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36,099 Views | 186 Replies | Last: 24 days ago by tamuags08
Seamaster
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BoDog said:

Seamaster said:

I'd 2nd (or 3rd) commercial insurance underwriting/broking.

Have been underwriting specialist lines commercial insurance and now lead national UW team for a global insurance company and earn…very good money. For an Aggie non lawyer.
What was your education path? My HS son is very interested in Baylor's insurance/risk managment major. Dad just isnt too interested in the cost of tuition.


One doesn't need to go to Baylor.

I have liberal arts degree from A&M (international studies.)

All the degree does is get you that first job. Most major carriers have new grad programs for the UW track. Get into one of those and do well, work hard, be a cool colleague and you'll be on the track.

It takes hard work, a bit of technical skill, ability to ask questions and negotiate. When get higher up it's more strategic and relationship driven.

I know people that have risk management degrees - but it's not necessary.
BoDog
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Great to know. Thanks for the insight.

So I assume you work for a company like Travelers, Chubb, etc? (Sorry, probably a dumb question-I know very little about the insurance world).
MRB10
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Seamaster said:

BoDog said:

Seamaster said:

I'd 2nd (or 3rd) commercial insurance underwriting/broking.

Have been underwriting specialist lines commercial insurance and now lead national UW team for a global insurance company and earn…very good money. For an Aggie non lawyer.
What was your education path? My HS son is very interested in Baylor's insurance/risk managment major. Dad just isnt too interested in the cost of tuition.


One doesn't need to go to Baylor.

I have liberal arts degree from A&M (international studies.)

All the degree does is get you that first job. Most major carriers have new grad programs for the UW track. Get into one of those and do well, work hard, be a cool colleague and you'll be on the track.

It takes hard work, a bit of technical skill, ability to ask questions and negotiate. When get higher up it's more strategic and relationship driven.

I know people that have risk management degrees - but it's not necessary.


This is 100% spot on.

(Also a liberal arts major)

infinity ag
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Location matters a lot. $200k in Dallas is different from 200k in San Fran
Thunderstruck xx
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RangerRick9211 said:

Bring the hate, but consulting is easy money. You have some dues coming out of B-school, but I've been in coast mode for a few years now. You just have to find the right client, make middle management and never, ever climb the ladder.

PwC is a cohort model and their folks always crowdsource their new comp to reverse engineer the pay structure across ranks/city/tier (performance). It's pretty similar and a good proxy for other firms.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1p82A0ORFPWb6pHMv0LFKzM4FClvFoDQ8HsNTEZkXtKQ/htmlview#gid=1642874993

For reference, a new MBA grad will enter as a SA2 ($193k) with a sign of $60 and a perf (Tier 1) target of 30%. Total all-in for a fresh hire is $310k for that year. It does go down next year as sign is a one off.

For me, 36, "Manager 2" equivalent in the sheet and it's pretty close. $220 base and a consistent Tier 2 performer (40%). I do nothing beyond my client role with no desire to move up. I have, and will continue to bounce between firms to remain a "Manager."

You won't hire into S&/EYP/Deloitte Strat without MBA on-campus pipeline. But I know plenty of ex-engineers within my firm that do advisory work without an MBA. Their pay is slightly below ours, but it's still great and the ceiling is the same as mine (all comp aligns at Partner across a firm).

Once you know the game, the gig is easy, criminally easy.


Consulting in which industry? And why do you never want to climb the ladder?
AgLA06
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Thunderstruck xx said:

RangerRick9211 said:

Bring the hate, but consulting is easy money. You have some dues coming out of B-school, but I've been in coast mode for a few years now. You just have to find the right client, make middle management and never, ever climb the ladder.

PwC is a cohort model and their folks always crowdsource their new comp to reverse engineer the pay structure across ranks/city/tier (performance). It's pretty similar and a good proxy for other firms.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1p82A0ORFPWb6pHMv0LFKzM4FClvFoDQ8HsNTEZkXtKQ/htmlview#gid=1642874993

For reference, a new MBA grad will enter as a SA2 ($193k) with a sign of $60 and a perf (Tier 1) target of 30%. Total all-in for a fresh hire is $310k for that year. It does go down next year as sign is a one off.

For me, 36, "Manager 2" equivalent in the sheet and it's pretty close. $220 base and a consistent Tier 2 performer (40%). I do nothing beyond my client role with no desire to move up. I have, and will continue to bounce between firms to remain a "Manager."

You won't hire into S&/EYP/Deloitte Strat without MBA on-campus pipeline. But I know plenty of ex-engineers within my firm that do advisory work without an MBA. Their pay is slightly below ours, but it's still great and the ceiling is the same as mine (all comp aligns at Partner across a firm).

Once you know the game, the gig is easy, criminally easy.


Consulting in which industry? And why do you never want to climb the ladder?
I hope he comes back to expand more, but I have a close friend that is a partner at a big 4. Planned their entire life / career to get to this point at 40.

They won't admit it, but I think they ultimately regret it. They went from making very good money, slightly above average time commitment, and managing actual meaningful work to ridicules time commitment chasing business and ridiculous money.

At some point it changes from being good at your job executing / managing work to basically being sales focused to bring in money to get your numbers / billable hours as a partner. And all the additional happy hours, business entertainment, travel, and account management that comes with it in addition to the previous responsibilities.

It's not surprising that the divorce rate / substance abuse rate is high among consulting partners.

BoDog
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Not to derail, but does anyone have any experience in a benefits broker or P&C insurance sales role? Sort of asking on behalf of my son.

With residuals, etc I would imagine after several years in the role and putting in your dues it could be very financially rewarding....?
MRB10
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It can be if you find a niche and enjoy the work. The generalist market is extremely saturated and it absolutely is a grind. There is a lot outside of the producers control that leads to existing clients moving brokers, which can create a lot of volatility in YOY revenue, so you have to be constantly chasing new business.

You have to really be passionate about sales to stick with it.

I don't have the personality for it but have enough friends in the industry on that side of the house to feel comfortable commenting.
SidetrackAg
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It's nice to make a lot of money, it's fun to spend it as well, but always remember (this may not be the thread for it, so flag if needed) money will not bring more happiness. Unless you are the heir to a fortune, all of the big money you want to make will require a personal sacrifice that most people do not realize until it is too late and they are in the thick of it.
jaggiemaggie
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I have a buddy that does consulting out in Wesr Texas M-Th, then drives back to San Antonio so he can be remote Friday. Makes REALLY good money but his 3 girls all under 8 barely know him
RangerRick9211
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AgLA06 said:

Thunderstruck xx said:

RangerRick9211 said:

Bring the hate, but consulting is easy money. You have some dues coming out of B-school, but I've been in coast mode for a few years now. You just have to find the right client, make middle management and never, ever climb the ladder.

PwC is a cohort model and their folks always crowdsource their new comp to reverse engineer the pay structure across ranks/city/tier (performance). It's pretty similar and a good proxy for other firms.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1p82A0ORFPWb6pHMv0LFKzM4FClvFoDQ8HsNTEZkXtKQ/htmlview#gid=1642874993

For reference, a new MBA grad will enter as a SA2 ($193k) with a sign of $60 and a perf (Tier 1) target of 30%. Total all-in for a fresh hire is $310k for that year. It does go down next year as sign is a one off.

For me, 36, "Manager 2" equivalent in the sheet and it's pretty close. $220 base and a consistent Tier 2 performer (40%). I do nothing beyond my client role with no desire to move up. I have, and will continue to bounce between firms to remain a "Manager."

You won't hire into S&/EYP/Deloitte Strat without MBA on-campus pipeline. But I know plenty of ex-engineers within my firm that do advisory work without an MBA. Their pay is slightly below ours, but it's still great and the ceiling is the same as mine (all comp aligns at Partner across a firm).

Once you know the game, the gig is easy, criminally easy.


Consulting in which industry? And why do you never want to climb the ladder?
I hope he comes back to expand more, but I have a close friend that is a partner at a big 4. Planned their entire life / career to get to this point at 40.

They won't admit it, but I think they ultimately regret it. They went from making very good money, slightly above average time commitment, and managing actual meaningful work to ridicules time commitment chasing business and ridiculous money.

At some point it changes from being good at your job executing / managing work to basically being sales focused to bring in money to get your numbers / billable hours as a partner. And all the additional happy hours, business entertainment, travel, and account management that comes with it in addition to the previous responsibilities.

It's not surprising that the divorce rate / substance abuse rate is high among consulting partners.
Yo, M&A in energy. CIVE > MBA > M&A. I do integration / separation execution. I don't touch diligence or strategy.

Big 4 primer,

  • Associates / Staff = Undergrad hires. Life sucks for them.
  • Senior = Can be promoted undergrad hire; entry for MBA campus hires (different pay cohort, though). Life generally sucks for them as well. Typical consulting experience: told what, where and how. Minimal voice and delegation.
  • Manager = Typically own a single client / workstream and have a team to delegate work. More voice, more maneuverability and more control over type of work. IMPORTANLY, your performance is still governed by utilization, not rev or sales. Expectation is to above-and-beyond sales to justify a promotion, but it's not mandatory. So, I don't do anything beyond client work, because...
  • Director/Senior Manger = **** sandwich. Multiple clients, multiple teams = multiple messy humans and needs. PPMDs pass all the internal and client crap to you. Worst hours, most pressure and you slave away for 4-6 years playing the internal politics game to get Partnership. You're judged by sales and managed rev.
  • PPMD = Lot's of money (median ~$1m for my practice), terrible hours and A-game everyday. Better hours than Director/SM, though.

Net, I make plenty and have an excellent WLB and minimal work stress. I have a lot outside of work (dad, skiing, MTB / gravel racing) and I'd rather spend my time there. We're nearing FI (4-5 years away hopefully) and I plan to eventually downshift. So career advancement is in my rearview.

Said simply, I'm at the point in my life where I've turned Team's notifications off on my phone. I could not do that as a Senior or a Director. Solid middle-management, ftw.
BoDog
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MRB10 said:

It can be if you find a niche and enjoy the work. The generalist market is extremely saturated and it absolutely is a grind. There is a lot outside of the producers control that leads to existing clients moving brokers, which can create a lot of volatility in YOY revenue, so you have to be constantly chasing new business.

You have to really be passionate about sales to stick with it.

I don't have the personality for it but have enough friends in the industry on that side of the house to feel comfortable commenting.
Thanks. Based on your perspective do you see the benefits or P&C side more lucrative? I would assume work/life balance and stress are probably comparable.
infinity ag
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SidetrackAg said:

It's nice to make a lot of money, it's fun to spend it as well, but always remember (this may not be the thread for it, so flag if needed) money will not bring more happiness. Unless you are the heir to a fortune, all of the big money you want to make will require a personal sacrifice that most people do not realize until it is too late and they are in the thick of it.

Yes, I had started a thread on that a few weeks ago.
We are all so engrossed with making money that we forget to spend it. By the time we wake up, life has gone by.

Money can buy happiness and a lot of other things but nothing is guaranteed. If you have $10M, having 10B will not bring any additional change to your life. There is only so much a human being can spend.
Astroag
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infinity ag said:

SidetrackAg said:

It's nice to make a lot of money, it's fun to spend it as well, but always remember (this may not be the thread for it, so flag if needed) money will not bring more happiness. Unless you are the heir to a fortune, all of the big money you want to make will require a personal sacrifice that most people do not realize until it is too late and they are in the thick of it.

Yes, I had started a thread on that a few weeks ago.
We are all so engrossed with making money that we forget to spend it. By the time we wake up, life has gone by.

Money can buy happiness and a lot of other things but nothing is guaranteed. If you have $10M, having 10B will not bring any additional change to your life. There is only so much a human being can spend.


I understand your point but you drastically mis understand the difference between million and billion and definitely between 10 million and 10 billion.

An example using time:
A million seconds is 12 days.
A billion seconds is 32 years.

_______________________________________________________


If ya ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!!!
500,000ags
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What's a trillion seconds?
Astroag
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500,000ags said:

What's a trillion seconds?


Not sure if serious or a reference to Austin Powers but a quick google says about 32k years…
_______________________________________________________


If ya ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!!!
MRB10
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Benefits is its own world and I don't cross over with those folks much. I'm not the best person to ask.
Raptor
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I'm in my 18th year in education with a side gig in the medical field (education position). Cleared 100K for the first time last year. With my annual raise, and a couple of longevity bonuses, I'll clear $200k in 71-72 years.
This post is for Cretaceous Level Subscribers only.

ktownag08
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Congrats! 100k is a big milestone.

Read only about 18% of individuals make that much in the US. Only about 4% make 200k.
infinity ag
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I always wonder what people do as a "side gig". I have no ideas. I make good money in the stock market, and work in the tech industry but a sidegig? Not sure.
Hoyt Ag
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There was a thread on side gigs within the last year, I am sure it can be dug up. I am a big game guide on the side and rent out rooms in my house to travelling nurses. It is an additional $40-50K a year for me.
AM09
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interesting thread, have enjoyed reading along. $200K threshold has definitely replaced the magical "6 figure / $100K" barometer.
evestor1
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AM09 said:

interesting thread, have enjoyed reading along. $200K threshold has definitely replaced the magical "6 figure / $100K" barometer.
The 200k threshold is very real.

I can do whatever i want with employees up to 180k-192k or so. Ask to pay 200k to a dude with 30 years of perfect experience. pffttt - too much bro!


Gordon McKernan
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34 y/o

Work for public software company. Sales strategy/planning/reporting/analysis. Lots of exposure to c-suite & execs. Sr mgr level now with analysts under me.

Right now base $175k, bonus last three years has been $20-$25k, and receive ~$100k RSUs per year. I expect promo to director level in next 4-8 months, and believe base will climb to low 200s, & bonus/RSU bands will increase accordingly.

Fully remote, travel if needed but not a lot.
213 Grove
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Don't lie. We have all seen your billboards Mr. Injury attorney
500,000ags
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You receive $100k in vested RSUs per year?
Astroag
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500,000ags said:

You receive $100k in vested RSUs per year?


I'm betting 100k grant that vests over 4 years
_______________________________________________________


If ya ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!!!
Cyp0111
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RSU are almost always staggered and vest over a period of time.
2012Ag
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FANG companies are easily giving out $100k a year. Even in Texas locations. Of course the WLB is terrible though.
WestHoustonAg79
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young 30s. Masters from Mays (not needed for what I do, but needed it at the time to mature a bit, MRE is only 3 semesters). CRE broker. Made $40k with some tips first year out in 2015 which was then super low. If you have the right grit and personality, and stay at it long enough, it seems to work out for most that make it through their first 5 or so years.
DRE06
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BoDog said:

Not to derail, but does anyone have any experience in a benefits broker or P&C insurance sales role? Sort of asking on behalf of my son.

With residuals, etc I would imagine after several years in the role and putting in your dues it could be very financially rewarding....?
Have a very close friend who is in P&C sales for Federated Insurance. He easily clears $500k/year. He put in the work those first 10 years and is reaping the benefits now. Just understand it is the very definition of a sales role and that has to be a fit for your sons personality. Lots of time in the car driving around trying to find new customers.
Gordon McKernan
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Ha… you are the first person to recognize the name and call it out. All the time spent driving through Louisiana and being amazed by how many billboards he has up, thought it made for a funny name at the time.

& to answer other questions re RSUs, since joining ~3 yrs ago my grants have been $75k, $85k, $95k, $100k. The first grant was 4-yr vest, & after that they changed them all to 3-yr vest.

So I am on the "treadmill" now, & with where stock is at now vs what it was when I received some of the grants I basically always have $100k+ of stock that will vest in a given year, & $200k+ unvested stock sitting out in front of me. Of course taxes rip into that.

My WLB does suck at times, when my CRO or our CFO/CEO wants something or has a question, regardless of day/time, we are expected to be available. For the most part though, it isn't bad.

My analysts are all upper 20s and make ~$120-130k base, ~$15k bonus, & $50-60k per year in RSUs. They all choose to live in expensive states tho (CA/NY/MA).
Hornbeck
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I went from doing the work as a pro services engineer to selling the stuff as a sales engineer. I handle two of our largest customers, and will probably make north of $300k this year. My OTE is $245, but it has been a great year.
oragator
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My one piece of general advice, probably mentioned in different forms in this thread and likely what you're already considering…
But don't be afraid to get out of your comfort zone and even job hop inside or outside your industry to get to where you need to go, be it internal or external. But treat personal satisfaction and comfort as highly as you treat your salary needs. My first big promotion came when I left my company to go to another in the same industry. I did a lateral move once to get the right experience and title when I switched industries. And I've been promoted twice internally at my current place of employment for taking on new tasks, so it has many forms.
Money comes with your value as a worker, so maximize your value where you can. I am now where my salary and work life balance offset really well, I don't need more money enough to throw that balance off. I work 33 hour a week roughly from home with the same boss for many years. That has its own value. In fact, I asked my boss during last years annual review what I would need to demonstrate to move up another level. More out of curiosity than anything. His answer was "do you really want that?'" Guess he knows me and the sweet spot I have right now.
hedge
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Industry?
 
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