*******The Official Houston Texans 2023: The reign of Meco thread************

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texagbeliever
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In reply to MaxPower • 9:16a, 4/5/24
MaxPower said:
Texan_Aggie said:
Wasn't our pick though. We turned a 1st into two seconds, and turned one of those seconds (which is 2025) into Diggs a 5th and a 6th.

I don't think the drop-off from late round 1 to 2 is that big, but salary wise is better.

Also, I highly doubt our picks going into the draft are where we stay. Caserio traded 8 times in last years draft. Brian Gaine traded 0 in his two years. Nick likes to wheel and deal.
Don't get this logic. It's still a pick you had that you can no longer use. Even if who you get is just an average starter, that's highly valuable when you consider how little you pay a second rounder. Also, if a late first is not a drop off then why don't teams always trade them for two seconds?
It is all situational and based on what the goal is.

Goal: Win the division, Win the Super-bowl
Timeline: immediate, but a degree of lack of desire too much for the future because foundational pieces give a solid 5 year window

What Diggs does is instantly create a nightmare for the defense.
Diggs: CB1
Nico: CB2
Tank Dell: CB3/Safety
Mixon: LB will have to pick him up
Schultz: A mismatch with a LB, so safety to cover him

Keep in mind, the Bills had to make a deal. So it is hard to think the Texans didn't come out ahead.
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JCA1
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9:27a, 4/5/24
AG
Trading for Diggs because you think your window is open makes perfect sense. But then immediately turning him into a free agent when you didn't have to really doesn't. The Texans were free to cut him if it didn't work out after a year. There's really no upside that wasn't already there except potentially getting better effort out of him. But he already had 3 years, $60 mill of motivation. And if being in a contract year is what you think is necessary to get him to buy in, then I'm suspicious of the trade and think that 2nd could have been put to better use.

If we were the Bucs a few years back with an aging Tom Brady, I get selling out for the upcoming season. I don't get that with a 2nd year QB and a window that should be a decade.



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cupcakesprinkles
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9:30a, 4/5/24
AG
My theory is that they are going to see who shows the best this year between Nico and Diggs. Then they'll keep one and let the other walk. Plus you get a motivated Diggs for this year where on paper right now we legitimately have a shot to make it to the Super Bowl.
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IrishAg
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In reply to JCA1 • 9:44a, 4/5/24
JCA1 said:
Trading for Diggs because you think your window is open makes perfect sense. But then immediately turning him into a free agent when you didn't have to really doesn't. The Texans were free to cut him if it didn't work out after a year. There's really no upside that wasn't already there except potentially getting better effort out of him. But he already had 3 years, $60 mill of motivation. And if being in a contract year is what you think is necessary to get him to buy in, then I'm suspicious of the trade and think that 2nd could have been put to better use.

If we were the Bucs a few years back with an aging Tom Brady, I get selling out for the upcoming season. I don't get that with a 2nd year QB and a window that should be a decade.

The rest of his deal was complete vaporware, there was no guaranteed money at all left so even if we want to keep him for more than 1 year we were going to have to completely redo his contract in an extension, so in reality he didn't have 3 years $60 million left. This technically changes nothing other than adjusting Diggs frame of mind. You're getting him away from thinking about the current contract and maybe extending and can he play on it, to I gotta play my best because no matter what I don't have something to fall back on next year.

As to the 2nd could have been put to a better use....how would an extra 2nd next year help us with this year to make a super bowl run? This is like us trading up for Will Anderson Jr last year and almost everyone losing their mind on why Houston would throw away what should be a top 5 pick in the next draft to get someone who wasn't "a sure thing". Nick and DeMeco were right and just about everyone else was wrong. They're playing both the short and long game at the same time better than almost anyone right now. So why shouldn't we think the still have a good handle on what the team needs

They're making moves for this year without completely destroying next year. But the key is the focus on this year. I think a lot of people are having issues because we as a fan base have been looking at the future and how can we build talent to one day contend for a super bowl for so long that we are collectively missing the point that the window is open right now. The chance to win is right now, you take it and you motivate everyone in the way you think is best to win right now.
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Texan_Aggie
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In reply to JCA1 • 9:55a, 4/5/24
AG
You don't really believe the whole "under team control for X years" thing still works, right?
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wilecoyote
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10:24a, 4/5/24
Diggs being on a 1 year prove it deal is going to make his DRAMA even WORSE imo. He was targeted more than any one on the Bills last season. He wasn't catching the balls he normally caught, so they started putting the ball in other playmakers hands. Last half of the season he was essentially the #3 receiver on the bills, and even worse in the post season.
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JCA1
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In reply to Texan_Aggie • 10:31a, 4/5/24
AG
Texan_Aggie said:
You don't really believe the whole "under team control for X years" thing still works, right?
It works for most guys. For the few it doesn't work with because they'll refuse to show up unless you give them a new deal, maybe don't trade for those guys. Those guys are seldom worth the headache.

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Ag_07
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10:35a, 4/5/24
AG
If NFL teams didn't pursue players who were divas they'd have trouble filling their rosters. Especially WRs

How long were people bltching about the the Texans needing some attitude and were tired of always signing the choir boys of the NFL?

Those better not be the same people whining about acquiring Diggs.
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Mr.Bond
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10:37a, 4/5/24
AG
Texans are gambling that this will motivate him. Plain and simple. I like it
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.


MAGA

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MaxPower
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10:39a, 4/5/24
One thing on Diggs, the WR franchise tag isn't much more than he was gonna make anyway. I don't really want to deal with a whiny Diggs because he got tagged, but maybe you tag and trade him for a 3rd if he has a good year. You basically dropped a round to rent a star WR for a year.
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The Porkchop Express
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10:40a, 4/5/24
AG
Well I'm going to put my tin foil hat on and do my best case we're super brilliant scenario here.

The teams decidedly better than the Texans last year in the AFC were: Baltimore, KC, Buffalo.
Cincy probably as well if Burrow returns to his old form after another injury.

In the off-season, the Texans have taken weapons away from 2 of those 4 teams. Mixon is not exactly Ickey Woods over there, but a valued piece nonetheless.

Diggs, IMO, probably hates playing with Josh Allen, because he's losing probably 5 TDs a year to Allen keeping the ball and running. Homeboy had 15 rushing touchdowns in 2023. Give Diggs an extra 5 TD a year the last few years and he's A+++ level WR and commanding the #1 salary in the league.

Diggs has seen what Stroud did last year. He can flick the ball 60 yards on a dime and he tore up the league with B/C level talent to throw to, and the Texans were almost never at full strength.

The Texans restructure his deal, make nice, and go into 2024 telling him, run deep, get open, and you're going blow up with 1800 yards and 15 TDs. If the team improves in '24 the way it did in '23 and stays healthy, you've got a puncher's shot at making it to the AFC title game and the Super Bowl. He's only been to the conference title game once with Buffalo, they go their asses whipped, and he didn't have a really good game.

He comes to the H, lot better weather, exciting young team, a lot more humble QB who ALMOST NEVER RUNS, and he has a chance to be a mega star in a big city, not Robin to Allen's Batman in a tiny frozen hellhole. Plus, there's that little perk of state income tax, which is 0.0% for the 8 games you play down here as opposed to the 10.9% for the 8 games he used to play in Buffalo in the tax bracket for football players.

Diggs is no Randy Moss, but he could have a Randy Moss type impact like the year he went to NE. If he wants to stick around and build on whatever success you have in '24, outstanding. If he wants to walk, you hope he either goes to the NFC or makes a team in the AFC bleed money.
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Texan_Aggie
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In reply to JCA1 • 10:40a, 4/5/24
AG
JCA1 said:
Texan_Aggie said:
You don't really believe the whole "under team control for X years" thing still works, right?
It works for most guys. For the few it doesn't work with because they'll refuse to show up unless you give them a new deal, maybe don't trade for those guys. Those guys are seldom worth the headache.

Yeah but a lot of the guys it works for are JAGs who won't win you championships. Stars, especially WRs, generally don't fit that mold anymore.
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The Porkchop Express
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12:57p, 4/5/24
AG
Got my weekly thing from the Ringer. They have an article about Buffalo suddenly looking not much like a contender anymore and an accompany podcast about the trade. I just started listening to it, but in the first 90 seconds, Sheil Kapadia says, " My top line thought is the Texans can win the Super Bowl next year."

Link to article and pod
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2024/4/3/24120383/stefon-diggs-trade-houston-texans-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-future
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Cartographer
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1:31p, 4/5/24
I'm going to wet blanket for a second.

These past few offseasons have been a great change. They've got all the pieces to do great things but they've won the offseason so far. Nothing more. Till it happens this team is a paper tiger.

I want nothing more than to see them win a SB but until the pads go on and we see it in action I'm not crowning anything. Could they contend, absolutely but we need to see it happen.

This all hinges on one player alone at this point and one year of performance
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Ag_07
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In reply to Cartographer • 1:37p, 4/5/24
AG
Don't disagree with you but that can be said about any NFL team. Lots of teams have great off seasons, look good on a paper, and they depend heavily on the play of their QB.

We're excited because at the moment that's all we have is a team on paper.
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dbryanc87
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In reply to Cartographer • 1:41p, 4/5/24
Cartographer said:
I'm going to wet blanket for a second.

These past few offseasons have been a great change. They've got all the pieces to do great things but they've won the offseason so far. Nothing more. Till it happens this team is a paper tiger.

I want nothing more than to see them win a SB but until the pads go on and we see it in action I'm not crowning anything. Could they contend, absolutely but we need to see it happen.

This all hinges on one player alone at this point and one year of performance
This was essentially accomplished two years ago with the Bengals. Very young coach (year 3 I think vs year 2 Demeco) with a QB in his second season. Here's hoping our 2024 is like their 2021!
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OPAG
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1:45p, 4/5/24
AG
Putting oneself in a position be in the mix of Superbowl contenders is what you want your front office to do and that has been done and it has been done quickly.

Winning it is another thing, there is a lot of things that go into that. Most games are won or lost by one score,

Injuries are always a big issue at the the end of the day. Every team that is a contender has one or a couple of players that they are going to depend on win the crown. Take these key players out and they are going to fall back to the back and not be a contender for the prize.

What would KC do without Maholmes?
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JCA1
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In reply to Texan_Aggie • 2:09p, 4/5/24
AG
Texan_Aggie said:
JCA1 said:
Texan_Aggie said:
You don't really believe the whole "under team control for X years" thing still works, right?
It works for most guys. For the few it doesn't work with because they'll refuse to show up unless you give them a new deal, maybe don't trade for those guys. Those guys are seldom worth the headache.

Yeah but a lot of the guys it works for are JAGs who won't win you championships. Stars, especially WRs, generally don't fit that mold anymore.
What big stars that win championships are routinely demanding to have their contracts with several years remaining ripped up or they will purposefully underperform?
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Texan_Aggie
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In reply to JCA1 • 3:02p, 4/5/24
AG
JCA1 said:
Texan_Aggie said:
JCA1 said:
Texan_Aggie said:
You don't really believe the whole "under team control for X years" thing still works, right?
It works for most guys. For the few it doesn't work with because they'll refuse to show up unless you give them a new deal, maybe don't trade for those guys. Those guys are seldom worth the headache.

Yeah but a lot of the guys it works for are JAGs who won't win you championships. Stars, especially WRs, generally don't fit that mold anymore.
What big stars that win championships are routinely demanding to have their contracts with several years remaining ripped up or they will purposefully underperform?
No, I don't think you're getting the point. 99% of the league has no leverage and so "team control" is legitimate, but these are generally JAGs. The 1% that are stars or game changers that are under "team control" are not actually under team control and if they want a trade, it's in both parties interest to facilitate.

The NFL is going the way of the NBA whereby players run the league. It's a more gradual shift, but it's absolutely happening.
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Texan_Aggie
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In reply to dbryanc87 • 3:04p, 4/5/24
AG
dbryanc87 said:
Cartographer said:
I'm going to wet blanket for a second.

These past few offseasons have been a great change. They've got all the pieces to do great things but they've won the offseason so far. Nothing more. Till it happens this team is a paper tiger.

I want nothing more than to see them win a SB but until the pads go on and we see it in action I'm not crowning anything. Could they contend, absolutely but we need to see it happen.

This all hinges on one player alone at this point and one year of performance
This was essentially accomplished two years ago with the Bengals. Very young coach (year 3 I think vs year 2 Demeco) with a QB in his second season. Here's hoping our 2024 is like their 2021!
I agree, but I think our team is more complete and talented than that Bengals team.

Texans making the Super Bowl in NOLA would be awesome!
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JCA1
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In reply to Texan_Aggie • 3:23p, 4/5/24
AG
Texan_Aggie said:
JCA1 said:
Texan_Aggie said:
JCA1 said:
Texan_Aggie said:
You don't really believe the whole "under team control for X years" thing still works, right?
It works for most guys. For the few it doesn't work with because they'll refuse to show up unless you give them a new deal, maybe don't trade for those guys. Those guys are seldom worth the headache.

Yeah but a lot of the guys it works for are JAGs who won't win you championships. Stars, especially WRs, generally don't fit that mold anymore.
What big stars that win championships are routinely demanding to have their contracts with several years remaining ripped up or they will purposefully underperform?
No, I don't think you're getting the point. 99% of the league has no leverage and so "team control" is legitimate, but these are generally JAGs. The 1% that are stars or game changers that are under "team control" are not actually under team control and if they want a trade, it's in both parties interest to facilitate.

The NFL is going the way of the NBA whereby players run the league. It's a more gradual shift, but it's absolutely happening.
You said guys who win championships do this. I asked for examples and so far, you've provided none. And my point wasn't that some stars don't have this theoretical leverage. I get that, say, Mahomes could do this. My point was that him, and guys like him, don't, even if they could. The guys who do pull these stunts are rarely the guys raising trophies at the end of the year. Just not good for the team chemistry typically needed to run the gauntlet to a championship.

So, again, tell me the championships won on the back of guys that held their team's ransom for a new contract.
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JCA1
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3:31p, 4/5/24
AG
And I'll also add, no concern for the precedent this sets? Diggs has been on the team for all of 20 minutes and he gets the last three years of his deal ripped up? Why can't every guy on the team who thinks he's underpaid/wants a shot at free agency come to Nick now and ask for the same thing? How do you tell them they haven't earned the same treatment as a guy who's literally not even in town yet?

Could certainly see another Duane Brown situation come out of this. As I recall (although I may be off on this), the Texans had a policy of not renegotiating until the final year of a contract. We re-upped someone (Watt?) even though he had a couple years left. Brown came to the front office demanding the same but was told he doesn't get the same consideration. He then became a complete pain in the ass, made veiled accusations of racism against McNair, and forced his way out of town. I'd rather not set that up for a repeat.
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The Porkchop Express
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3:44p, 4/5/24
AG


Christ guys, can we try to trust the staff that won a damn division title last year?
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JCA1
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3:48p, 4/5/24
AG
I said earlier I don't hate the trade and I don't. But we seem to now be admitting that it's a 1 year deal for a shot at a Super Bowl where we had to rip up his contract to entice him to give his best effort. So I'm skeptical. That's all. But the price wasn't too crazy so I'm fine with it despite my skepticism.
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ds00
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5:09p, 4/5/24
Anyone else think there's a possibility we could re-sign Diggs next year for less than the amount we voided? At his age if he's an awesome 2nd or 3rd option this year could we give him say $24 mil for two more years?
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TheNotoriousP.I.P.
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8:56p, 4/5/24
AG
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Texan_Aggie
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In reply to JCA1 • 10:00p, 4/5/24
AG
The precedent is the plus side. Want to come play with a great QB and set yourself up for a contract without meaningless non guaranteed years? Can't build a core with it, but great for 1-2 additions a year. Copy paste

Scroll up
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Texan_Aggie
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In reply to ds00 • 10:02p, 4/5/24
AG
No. If he's good he gets a lot which won't be here, if he's bad we don't want him. If he's mediocre I don't see why we resign him unless he really wants to be here.

It's a one year gamble
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LincolnBorglum79
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12:10a, 4/6/24
AG
It's a rental not a gamble. We are giving up the Vikings 2 next season and we get a Buffalo 5 next year plus a Buffalo 6 in this years draft. It's like we are betting $1 for a possible million dollar payback. And the dollar was given to us.
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Ryan34
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In reply to TheNotoriousP.I.P. • 7:45a, 4/6/24
AG
TheNotoriousP.I.P. said:

This implies we did it for cap reasons. It also implies we expect to resign him because I believe we get a dead cap hit if we don't.

I wonder if we have room for Justin Simmons now.
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LincolnBorglum79
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8:12a, 4/6/24
AG
The dead cap hit is in 2024. No cap hit in future years Moving the small amount of guaranteed money from 25 to this year was necessary to clear the future. It's a true 1 year contract now with the right to franchise tag him if desired.

If he has a great year and wants to stay the Texans will know how Nico and Dell and Diggs worked together and which ones if not all they want to keep.

Maybe they let Diggs go sign elsewhere and trade for olave or Wilson. WR seems to be a very plentiful position right now so I have no worries they will be fine after this year. Noah Brown or Metchie may develop with another year too.
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Ryan34
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In reply to LincolnBorglum79 • 8:34a, 4/6/24
AG
I don't think that's true. Minnesota has a cap charge for Kirk Cousins this year because he had void years and then left. The info above sounds like the Texans did a similar thing with Diggs' contract to lower his 2024 cap #.
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JCA1
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In reply to LincolnBorglum79 • 8:38a, 4/6/24
AG
LincolnBorglum79 said:
It's a rental not a gamble. We are giving up the Vikings 2 next season and we get a Buffalo 5 next year plus a Buffalo 6 in this years draft. It's like we are betting $1 for a possible million dollar payback. And the dollar was given to us.


I don't get the simultaneous belief that our front office is awesome but a 2nd round pick is worth the equivalent of $1. If you think Nick is good at his job, then a 2nd is extremely valuable. And I think he has been good. Nico, Tank, Harris, and Pitre are a few of the guys he's gotten in the 2nd and 3rd rounds the last few years. I think those guys are pretty good and someone along those lines is potentially what we gave up for 1 year of Diggs. Hopefully, it'll work out for us but i think that's the appropriate way to look at it.
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Ryan34
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In reply to JCA1 • 8:48a, 4/6/24
AG
JCA1 said:
LincolnBorglum79 said:
It's a rental not a gamble. We are giving up the Vikings 2 next season and we get a Buffalo 5 next year plus a Buffalo 6 in this years draft. It's like we are betting $1 for a possible million dollar payback. And the dollar was given to us.


I don't get the simultaneous belief that our front office is awesome but a 2nd round pick is worth the equivalent of $1. If you think Nick is good at his job, then a 2nd is extremely valuable. And I think he has been good. Nico, Tank, Harris, and Pitre are a few of the guys he's gotten in the 2nd and 3rd rounds the last few years. I think those guys are pretty good and someone along those lines is potentially what we gave up for 1 year of Diggs. Hopefully, it'll work out for us but i think that's the appropriate way to look at it.

Based on the info above, we restructured his contract to reduce his 2024 cap number. If he leaves next year, we'd get a dead cap charge similar to cutting someone. That's what happened to Minnesota this year with Kirk Cousins. So we will likely try pretty hard to resign him rather than him being a rental.
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ATM9000
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In reply to LincolnBorglum79 • 9:49a, 4/6/24
AG
LincolnBorglum79 said:
The dead cap hit is in 2024. No cap hit in future years Moving the small amount of guaranteed money from 25 to this year was necessary to clear the future. It's a true 1 year contract now with the right to franchise tag him if desired.

If he has a great year and wants to stay the Texans will know how Nico and Dell and Diggs worked together and which ones if not all they want to keep.

Maybe they let Diggs go sign elsewhere and trade for olave or Wilson. WR seems to be a very plentiful position right now so I have no worries they will be fine after this year. Noah Brown or Metchie may develop with another year too.


To be clear, dead cap is merely a cap hit a team takes for guaranteed money on contracts in the NFL for players no longer on their roster… so I don't think you are quite using the term properly.

The Bills are taking a dead cap hit of $31m of the guaranteed money Diggs was paid that was scheduled to pro-rate the next few years.

When they traded Diggs to the Texans, all that has happened is the Texans effectively agreed to give Diggs his guaranteed money in 2025 in 2024 and there's no obligations after that. The only way the Texans will have 'dead cap' for Diggs on this contract is if they decide to cut him midseason in 2024 and that dead cap is only in 2024.
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