Z8 was almost enough to get me to sell my D850 but I think I'll keep waiting. Image quality wise there's not really a reason for me to get rid of it. Only thing I really want is better autofocus for wildlife.

The Z6 and Z7 are basically the same camera as the Z6II and Z7II, except the newer ones have a better processor for better buffer and better autofocus. The newer ones also have an additional memory card slot.

For landscape, there is functionally no reason to get the newer one over the older one.

For sports, the D500 or other DSLRs would be significantly better than the Z6 or Z7 (either generation.) The focus tracking and lack of blackout would be so much better on those later generations of DSLR.

For field sports (especially when well lit), the D500 would be your best bet. For indoor sports, D850, D4, D4s, D5 or D6 would be your best bet, depending on your budget.

D850 is definitely the best all-around DSLR ever made by anyone.

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The mirrorless come with in body image stabilization which will help with some of what you mentioned

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The help it can provide is marginal at best, because the sensor physically can't move that much to avoid shakes.

That said, I got some really sharp photos with my 14-24 hand held in low light at 1/10th of a second with my Z9. But the reason Nikon is still putting significant amounts of image stabilization into their Z lenses is because the in-camera stabilization isn't physically possible to be super great.

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The electronic viewfinders and option to show the scene in the viewfinder as it's going to take is nice.

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This is absolutely tremendous.

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The d850 and d500 will have the edge over the z6ii and z7ii in the autofocus department. The mirrorless autofocus isn't bad, it's just not quite as fast for fast moving subjects.

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Yeah, absolutely, but the Z9 and Z8 are better than the DSLRs. There is a massive step up from Z7ii to Z8.

I can't wait for a crop-sensor like the D500. I will probably do Z6iii (whenever it comes out), D500 mirrorless replacement whenever it comes out and Z9 as my main 3-body system.

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The z6ii performs very well in low light situations, the z7ii has 45MP and is a landscape king.

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The necessity for massive MP is WAY, WAY, WAY overstated, especially for amateurs. Even if you are printing large prints. I had a 30x40 print hanging in a national museum in 2007 from a 6.3MP Canon 10D with Tamron 28-75mm lens. I had several dozen billboards shot with the Canon 1DM3 (10MP.) The Z6/Z6ii's sensor is WAY more than enough for nearly everyone.

One of the reasons I have held onto my Nikon D4 bodies so long, the 16MP sensor is basically perfect for everything. Great in low light, incredible shadow detail, and doesn't choke up your computer/memory. I've printed massive prints from that camera. The 24MP of cameras like the Z6/II are basically perfect for pretty much everyone and there really isn't much of a reason to upgrade to the Z7. I use both on a daily basis as well as the Z9.

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For the lenses you mentioned, I rented a Tamron 150-600 G2 and took it to Yellowstone and got some really great shots. So I can say that will work for your needs.

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Nikon is coming out with a 180-600mm 5.6-6.3 lens for the mirrorless system that would be what I would run with. It's a little over $1500. I am probably going to buy that just for hiking and stuff with my son. Nikon also has a more expensive 100-400, that is part of the S-line (Professional) but I think the value increase there for most users isn't worth the extra $1k.


If you are doing landscapes, getting the 14-24mm is the top of the line, but Nikon also made a 16-35mm f4 lens that was very good, that you could get very cheap now ($400-600 depending on condition)

For Nikon mirrorless, there is again the 14-24 2.8 but also a 14-30 f4 for around $1k. I will likely get the 14-30 unless I get a big landscape assignment.

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Mirrorless does seem to be the way the market is moving, but DSLR still provide a lot of value.

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I don't think any manufacturer is going to make any more DSLR lenses. Nikon last released a consumer-level DSLR over 5 years ago and the newest pro or prosumer DSLRs were the D6 and D780 (both released pre-COVID in 2020. Nikon has only released one F-mount lens since 2018 and none since COVID started.


You can get tremendous value out of DSLRs for now. If it is something that you want to get some good things now, and aren't sure what you will do with it long term, DSLR might be the way to go, because you get more bang for your buck.

If you go on DXO mark and compare the DSLRs from 10 years ago to the current mirrorless ones, there are some marginal improvements in color depth, but nothing really ground breaking overall.



BTW: How do you like that 20mm 1.8? Have you used it much yet? I am pretty interested in that one.

MBAR said:

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Z8 was almost enough to get me to sell my D850 but I think I'll keep waiting. Image quality wise there's not really a reason for me to get rid of it. Only thing I really want is better autofocus for wildlife.

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Let me tell you, the Z8/Z9 brings the mirrorless there. That D850 will never disappoint you, but the Z8 is definitely an upgrade. Everything before the Z8 couldn't compare to the D850 in every day usage.

Wait for a used one and go for it.

After reading a bunch of articles & reviews, the thing that I struggle with right now in the mirrorless debate is that it is my understanding that the Z7 II isnt really an upgrade over the D850. As an all-around body, the 2 each have their plusses and minuses when comparing. You have to step up to the Z8 which is a considerable increase in cost in order to upgrade over the D850. If that is a fair assessment, then the D850 is a much better value play, especially since I already have DX lenses. And even though the future is mirrorless, getting a Z7 II or Z6 II now isnt "future proofing" since it is no better than the D850 as an all arounder.

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After reading a bunch of articles & reviews, the thing that I struggle with right now in the mirrorless debate is that it is my understanding that the Z7 II isnt really an upgrade over the D850. As an all-around body, the 2 each have their plusses and minuses when comparing.

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I think that is fair. The D850 has better autofocus. The Z6/Z7 are easier to use.

I also wouldn't recommend the Z7/II over the Z6 for pretty much anyone.

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You have to step up to the Z8 which is a considerable increase in cost in order to upgrade over the D850.

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Yeah, I think the Z8 is better in just about every way. However, the sensor quality over the last 6 years across all brands is fairly stagnant. All sensors (except probably Canon, because they suck) are probably marginally, if at all, better than they were a half decade ago.

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If that is a fair assessment, then the D850 is a much better value play, especially since I already have DX lenses.

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DX lenses are crop lenses. Don't make decisions about a 45MP camera based on crop lenses that you absolutely shouldn't attach to your high end camera. Sell those things and add it to your budget. There is no reason to keep old DX lenses if you are going full frame.

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And even though the future is mirrorless, getting a Z7 II or Z6 II now isnt "future proofing" since it is no better than the D850 as an all arounder.

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It is very much future proofing. The D850 was released in the summer of 2017. At some point, Nikon will stop making parts for their DSLRs and you won't be able to fix it. Spending 2500-3000 on a 6yo camera is not a smart decision, when you can spend the same amount (or less) and get the newest comparable camera. You can also save money initially by buying F-mount lenses for the mirrorless and slowly upgrade them to the mirrorless version.

That's basically what I have done until now. I am using my F-mount lenses on my Z9.

EF 14-24 2.8 on Z9, handheld at 1/20th of a second



I've had the Z6 since 2020. It wasn't until getting the Z9 that I was ready to go all in on the mirrorless. But the mirrorless is absolutely easily to use than DSLRs. And, it is blatantly clear that Nikon no longer intends to make cameras or lenses for the DSLRs and have invested 100% into mirrorless.

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I also wouldn't recommend the Z7/II over the Z6 for pretty much anyone.

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Interesting. Do you have time to expand on that a little?

ATL Aggie said:

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I also wouldn't recommend the Z7/II over the Z6 for pretty much anyone.

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Interesting. Do you have time to expand on that a little?

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They are essentially the same camera. One has a 24MP sensor and the other a 45MP sensor.

The Z7 does have more focus points, but in the Z6, you have full coverage side to side/top to bottom.

The Z6 can shoot more FPS, which is better for sports that your kids are doing. The Z6 has better autofocus in low-light. The Z6 video is full frame, but it is cropped in the Z7.

I very, very few people need or utilize the difference in 24MP and 45MP. If you need to crop a ton, you might get some marginal advantage. But there is no real benefit in making prints with the 45 vs 24 unless you want to go up to a print with e loupe and peep for differences. It's just going to take up more hard drive space. Also, the smaller MP camera generally has better low-light noise handling.

Interesting, thanks. I was thinking more megapixels so that I could crop deeper for wildlife, but you have given me something to think about.

ATL Aggie said:

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Interesting, thanks. I was thinking more megapixels so that I could crop deeper for wildlife, but you have given me something to think about.

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I dont know this guy, but he goes into why more isn't necessarily better.

Pixel dimensions of each:

Z6: 6048 x 4024
Z7: 8256 x 5504

Your lenses:

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I currently have a D7000, 16-80 f2.8-4, Tamron 28-75 f2.8, 70-200 f/4. (I am kicking myself for selling a 70-200 f2.8 in favor of the f/4 to lighten the load.)

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And you are thinking the D850 ($2800) and Tamron 150-600 ($1400) so safe to say you have a budget of $4000?

I might take this approach:


Sell the 16-80. If you like the 28-75, keep it. Keep the 70-200.


Nikon D500: $700
https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/nikon-d500/sku-1746373

For field sports and wildlife, this is an amazing camera. Great at iso 3200, not as great at 6400, but I have published photos with it at 6400 and Adobe is better at handling noise now than before. Coming from a D7000, you will love the auto focus and it does 10fps. Same autofocus as the D850.

Nikon 200-500 f/5.6: $700
https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/nikon-af-s-nikkor-200-500mm-f-5-6e-ed-vr/sku-2029826

This is a great lens. Again, perfect for daytime field sports and wildlife.

I know most non-professionals don't want to hear this, but I would also consider getting a second body: Z6 or Z6ii. This will be your everyday body and landscape body. The D500 CAN do landscapes, but it has a crop sensor, so you will be fighting the 1.5x crop factor. BUT, for field sports and wildlife, that 1.5x makes your 200-500 effectively a 300-750mm lens.



Nikon Z6ii: $1350
https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/nikon-z6-ii/sku-2040173

OR

Nikon Z6: $950
https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/nikon-z6/sku-1939313

Nikon 14-30: $915
https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/nikon-nikkor-z-14-30mm-f-4-s/sku-2029784

If you want a true landscape lens, this is the way to go for the price.

I don't know if the Tamron 28-75 will work on the Z bodies, but I think it will. If it won't this is the budget replacement (F4 instead of 2.8)
Nikon 24-70 f4: $300
https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/nikon-nikkor-z-24-70mm-f-4-s/sku-2061772

Step up is a Nikon 28-75 f2.8 (upgraded tamron design, made by Nikon)

Nikon 28-75 2.8: $830
https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/nikon-nikkor-z-28-75mm-f-2-8-vr/sku-1656308

Nikon also makes a 24-120 f4 for the Z mount that I have, but haven't tested. I liked my 24-120 for my F mount, but not as much as I liked my Canon 24-105 f4 that I sold to Dubi. Overall, my F-mount 24-120 worked flawlessly for a decade.


D500: $700
200-500: $700
Z6ii: $1350
14-30: $915
24-70 f4: $300

That kit would be $3965.

Add a FTZ adapter (to put the 70-200 on the Z) $150
https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/nikon-ftz-mount-adapter/sku-2059803

That would be a super badass kit for Yellowstone or Lacrosse. You'd have your ultra long lens for wildlife and your ultrawide for landscapes and other random things. You can sell off the DX ultrawide and the 28-75 and keep the 70-200 for the intermediate range things.

The Z lenses will not work on the D500, but the F-mount lenses (200-500) will work on the Z with the adapter. They work well on the Z-mount.

Also consider that Nikon has just released the Z-mount 180-600mm f/5.6-6.3, which is their upgrade to the F-mount 200-500 that I recommend. The price on that will be $1600, so if you are on a budget, I think it still makes sense to get the f-mount, especially if you want to go the route with the D500, which I think would be smart for sports.

Before I read your latest post I was honing into the following kit:

Z6 II - $1350
24-120 - $1100 (cant find it used)
80-400 w/ ztf, $900 + 200 (I am choosing this over the 200-500 for size/weight considerations)
Total: $3550

Or, in lieu of the 24-120 I could keep the 70-200 and add the 24-70 as you suggested. Total: $2750

While I think adding a D500 gives the best of both worlds at a great value, I am not sure I want to try to explain to the wife why I need 2 bodies.

I dont think I need a dedicated landscape lens, the 24-120 probably works for my needs.

Of course, now that I type this I begin to wonder if I would be better off with:

D500 - $800
16-80 - $0
70-200 - $0
80-400 - $900
Total: $1700

Or, if I swap for the D850 - $2400

I am suffering from paralysis from analysis.

I would absolutely get the 200-500 all day long. I think it is the upgrade/replacement there, is newer and better all-around.

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Or, in lieu of the 24-120 I could keep the 70-200 and add the 24-70 as you suggested.

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If it is the Nikon 70-200 f/4, I would do that. That 24-70 f4 is small, lightweight and does a good job.

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I dont think I need a dedicated landscape lens, the 24-120 probably works for my needs.

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Another option for landscape stuff would be get that 24-70 f4 for ~300, then get a Z-mount Rokinon 14mm 2.8 for landscape stuff. It will be a manual focus prime lens, but you likely stop it down anyway for landscape stuff. I used to buy those when I was doing remote work. Solid, cheap little lenses that fill the gap if you don't think you need that 14-30, but you still get that ultra wide look from time to time.

I would get the Z6 over the D850 and save the money. It won't be as good for sports, but that D500 is a pretty cheap stopgap if you want it. And the Z6+D500 is cheaper than the D850.

Nothing really to add outside of that 200-500 is a freaking awesome lens for the money. I've gotten some terrific shots with it on my D750, I'm sure paired with the Z6 it's going to be a great combination.

Maximus_Meridius said:

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Nothing really to add outside of that 200-500 is a freaking awesome lens for the money. I've gotten some terrific shots with it on my D750, I'm sure paired with the Z6 it's going to be a great combination.

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I am sure it is, I just dont know if I want to haul it around Yellowstone. I am sure I would appreciate the longer reach, but the 80-400 is 30% lighter.

ATL Aggie said:

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Maximus_Meridius said:

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Nothing really to add outside of that 200-500 is a freaking awesome lens for the money. I've gotten some terrific shots with it on my D750, I'm sure paired with the Z6 it's going to be a great combination.

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I am sure it is, I just dont know if I want to haul it around Yellowstone. I am sure I would appreciate the longer reach, but the 80-400 is 30% lighter.

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It is lighter because the glass isn't as good.

Finally made a decision, I appreciate the advice. Z6 II, 24-70 f/4, 200-500 f/5.6, and FTZ II are all on the way. I also am getting a D7500 for practically nothing from a friend. It doesnt have the AF performance of the D500, but I couldnt pass it up. Now I just need to decide if I want to spend more on a landscape lens or make due with the 24-70.

ATL Aggie said:

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Finally made a decision, I appreciate the advice. Z6 II, 24-70 f/4, 200-500 f/5.6, and FTZ II are all on the way. I also am getting a D7500 for practically nothing from a friend. It doesnt have the AF performance of the D500, but I couldnt pass it up. Now I just need to decide if I want to spend more on a landscape lens or make due with the 24-70.

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Good choices. I think you will be happy. D7500 is a solid little camera. I wouldn't get a landscape lens for that, though. Just use it with the 70-200 and 200-500.

Guitarsoup said:

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ATL Aggie said:

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Finally made a decision, I appreciate the advice. Z6 II, 24-70 f/4, 200-500 f/5.6, and FTZ II are all on the way. I also am getting a D7500 for practically nothing from a friend. It doesnt have the AF performance of the D500, but I couldnt pass it up. Now I just need to decide if I want to spend more on a landscape lens or make due with the 24-70.

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Good choices. I think you will be happy. D7500 is a solid little camera. I wouldn't get a landscape lens for that, though. Just use it with the 70-200 and 200-500.

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What I meant was I am still trying to decide if I should get a landscape lens for the Z6 II or just use the 24-70. I will probably stop where I am at and make due with the 24-70.

Make due for now, decide how it is limiting you later. Or grab that manual focus chinese 14mm one just for fun.

the Samyang/Rokinon 14mm is damn good if they make it for Z mount. Great lens for landscape/astro

MBAR said:

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the Samyang/Rokinon 14mm is damn good if they make it for Z mount. Great lens for landscape/astro

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They do make it.

https://amzn.to/3QbtEDd

Would that 200-500 be a good lens for something like the eclipse?

Also, what is everyone using for cloud storage these days?

Wasabi getting a lot of hype, but I'd prefer a big boy that I can count on to be around. See lots of good feedback on Backblaze too.

FTAG 2000 said:

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Also, what is everyone using for cloud storage these days?

Wasabi getting a lot of hype, but I'd prefer a big boy that I can count on to be around. See lots of good feedback on Backblaze too.

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I use Smugmug and have almost two million jpegs on there.

Referral link with small discount for each of us.

https://secure.smugmug.com/signup?Coupon=tPjOHxdnUbCCI

I've been with Smugmug since 2005 and it gets a little better each year.

With the phone app, you can set up a gallery to automatically backup all your phone photos and videos, too.

FTAG 2000 said:

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Would that 200-500 be a good lens for something like the eclipse?

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I've never shot an eclipse, so I don't really know. But longer focal length = more betterer when the moon is involved. And you are going to have to WAY stop down/use neutral density filters, so a 5.6 vs 2.8 doesn't really matter.

Best advice I can give you is to find a really interesting foreground object that you can use to frame the eclipse. Don't just shoot the moon in the sky with no context.

Guitarsoup said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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Also, what is everyone using for cloud storage these days?

Wasabi getting a lot of hype, but I'd prefer a big boy that I can count on to be around. See lots of good feedback on Backblaze too.

---

I use Smugmug and have almost two million jpegs on there.

Referral link with small discount for each of us.

https://secure.smugmug.com/signup?Coupon=tPjOHxdnUbCCI

I've been with Smugmug since 2005 and it gets a little better each year.

With the phone app, you can set up a gallery to automatically backup all your phone photos and videos, too.

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Thanks.

How is photo sharing there? Think wanting to share with grandparents who are technically challenged.

FTAG 2000 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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Also, what is everyone using for cloud storage these days?

Wasabi getting a lot of hype, but I'd prefer a big boy that I can count on to be around. See lots of good feedback on Backblaze too.

---

I use Smugmug and have almost two million jpegs on there.

Referral link with small discount for each of us.

https://secure.smugmug.com/signup?Coupon=tPjOHxdnUbCCI

I've been with Smugmug since 2005 and it gets a little better each year.

With the phone app, you can set up a gallery to automatically backup all your phone photos and videos, too.

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Thanks.

How is photo sharing there? Think wanting to share with grandparents who are technically challenged.

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Super easy. For instance, here is an unlisted gallery that just has a few pictures that I took when I got a new camera years ago.

https://www.thomasgcampbell.com/Campbell/Clara-and-Theo-at-the-Park/n-3PBmZ3/

Galleries can be private (only you), Unlisted (only with a link) or public.

You'll see when you click on the gallery that there are options to buy, download all, download pics individually, play a slideshow, etc. You can also click on your phone, should have similar buttons. Download all usually creates a zip file.

There are a lot of various ways to change galleries, but I keep mine pretty basic.

What brands of camera bags/backpacks are you pros using these days? I've only used Lowepro and haven't had any issues, except I'm outgrowing them. It might be nice to try something different for a change. I've looked at Tough Traveler and Domke because they're made in the U.S., but they look like Jan Sport school backpacks from the 80's and seem limited in gear storage options.

marcel ledbetter said:

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What brands of camera bags/backpacks are you pros using these days? I've only used Lowepro and haven't had any issues, except I'm outgrowing them. It might be nice to try something different for a change. I've looked at Tough Traveler and Domke because they're made in the U.S., but they look like Jan Sport school backpacks from the 80's and seem limited in gear storage options.

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I'm 100% Think Tank

Thanks! From reading up above, it sounds as if the Rokinon lenses are good glass for the money? I'm using an m 4/3 camera and their lenses in that system are pretty affordable.

marcel ledbetter said:

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Thanks! From reading up above, it sounds as if the Rokinon lenses are good glass for the money? I'm using an m 4/3 camera and their lenses in that system are pretty affordable.

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They are all manual focus. I only get the 14mm one for remotes/landscapes because basically everything is in focus

marcel ledbetter said:

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What brands of camera bags/backpacks are you pros using these days? I've only used Lowepro and haven't had any issues, except I'm outgrowing them. It might be nice to try something different for a change. I've looked at Tough Traveler and Domke because they're made in the U.S., but they look like Jan Sport school backpacks from the 80's and seem limited in gear storage options.

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Think Tank.

I used to be a Lowepro guy but over time their material degrades and flakes off.

Had to take a camera to get cleaned because the little black fabric flaked off all over the bag and its contents.

Lowepro shrugged it off when I contacted them, thanks for the crappy customer service.

Landscapes are what I was thinking about getting one for. Thanks again!

I've heard of similar quality control issues with their newer gear. It's a shame because they were a good company. Earlier this spring, I found a brand new Lowepro Stealth Reporter camera bag in a thrift store for $12. It's already getting a little small but the quality of it seems good. It's probably over a decade old, but never used. Still had the tags!

I have a 135mm Rokinon and I've had the 14mm in the past. Both were excellent lenses. The 135 is exceptional as its a F2.0 and very sharp even wide open but it is manual focus. I've used it for landscape and astro and I've loved it.