were from running over to Best Buy or somewhere but this was pricing for used copies online. It does have to sit somewhere, but my guess is that it's not occupying higher rent shelf space. Probably just a box or back room rack, or someone's house if what I saw was from eBay.

The Fife said:

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AggieFanatic09 said:

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The Fife said:

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wangus12 said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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I much prefer digital, but physical is almost always cheaper on consoles. Changing discs or cartridges sucks though.

Too bad you can't buy a steam version that works across all platforms.

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The digital games never same to get marked down after release. For instance, I just typed in Assassin's Creed on Microsoft's store and the two games prior to the most recent one are still listed at $59. I know I can go into a Gamestop and buy it for probably less than $30.

I still like the physical copies. You can always get them way cheaper.

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This. I just pulled up Super Mario Odyssey as an example. Download... $60. Physical copy, half that. It was released 18 months ago so why the day 1 pricing for the download?

The other reason I prefer physical copies is because I already lost a ton of downloaded stuff when a Wii crapped out last year. There was no way to recover any of it while my discs (and ROMs...) soldier on.

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Gotta move that product to get it off the shelf and make room for the new stuff when it comes to market. Difference between brick and mortar inventory churning vs. a digital market place where "shelf space" costs nothing.

Also, keeping them at full price online indicates that they believe the convenience factor or impulse buy scenarios make up for the need to discount. It could also be indicative of a way to keep profits higher since they know the B&M revenue stream is declining.

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I'd agree if the prices I found were from running over to Best Buy or somewhere but this was pricing for used copies online. It does have to sit somewhere, but my guess is that it's not occupying higher rent shelf space. Probably just a box or back room rack, or someone's house if what I saw was from eBay.

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Well, if it's just sitting in someone's back room, then it's more of a result of someone just trying to unload it.

I'd compare that to someone building a $700k house then having to move or lost their job. They need the cash to unload a product that is worth more to the market. Doesn't mean the home builder across the street will lower their price.

I'm sure they feel the economy is rolling enough right now where an extra $20 per copy isn't going to deter consumers. They likely view the game price as immaterial given the other investments (time and money) already in their ecosystem from consumers (the actual unit, controllers, hard drives, headsets, Xbox live, micropay $)

tv1113 said:

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Most gamers prefer physical copies? I'm not so sure that is accurate anymore but I could be wrong. I'm never buying a disk again if I can help it.

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I'll buy the disk if I know I'm not gonna play it more than once through...

The Fife said:

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mugwurt said:

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The Fife said:

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wangus12 said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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I much prefer digital, but physical is almost always cheaper on consoles. Changing discs or cartridges sucks though.

Too bad you can't buy a steam version that works across all platforms.

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The digital games never same to get marked down after release. For instance, I just typed in Assassin's Creed on Microsoft's store and the two games prior to the most recent one are still listed at $59. I know I can go into a Gamestop and buy it for probably less than $30.

I still like the physical copies. You can always get them way cheaper.

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This. I just pulled up Super Mario Odyssey as an example. Download... $60. Physical copy, half that. It was released 18 months ago so why the day 1 pricing for the download?

The other reason I prefer physical copies is because I already lost a ton of downloaded stuff when a Wii crapped out last year. There was no way to recover any of it while my discs (and ROMs...) soldier on.

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I don't know how Nintendo handles digital purchases/library, but I know your PS4 and Xbox accounts have record of the games you have purchased digitally, and you can re-download them at any time.

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If all of this were on a Wii-U it wouldn't have been an issue, they handled regular Wii differently.

Something similar happened when our launch day xBox 360 crapped out and lots of older delisted stuff went away. I could probably pull the hard drive and get at it somehow if I wanted to retrieve everything though.

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FWIW, you can transfer your entire Wii data (games, saves, etc.) into a Wii U, if you have one.

AggieFrog said:

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Storage is dirt cheap and getting cheaper. And internet connections are only going to get faster and even more ubiquitous. It's pretty dang amazing since I used to think 100mb hard drive and a 2800 baud modem were great on my first PC 27+ years ago.

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2400 baud but who's counting?

mugwurt said:

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As a video game developer for 20 years, i say good riddance. Gamestop's entire business model is extremely anti-developer, i.e. aggressively selling used copies of games within a week of release. Gamestop makes huge margins on used game sales, while the developer sees zero dollars.

Games shifting to predominantly digital distribution was an inevitable outcome. It is more convenient for consumers, and it is a big plus for game developers, especially small-medium sized independent developers who don't have the marketing budget to buy shelf space in brick and mortar stores.

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The used car industry is bad for auto companies. And **** used bookstores or garage sales

Industries are WAY more complicated than that. A secondary market may impact one industry far greater than it does another one. The competition and cycle of video games is way different than a washer, car or home. The secondary market for a diamond ring is way smaller and different than the secondary market for a video game. The up front costs for an author relative to potential revenues is way way less than a video game. The secondary market for a washer and dryer is not going to be as strong as that for a video game, because there are people who simply won't buy a used washer and dryer, because they don't know the condition of the washer and dryer a video game does not degrade like that.

A used video game is effectively and functionally the same as a new video game. Unlike a house, unlike a car, unlike a washer and dryer. It is exactly the same except for the cellophane it's wrapped in. Used games also appear on the market within days of release rather than within years.

The best comparison you provided is the author, but the upfront costs/time invested in generating that content is far less than a video game.


The best comparison I can come up with is a film, but a film has an exclusivity window (theatrical release) that a video game does not. It would be like if video games decided to have an exclusive digital release for 3 months and then release their physical copies.


For your understanding, a video game company makes 15-20% of all of their money off of a game within the first week of sales.

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Nothing you said changes that one fact, so if you want to change your profit margin, raise your prices, lower your costs, or do a combination of the two.

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that's exactly what's happening with the SaaS model. They are raising prices, effectively. They are just doing in intelligently because people are training the gaming companies to do this.

91AggieLawyer said:

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Don't assume that those left without a chance to buy a used copy of your game will opt for a new copy. They may not buy one at all or might buy something else.

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Used sales on games that are not brand new is not really an issue, and doesn't substantially affect the developer's bottom line/sales.

When it comes to new games, keeping in mind that games make the vast majority of sales in the first month after release, the most common use case is customers go into the store looking for a specific new game, and Gamestop says "you can buy this 'used' copy for $5 less" ($55 instead of $60). Of course, the customer is going to say "sure". I don't blame customers for wanting to pay less. But the vast majority of cases is the customer was going to buy the new game anyways, but instead of the developer making money on their work, Gamestop makes huge profits for doing nothing.

I am not arguing for some sort of special treatment for video games, but I also will not shed any tears to see Gamestop go away.

OldArmyBrent said:

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If someone is willing to buy a used game, doesn't that give the seller money to go spend toward a new game? So isn't the developer benefitting from the sale of a used game indirectly?

To say an author doesn't spend as much time as a game developer is uninformed at best. Plenty of authors spends years and years on books. Sure, some spend less, but some video games are rushed to market too. Wasn't ET rushed to market and the developer buried the remaining copies because it was so bad?

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Not really. Typically what happens is customer sells a used game to Gamestop for a few dollars. Then the customer looks to buy a new game on the same visit, and of course Gamestop steers them to the "used" copies of the game they are looking for.

As for authors versus game developers, time is not really the issue. Cost of production is the difference. $60 video games cost anywhere from $40 million to $100 million to develop by teams of 100+ people, not counting marketing budget, which can easily double that number. Pretty sure authors aren't spending that kinda money to write a book and bring it to market.