Seamaster said:

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BoDog said:

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Seamaster said:

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I'd 2nd (or 3rd) commercial insurance underwriting/broking.

Have been underwriting specialist lines commercial insurance and now lead national UW team for a global insurance company and earn…very good money. For an Aggie non lawyer.

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What was your education path? My HS son is very interested in Baylor's insurance/risk managment major. Dad just isnt too interested in the cost of tuition.

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One doesn't need to go to Baylor.

I have liberal arts degree from A&M (international studies.)

All the degree does is get you that first job. Most major carriers have new grad programs for the UW track. Get into one of those and do well, work hard, be a cool colleague and you'll be on the track.

It takes hard work, a bit of technical skill, ability to ask questions and negotiate. When get higher up it's more strategic and relationship driven.

I know people that have risk management degrees - but it's not necessary.

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RangerRick9211 said:

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Bring the hate, but consulting is easy money. You have some dues coming out of B-school, but I've been in coast mode for a few years now. You just have to find the right client, make middle management and never, ever climb the ladder.

PwC is a cohort model and their folks always crowdsource their new comp to reverse engineer the pay structure across ranks/city/tier (performance). It's pretty similar and a good proxy for other firms.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1p82A0ORFPWb6pHMv0LFKzM4FClvFoDQ8HsNTEZkXtKQ/htmlview#gid=1642874993

For reference, a new MBA grad will enter as a SA2 ($193k) with a sign of $60 and a perf (Tier 1) target of 30%. Total all-in for a fresh hire is $310k for that year. It does go down next year as sign is a one off.

For me, 36, "Manager 2" equivalent in the sheet and it's pretty close. $220 base and a consistent Tier 2 performer (40%). I do nothing beyond my client role with no desire to move up. I have, and will continue to bounce between firms to remain a "Manager."

You won't hire into S&/EYP/Deloitte Strat without MBA on-campus pipeline. But I know plenty of ex-engineers within my firm that do advisory work without an MBA. Their pay is slightly below ours, but it's still great and the ceiling is the same as mine (all comp aligns at Partner across a firm).

Once you know the game, the gig is easy, criminally easy.

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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RangerRick9211 said:

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Bring the hate, but consulting is easy money. You have some dues coming out of B-school, but I've been in coast mode for a few years now. You just have to find the right client, make middle management and never, ever climb the ladder.

PwC is a cohort model and their folks always crowdsource their new comp to reverse engineer the pay structure across ranks/city/tier (performance). It's pretty similar and a good proxy for other firms.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1p82A0ORFPWb6pHMv0LFKzM4FClvFoDQ8HsNTEZkXtKQ/htmlview#gid=1642874993

For reference, a new MBA grad will enter as a SA2 ($193k) with a sign of $60 and a perf (Tier 1) target of 30%. Total all-in for a fresh hire is $310k for that year. It does go down next year as sign is a one off.

For me, 36, "Manager 2" equivalent in the sheet and it's pretty close. $220 base and a consistent Tier 2 performer (40%). I do nothing beyond my client role with no desire to move up. I have, and will continue to bounce between firms to remain a "Manager."

You won't hire into S&/EYP/Deloitte Strat without MBA on-campus pipeline. But I know plenty of ex-engineers within my firm that do advisory work without an MBA. Their pay is slightly below ours, but it's still great and the ceiling is the same as mine (all comp aligns at Partner across a firm).

Once you know the game, the gig is easy, criminally easy.

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Consulting in which industry? And why do you never want to climb the ladder?

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AgLA06 said:

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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RangerRick9211 said:

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Bring the hate, but consulting is easy money. You have some dues coming out of B-school, but I've been in coast mode for a few years now. You just have to find the right client, make middle management and never, ever climb the ladder.

PwC is a cohort model and their folks always crowdsource their new comp to reverse engineer the pay structure across ranks/city/tier (performance). It's pretty similar and a good proxy for other firms.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1p82A0ORFPWb6pHMv0LFKzM4FClvFoDQ8HsNTEZkXtKQ/htmlview#gid=1642874993

For reference, a new MBA grad will enter as a SA2 ($193k) with a sign of $60 and a perf (Tier 1) target of 30%. Total all-in for a fresh hire is $310k for that year. It does go down next year as sign is a one off.

For me, 36, "Manager 2" equivalent in the sheet and it's pretty close. $220 base and a consistent Tier 2 performer (40%). I do nothing beyond my client role with no desire to move up. I have, and will continue to bounce between firms to remain a "Manager."

You won't hire into S&/EYP/Deloitte Strat without MBA on-campus pipeline. But I know plenty of ex-engineers within my firm that do advisory work without an MBA. Their pay is slightly below ours, but it's still great and the ceiling is the same as mine (all comp aligns at Partner across a firm).

Once you know the game, the gig is easy, criminally easy.

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Consulting in which industry? And why do you never want to climb the ladder?

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I hope he comes back to expand more, but I have a close friend that is a partner at a big 4. Planned their entire life / career to get to this point at 40.

They won't admit it, but I think they ultimately regret it. They went from making very good money, slightly above average time commitment, and managing actual meaningful work to ridicules time commitment chasing business and ridiculous money.

At some point it changes from being good at your job executing / managing work to basically being sales focused to bring in money to get your numbers / billable hours as a partner. And all the additional happy hours, business entertainment, travel, and account management that comes with it in addition to the previous responsibilities.

It's not surprising that the divorce rate / substance abuse rate is high among consulting partners.

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• Associates / Staff = Undergrad hires. Life sucks for them.
• Senior = Can be promoted undergrad hire; entry for MBA campus hires (different pay cohort, though). Life generally sucks for them as well. Typical consulting experience: told what, where and how. Minimal voice and delegation.
• Manager = Typically own a single client / workstream and have a team to delegate work. More voice, more maneuverability and more control over type of work. IMPORTANLY, your performance is still governed by utilization, not rev or sales. Expectation is to above-and-beyond sales to justify a promotion, but it's not mandatory. So, I don't do anything beyond client work, because...
• Director/Senior Manger = **** sandwich. Multiple clients, multiple teams = multiple messy humans and needs. PPMDs pass all the internal and client crap to you. Worst hours, most pressure and you slave away for 4-6 years playing the internal politics game to get Partnership. You're judged by sales and managed rev.
• PPMD = Lot's of money (median ~$1m for my practice), terrible hours and A-game everyday. Better hours than Director/SM, though.

MRB10 said:

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It can be if you find a niche and enjoy the work. The generalist market is extremely saturated and it absolutely is a grind. There is a lot outside of the producers control that leads to existing clients moving brokers, which can create a lot of volatility in YOY revenue, so you have to be constantly chasing new business.

You have to really be passionate about sales to stick with it.

I don't have the personality for it but have enough friends in the industry on that side of the house to feel comfortable commenting.

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SidetrackAg said:

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It's nice to make a lot of money, it's fun to spend it as well, but always remember (this may not be the thread for it, so flag if needed) money will not bring more happiness. Unless you are the heir to a fortune, all of the big money you want to make will require a personal sacrifice that most people do not realize until it is too late and they are in the thick of it.

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infinity ag said:

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SidetrackAg said:

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It's nice to make a lot of money, it's fun to spend it as well, but always remember (this may not be the thread for it, so flag if needed) money will not bring more happiness. Unless you are the heir to a fortune, all of the big money you want to make will require a personal sacrifice that most people do not realize until it is too late and they are in the thick of it.

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Yes, I had started a thread on that a few weeks ago.
We are all so engrossed with making money that we forget to spend it. By the time we wake up, life has gone by.

Money can buy happiness and a lot of other things but nothing is guaranteed. If you have $10M, having 10B will not bring any additional change to your life. There is only so much a human being can spend.

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500,000ags said:

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What's a trillion seconds?

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500,000ags said:

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You receive $100k in vested RSUs per year?

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BoDog said:

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Not to derail, but does anyone have any experience in a benefits broker or P&C insurance sales role? Sort of asking on behalf of my son.

With residuals, etc I would imagine after several years in the role and putting in your dues it could be very financially rewarding....?

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