MW03 said:

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MW03 said:

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I remember when it was Funcoland and the best thing in the world was my mom letting me run to grab a price sheet. Scour that thing while she was shopping. Glorious.

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Found one online

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$49.99 for previously played Mega Man X3.
Ain't nobody gonna pay $50 for a "used" game.

aggieforester05 said:

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mugwurt said:

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As a video game developer for 20 years, i say good riddance. Gamestop's entire business model is extremely anti-developer, i.e. aggressively selling used copies of games within a week of release. Gamestop makes huge margins on used game sales, while the developer sees zero dollars.

Games shifting to predominantly digital distribution was an inevitable outcome. It is more convenient for consumers, and it is a big plus for game developers, especially small-medium sized independent developers who don't have the marketing budget to buy shelf space in brick and mortar stores.

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Hopefully if that's true, prices will start to come down to earth if you eliminate the used market. Almost every new game starts at $60 now and very few live up to that value.

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I'll believe that when I see it.

Quote:

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Gamestop says "you can buy this 'used' copy for $5 less" ($55 instead of $60).

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Where did Gamestop get that used copy? Did they steal it? No, they PAID for it, by buying it back from someone who paid full price for it in the first place. What monetary incentive does GS have for selling the used copy? If your company is indeed losing money because they're selling too many used copies, why don't you give them a spiff for selling new copies, or a bonus for reaching a level of new copies? Also, if one of my distributors is doing something I don't like, I'm yanking their distributorship. Why doesn't your company end their relationship with GS if they are indeed doing something you don't like? My guess is that you won't do that because the front end new sales are too good.

You keep assuming that the used game buyer would buy new instead of used if used wasn't an option. One of my points (among others) is that he may not, or if he does, it may not be at your $60 (your example) price point. The possible reason you can sell you games for that amount is because there IS a used market. If people know they can't sell their games (or cars, or whatever) they won't pay what they do now for them.

I understand your argument -- that your new game is competing against the same game, only used. But I don't think you understand my point that it is the same economic issue across most industries with only time differences. Car OEMs have the same issues, only instead of weeks and months, its years. They factor new vs. used decisions into their prices and the dealers do the same in the way they sell cars. Go look at the used truck market right now -- they have somewhat of the opposite problem you have. People buy new trucks because one and two year old trucks aren't priced low enough to be worth buying with 10, 20, 30K (etc.) miles on them. It becomes a factor in trade in values. That's more of a dealer issue than the OEM, but its economics at work. Go ask AOC to explain further!

If you don't want to play that game, start selling services like I do!

91AggieLawyer said:

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If you don't want to play that game, start selling services like I do!

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That is what the games industry is shifting towards, Games as a Service.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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The Fife said:

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If all of this were on a Wii-U it wouldn't have been an issue, they handled regular Wii differently.

Something similar happened when our launch day xBox 360 crapped out and lots of older delisted stuff went away. I could probably pull the hard drive and get at it somehow if I wanted to retrieve everything though.

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FWIW, you can transfer your entire Wii data (games, saves, etc.) into a Wii U, if you have one.

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I do have one, but the Wii crapped out first. When you turn it on it has the startup screen/press A to continue and when you do that... nothing. If there's a way to restore it, seriously I'm all ears here. I googled for a bit after it happened but didn't find anything. It just happened seemingly at random, it's like something became corrupted.

Earthbound... $25!

I still have a bunch of SNES and Genesis game dust covers that came from Funcoland or Babbage's at Post Oak Mall. I also picked up a 32X there for $15 around 1998.

I actually had that happen to me, I think. Plus, when it did work, it would crap out during random games. That's when I decided to get the Wii U.

As I recall, I just tried a few methods I saw online, that involved unplugging it for a certain amount of time, to get to the menu again.

mugwurt said:

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91AggieLawyer said:

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Don't assume that those left without a chance to buy a used copy of your game will opt for a new copy. They may not buy one at all or might buy something else.

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Used sales on games that are not brand new is not really an issue, and doesn't substantially affect the developer's bottom line/sales.

When it comes to new games, keeping in mind that games make the vast majority of sales in the first month after release, the most common use case is customers go into the store looking for a specific new game, and Gamestop says "you can buy this 'used' copy for $5 less" ($55 instead of $60). Of course, the customer is going to say "sure". I don't blame customers for wanting to pay less. But the vast majority of cases is the customer was going to buy the new game anyways, but instead of the developer making money on their work, Gamestop makes huge profits for doing nothing.

I am not arguing for some sort of special treatment for video games, but I also will not shed any tears to see Gamestop go away.

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I completely disagree.

Gamestop had RDR2 for $5-10 less than new when I got it a few weeks after release. I opted to spend the extra $10 for a new copy.

Now if it had been $30 vs $60 I'd have sprung for the used copy.

I DID buy COD WW2 used for $10 instead of $50.

91AggieLawyer said:

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Quote:

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Gamestop says "you can buy this 'used' copy for $5 less" ($55 instead of $60).

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What monetary incentive does GS have for selling the used copy?

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Their cost on the used game is much lower.

I'm not buying used copies of brand new games at a $5 discount. At that point I'm spending the full amount for a brand new copy. I do appreciate the time and effort the developers spent on the game and have no problem paying full price.

And when I tire of one of my physical copies of a game, I'll take that game to GameStop, trade it in for store credit, and then oftentimes stockpile that store credit to use towards a brand new game that I know it's coming out in the near future. Which is exactly what I'm doing for The Division 2.

Hardware manufacturers starting to move to all-digital.

https://www.windowscentral.com/xbox-one-s-all-digital-release-date

Redstone posts on the nerdery!?

Redstone said:

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Boomers and Gen X will keep physical in business for a while yet. I only play Tetris (Gameboy) and MarioKart wii (not really much after they disabled online).

Stopped going to GS after I realized Mario titles are not really "discounted" (still like Mario tennis)

I like physical media (just bought Mandy DVD and Rival Sons CDs) and "download only" people / companies can get bent because I'm not changing

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I could be wrong but I think it's the opposite. Any boomers and Gen X'er s I know that game only do digital and the younger crowds do more physical.

Why?

- Olds have more money and don't mind as much paying full price on digital.
- We are much busier and buying digital is one less trip we have to make somewhere.
- Young's have less money and the whole reason GS exists is because it's supposed to be cheaper after factoring trade ins and used.
- In previous discussions on this, it was explained to me that hardcore gamers (typically younger gamers) prefer physical because they like to haul around their own equipment to tournaments and elsewhere.

mugwurt said:

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exp said:

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What's this obsession with making sure developers get money? Do you have the same issue with used car sales???

Let economics work. If the game is great, fewer people will sell it onto the used market. ANY product on Earth can be bought and sold used.

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Not true. When is the last time you bought a new movie that just came out in the Box Office and sold it within a week of release?

And you will have to forgive me if after 2-3 years of developing a game, I actually would like to make a little money off that work, instead of Gamestop.

That being said, your argument is a driving factor behind the move to Games as a Service, and digital distribution, and why you will continue to see fewer narrative-based, single player games being developed.

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What makes a game different than any other product. Most products can be resold without the original manufacturer getting a cut.

price dipped below $9 this morning, the lowest its been since 2004.

I'd imagine Amazon and Best Buy taking trade-ins and selling used games have hurt GameStop more than digital.

The difference is the time frame of the resale and the quality of the used product relative to a new product. A used game is identical to a new game if you're not an OCD collector type. The period of resale on a game can be as short as the same day as release, whereas with a movie or TV show it takes months and even then the majority of their revenues do not come from sales of physical copies of the product.

Comparing the used market of a video game to the used market of a physical object is ridiculous. A washing machine contains more value as a new product than as a used product. You can buy a used washing machine, but you don't know the full condition of the machine so you get more peace of mind by buying a new product with a warranty.

A video game is a digital product in physical form. It is more comparable to a TV show or movie, but with a TV show or a movie they have an exclusive window where the production company gets paid back if the content is consumed under legal means.


The closest analogue to a video game is a book, but with a book the upfront cost of creating the content pales in comparison to the up front cost of making even the simplest of games.

The nature of this secondary market is one of the reasons why you're seeing more and more games like Anthem, Destiny or Division instead of single player narrative based games. And that sucks.

hph6203 said:

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The difference is the time frame of the resale and the quality of the used product relative to a new product. A used game is identical to a new game if you're not an OCD collector type. The period of resale on a game can be as short as the same day as release, whereas with a movie or TV show it takes months and even then the majority of their revenues do not come from sales of physical copies of the product.

Comparing the used market of a video game to the used market of a physical object is ridiculous. A washing machine contains more value as a new product than as a used product. You can buy a used washing machine, but you don't know the full condition of the machine so you get more peace of mind by buying a new product with a warranty.

A video game is a digital product in physical form. It is more comparable to a TV show or movie, but with a TV show or a movie they have an exclusive window where the production company gets paid back if the content is consumed under legal means.


The closest analogue to a video game is a book, but with a book the upfront cost of creating the content pales in comparison to the up front cost of making even the simplest of games.

The nature of this secondary market is one of the reasons why you're seeing more and more games like Anthem, Destiny or Division instead of single player narrative based games. And that sucks.

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True, but books are also published/produced at a much faster rate and sell for at least half the cost of a video game. About 1 million new books are published each year with the bulk of those being self published. Traditionally published books account for about 300K-400K new titles each year. So while a video game developer may spend a ton of money on one game, a book publisher is spending also spending a large amount to get all their titles to market.

tv1113 said:

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Redstone posts on the nerdery!?

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He was posting on The Nerdery back before the merger when it was still called Tech TV-ery.

Yeah, that's a tough business too, but the risks are spread over a larger number of titles. With a company like EA or Ubisoft. If they have an absolute flop that they don't come close to recouping their investment on or worse a game they don't even deliver to market, it's going to cause way more harm to their business than if something similar happens in the book publication business. You're also talking about an environment where there's a roadblock to purchase (a console) where with a book any person that can read the language in which the book is written is a potential customer, maybe not a likely one, but a possibility.

I also assume that the secondary market for video games is a little more robust near the release of a game than it is for a book, but that's just an assumption. Even with a book "new" carries some more value to the reader than "new" carries with a video game. Once the disc is in the console the experience is identical between used and new, not as much with a book.

hph6203 said:

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The difference is the time frame of the resale and the quality of the used product relative to a new product. A used game is identical to a new game if you're not an OCD collector type. The period of resale on a game can be as short as the same day as release, whereas with a movie or TV show it takes months and even then the majority of their revenues do not come from sales of physical copies of the product.

Comparing the used market of a video game to the used market of a physical object is ridiculous. A washing machine contains more value as a new product than as a used product. You can buy a used washing machine, but you don't know the full condition of the machine so you get more peace of mind by buying a new product with a warranty.

A video game is a digital product in physical form. It is more comparable to a TV show or movie, but with a TV show or a movie they have an exclusive window where the production company gets paid back if the content is consumed under legal means.


The closest analogue to a video game is a book, but with a book the upfront cost of creating the content pales in comparison to the up front cost of making even the simplest of games.

The nature of this secondary market is one of the reasons why you're seeing more and more games like Anthem, Destiny or Division instead of single player narrative based games. And that sucks.

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A better comparison would be selling a used smartphone after a few months. This is not uncommon and the phone manufacturer gets nothing. A chip developer does not get piece of the resale either and they often spend years in development as well.

tv1113 said:

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Most gamers prefer physical copies? I'm not so sure that is accurate anymore but I could be wrong. I'm never buying a disk again if I can help it.

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Same. I haven't bought a disc in years.

I buy single player games mostly physical (to resell later) and multiplayer games digital for ease of switching.

One thing I didn't realize with buying digital is that I could download the game to multiple systems (PS4) and play them with my kids (rather than having to own multiple copies of the disk).

I remember when I was in college ('12), Hastings had some bananas deals on used games so I would load up. They would have 40% off of used games and the prices were generally about 20% less than the new price of the game. Many of these sales were online only and Hastings' inventory was literally every store they had. The stores would ship games direct to your mailing address. Gamestop would sometimes run similar sales like B2G1 on used games that was often worth it, but buying a used game just doesn't seem to be worth it anymore because the prices are jacked up so much.

Of course, back in those days, I would turn around and sell those games on EBay. Ebay seems to be the way to go for used games now, but most new games are $30 within 2-3 months now probably due to oversaturation of the market, so there also isn't really a need to go the used route with the steep price drops.