Cartographer said:

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Argument that the future value of the picks is worth more than the asset obtained. I'm not sure on this one, so I'll go with Nick's judgement.

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My recollection was most really liked WAJ but were concerned about packaging so many picks when the team had so many perceived holes. But we were gonna get WAJ years. It wasn't a "trade the future for the present" argument.

Nick has certainly earned some respect but no GM is perfect. Trading a 2nd (which if you think Nick is good at is job is very valuable) is lot to pay for a 1-year rental of an oft-disgruntled WR.

I hope it works out but my guess is we make it about as far as I think we would have made it without him (I'm guessing AFC championship game) and then he's gone.

JCA1 said:

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Cartographer said:

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Argument that the future value of the picks is worth more than the asset obtained. I'm not sure on this one, so I'll go with Nick's judgement.

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My recollection was most really liked WAJ but were concerned about packaging so many picks when the team had so many perceived holes. But we were gonna get WAJ years. It wasn't a "trade the future for the present" argument.

Nick has certainly earned some respect but no GM is perfect. Trading a 2nd (which if you think Nick is good at is job is very valuable) is lot to pay for a 1-year rental of an oft-disgruntled WR.

I hope it works out but my guess is we make it about as far as I think we would have made it without him (I'm guessing AFC championship game) and then he's gone.

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It isn't necessarily a 1 year rental.

I know. We're all just giving our best guesses/playing the odds. My gut says the odds are, he doesn't significantly alter the course of the season and we aren't able to resign him. YMMV. That's what this board is for.

Texan_Aggie said:

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Do we think the team is better in 2024 with Diggs or without Diggs?

I think we're overcomplicating this.

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I think we'll probably be better, but not significantly better (maybe a win or 2 more in the regular season but we'll go about as far in the playoffs as we would have gone without him). I also think we'll get 1 sideline blowup and a couple cryptic social media posts from him during the season.

But this does provide an opportunity for people to give their predictions. I suspect most think we would have went further this year even without Diggs just because of CJ's continued improvement, etc. My guess is that, even without Diggs, we would have made the AFC Championship game but lose there. If we get to the Super Bowl and Diggs is a bigtime contributor, I clearly misread the trade. What say you? What is your prediction for the team without Diggs and has that changed? What is necessary for you to say the trade was good or bad?

And as for the overcomplicated part, even if we're better, that can be the sole arbiter of whether it was the right move. I mean, we could trade our first round picks for the next 5 years so we can be better this year. Doesn't mean that's the right move.

We can be more talented and and have a cancer in the locker room causing issues at the same time.

TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

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By going through with this trade, our WR room went from solid with question marks to arguably best in the league. And all it really cost was to move back from the first round to second round while picking up some additional late round ammo. We are putting as many pieces around our rookie contract QB as we possibly can, which I think is what we should be doing. Next year I think we will probably only keep one of Diggs and Nico, but that should be fine because CJ will have another year of experience under his belt to offset the downgrade at receiver. For now, though, we had the chance to swing big and we did. Having Diggs out there is just going to open up that much more room for everyone else to operate, similar to adding an elite 3 point shooter to a basketball team. Maybe he has an underwhelming year or maybe he won't, but the attention he's going to garner is going to help out in ways that aren't as obvious on the stat sheet and I think that alone will make this trade worth it.

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So make it concrete. I know we can't predict injuries, etc., but what would you project for this season without him and now with him. Let's have something objective to judge it by.

You're asking for a simple and concrete answer to a broad question, which isn't really reasonable, but I'll take a crack at it (assuming a relatively healthy season from the offense all around, which in all likelihood won't happen):

Expectations without Diggs

• CJ finishes the year Top 10 in Passing Yards and most efficiency stats
• Texans offense finish with a scoring percentage (aka percentage of drives ending in points) of 40% or higher (we finished 37.2% in 2023 for reference, 13th in the league)
• Third Down Conversion Percentage over 40% (37.9% in 2023, 19th in the league)
• Red Zone Scoring Percentage 55% or over (54.7% last year, 16th in the league)
• Texans win at least 9 games even with the increase in schedule difficulty

Expectations with Diggs

• CJ finishes the year Top 5 in Passing Yards and most efficiency stats, and is a top 3 MVP candidate
• Texans offense finish with a scoring percentage of 43% or higher (corresponds to top 5 from 2023)
• Third Down Conversion Percentage over 43% (corresponds to top 6 from 2023)
• Red Zone Scoring Percentage over 60% (corresponds to top 10 from 2023)
• Texans win at least 10 games and win the division

cc10106 said:

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CJ's not gonna put up with the diva BS.

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I don't think it's just a CJ thing, it's DeMeco and everyone down thing. Ryans is one of those guys in the NFL who is universally respected, he's earned that. CJ and WAJ getting named captains as rookies is no fluke either. They're both leaders who perform and hold themselves to a standard. I still believe that the Ryans hire was the key to last season above even drafting CJ and WAJ, he sets the culture and has brought in guys that want to be a part of that culture. A previous coaching staff would have made this a far riskier trade IMO, could you imagine Diggs with Culley or Smith and Mills as the QB?

I know that people have reservations about Diggs but I think he's headed to a better situation than he's been in before with Minnesota and Buffalo. He also doesn't have the same pressure on his shoulders because he's going to be on the field with Collins and Dell, they'll each have different roles in this offense and CJ spreads the ball around. Going back to Ohio State he didn't just look at one guy, he sees the field and it benefits all of them.

Max Power said:

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cc10106 said:

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CJ's not gonna put up with the diva BS.

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I don't think it's just a CJ thing, it's DeMeco and everyone down thing. Ryans is one of those guys in the NFL who is universally respected, he's earned that. CJ and WAJ getting named captains as rookies is no fluke either. They're both leaders who perform and hold themselves to a standard. I still believe that the Ryans hire was the key to last season above even drafting CJ and WAJ, he sets the culture and has brought in guys that want to be a part of that culture. A previous coaching staff would have made this a far riskier trade IMO, could you imagine Diggs with Culley or Smith and Mills as the QB?

I know that people have reservations about Diggs but I think he's headed to a better situation than he's been in before with Minnesota and Buffalo. He also doesn't have the same pressure on his shoulders because he's going to be on the field with Collins and Dell, they'll each have different roles in this offense and CJ spreads the ball around. Going back to Ohio State he didn't just look at one guy, he sees the field and it benefits all of them.

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In addition to this, didn't everyone love Diggs for the first few years at Minnesota and Buffalo? I remember him and Allen always being buddies and doing things together in those early years. Same thing in Minnesota. So if we're only targeting him for a few years, and we go by his history (which everyone is focusing on the end of his tenure at both teams) then he should be amazing for those first few years on and off the field and trail off after a few years...which makes this a smart move the way we did it. Or am I missing something?

Agreed about Ryans, et al, and didn't mean to imply otherwise or minimize the importance of others. His hiring alone changed my mind about the front office and the direction of this team.

cc10106 said:

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Agreed about Ryans, et al, and didn't mean to imply otherwise or minimize the importance of others. His hiring alone changed my mind about the front office and the direction of this team.

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I didn't take it that way, and I didn't say what I did to implicate that CJ doesn't have some control over the situation either, I've just personally seen what's going on with guys like CJ and WAJ as an extension of Ryans as the leader of the team. This is all ironic considering Houston had arguably the worst culture in the NFL for years and Ryans turned that place into a positive environment.

Regarding IrishAg's statement I think there are guys in the NFL who are keenly aware that their time in the league is finite and they can tell when a good place turns south, especially if they're chasing a ring before it all comes to an end. I don't know about Minnesota, but Buffalo has had some weirdness going on and Diggs could sense that and and wanted out. But to play the other side of this, guys who perform at a high level really shouldn't sign long term contracts that make it difficult to move them. If Buffalo wasn't eating $31MM of his salary does this trade happen...not with Caserio IMO. I also don't know if Allen has any diva issues of his own considering he's been dating a fairly big named actress for a while now and is compensated handsomely to boot. We just don't know all the details behind the scenes there causing the relationship to sour.

Plenty of guys in Houston weren't problems until things were going south behind the scenes causing them to want to get out of town.

TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

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By going through with this trade, our WR room went from solid with question marks to arguably best in the league. And all it really cost was to move back from the first round to second round while picking up some additional late round ammo. We are putting as many pieces around our rookie contract QB as we possibly can, which I think is what we should be doing. Next year I think we will probably only keep one of Diggs and Nico, but that should be fine because CJ will have another year of experience under his belt to offset the downgrade at receiver. For now, though, we had the chance to swing big and we did. Having Diggs out there is just going to open up that much more room for everyone else to operate, similar to adding an elite 3 point shooter to a basketball team. Maybe he has an underwhelming year or maybe he won't, but the attention he's going to garner is going to help out in ways that aren't as obvious on the stat sheet and I think that alone will make this trade worth it.

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Not to mention that this is a super deep draft without a significant gap between the lower first round and higher-mid 2nd round guys.

Yep. Tone at the top is important, which DeMeco sets. CJ is a leader and respected as well.

If Diggs isn't on his best behavior, which I don't anticipate, I think he'll be a mid season FA a la Ed Reed.

it's funny on sportsradio about the Diggs trade

the day of the trade and the next day...everyone was ecstatic

but now several days later...folks are remembering that he had issues in both Minnesota and Buffalo

one host said...it's not if, but when an issue pops up in Houston

W said:

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it's funny on sportsradio about the Diggs trade

the day of the trade and the next day...everyone was ecstatic

but now several days later...folks are remembering that he had issues in both Minnesota and Buffalo

one host said...it's not if, but when an issue pops up in Houston

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Well, we've since learned the details of the trade. It went from an all upside team favorable/ controllable contract for the next 3 years to a one year rental.

My guess is Diggs will not be a problem at any time this year and help out the offense. Our head coach and QB the primary reasons.

So, before the draft, who is the number 1 NFL wide receiver expected to be? Jefferson has no QB, Chase has Burrow coming off an injury. Tyreek wasn't that great last year. Could Diggs actually be the top rated WR, At least for Fantasy football purposes? Or Collins or Tank?

Houston may be the first team next year to have 3 WRs drafted in most Fantasy leagues.

Texans uniforms talked a lot about "H-Town" and the "H" they've done on clothing. Let's hope it is an accent and small, I'm not a big fan.

For H-Town 🤘

The most fan-inclusive and transparent uniform redesign in @NFL history 🎥 pic.twitter.com/0UqhdJFAPR

— Houston Texans (@HoustonTexans) April 15, 2024

Texan_Aggie said:

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Texans uniforms talked a lot about "H-Town" and the "H" they've done on clothing. Let's hope it is an accent and small, I'm not a big fan.

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I'm 100 percent with you. I loathe the H logo and pray it doesn't end up on a helmet.


Lots of talk of history in that video, leads me to believe Columbia blue has to play a significant role in the change despite the leak uni we saw.


And as I've said multiple times here. Red helmets need to be the the primary helmet, without a shadow of a doubt

The talent isn't what worries me me about me Caleb. It's the attitude. He comes off a diva, me first, get my money type guy and I don't think that will translate well to the NFL.

If I'm a GM I wouldn't touch him.

I'm so glad we already have our QB prior to Caleb draft.

Haven't been keeping up with much draft coverage but Kiper (lol I know but that's who's on TV in the break room) is expecting 4 QBs on the top 5 picks.

Is that the consensus?

If so there are gonna be some pretty good players falling.

I would not even consider trading CJ for Caleb Williams plus Marvin Harrison jr. Talent without leadership, humility and the right attitude usually gets you a JFF style NFL career. Caleb May be able to adjust but the signs don't look favorable.

The best qb in the draft next week may not be one of the first 3 taken but could be McCarthy, Nix or Rattler. Or even none of the above. The odds of another CJ being there are low.

I remember some wanted to tank again for Williams instead of drafting Stroud last year which probably would have ended my time as a Texans fan.