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Elevator Consultancy - What questions can I answer for you?

10,162 Views | 86 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by HouAggie
Spinnaker96
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9:23a, 12/5/23
AG
Happy Holidays, everyone!

I'm jumping into a new role as an elevator consultant after working the past 5 years in facilities management (with elevator experience) and about 15 years of working with major elevator firms (ThyssenKrupp/TKE and Otis).

With the transition, I'm looking for the opportunity to help anyone that is struggling with their elevator company or might need some advice on what to do with older elevators that have become problematic. If you're in Texas, that's great, but even if you have locations that are elsewhere I can provide assistance.

If you have general questions feel free to reply here, and I'll field them on this thread. If you have something specific that you need help with, send me a DM.

Thanks and Gig 'em!

Spinnaker96 - FTA c/o 1996
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EFE
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3:12p, 12/5/23
AG
Tell me about all of the ups and downs
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bam02
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8:08p, 12/5/23
AG
How come it seems that the fewer floors a building has, the slower its elevators move?
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Spinnaker96
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In reply to EFE • 9:19a, 12/6/23
AG
Man, if you only knew!

...it took a while to get on my level. ;-)
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Spinnaker96
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In reply to bam02 • 9:26a, 12/6/23
AG
Great question! That's because it is slower!

For lower rise (distance between finished floor at the bottom landing and finished floor at the top landing) buildings, it's tougher to speed up and slow down enough to make the ride comfortable.

If I'm in a car and I have 1 mile to get to 100 mph and back to 0 mph, that's pretty simple.

If I have 1000 feet to do the same, not so easy without some pretty significant stress on my passengers.

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bam02
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In reply to Spinnaker96 • 9:48a, 12/6/23
AG
Makes sense! I've always wondered, but I never thought I would have the occasion to interact with an elevator consultant.
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CC09LawAg
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In reply to Spinnaker96 • 10:05a, 12/6/23
How do you determine the length of time to leave the doors open, the speed/force with which they close, and how they respond when they hit something while closing?

Where I work currently, those things will absolutely hammer you if you get in at the wrong time and don't seem to "sense" when they're making contact. Other places it seems like the slightest tap will cause them to open again.
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CapCity12thMan
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10:46a, 12/6/23
AG
this is fascinating
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Spinnaker96
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In reply to CC09LawAg • 12:47p, 12/6/23
AG
Also a good question!

There are regs and specs that determine how fast the doors close, how fast they open, how long they stay open and the force with which they close. Most of these are centered on the minimums or maximums.

For instance, the doors mustn't exceed 30ft/lb of force when closing. We have gauges that we use to measure this when we do assessments to make sure the doors are in compliance.

Similarly, the doors must stay fully open for a minimum of 3 seconds in order to adhere to ADA code (to ensure those with disabilities can load and unload safely.) We time these when we do assessments to ensure that property owners are clear of any liability.

Most, if not all, of these settings can be adjusted to suit the building need, so long as the mins/maxes are met.
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stroodles
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2:38p, 12/6/23
AG
Can I have a set of keys?

How come on every project the GC gets hit for $5K to $10K for some random reason?
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Spinnaker96
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In reply to stroodles • 3:11p, 12/6/23
AG
You can (and probably should) have a set of keys!

If you're managing a property, you need to at least have the fire service keys for testing and for use by first responders. It's also nice to be able to use the additional functions of the elevator (run/stop, independent or hospital service) when equipped. Your local elevator mechanic will normally provide a set to the building if it's a brand new unit, and if it isn't new, and you ask nicely, they should give you a set.

One exception would be for the door key (sometimes called a drop key). Jurisdictions have different rules about who can possess and use the keys, primarily to keep people from getting hurt. Opening the door to the elevator hoistway when the car is in operation is dangerous to someone who isn't trained, and it can also cause the elevator to shut down if not done properly.

Change orders are, unfortunately, part of the business. When the schedule or material changes from the initial bid, the elevator company is going to exact a financial price to cover (and likely exceed) the cost of the change. The elevator sales and PM departments are extremely diligent about documentation...my old manager used to say, "The person with the top piece of paperwork on the stack wins."

The best protection against this is a good spec (that sets the GC on equal footing) and good project management. Watch out, specifically, for the clarifications on the elevator bid...the devil's in the details.
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chico
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5:25p, 12/6/23
AG
Why is there a stupid TV screen inside a fancy skyscraper's elevator?
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chico
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5:26p, 12/6/23
AG
Why are elevator passengers always equidistant from each other? You can have four people in the elevator, and then it stops at a floor and one gets off. Then the three remaining will readjust so that they are all equidistant from each other.
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Naveronski
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10:30p, 12/6/23
AG
Why doesn't the "door close" button seem to actually do anything?
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BrazosDog02
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In reply to chico • 12:24a, 12/7/23
AG
chico said:
Why are elevator passengers always equidistant from each other? You can have four people in the elevator, and then it stops at a floor and one gets off. Then the three remaining will readjust so that they are all equidistant from each other.


That's entropy. Nothing to worry about. It works exactly opposite in restrooms.
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clobby
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7:29a, 12/7/23
AG
If an elevator is in free fall and I jump right before it hits the ground, will I be ok?
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Slagathor
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In reply to clobby • 8:09a, 12/7/23
AG
Just saw this Mythbusters episode. They said nope, you'd be dead.
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tamuags08
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In reply to clobby • 8:10a, 12/7/23
AG
clobby said:
If an elevator is in free fall and I jump right before it hits the ground, will I be ok?
To add onto this, can you talk about how the emergency braking system works in modern elevators? I've heard the concept of "Free falling elevators" doesn't exist (or exists in a very very miniscule population) due to the re-design of the emergency braking system.
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Shelton98
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In reply to chico • 8:41a, 12/7/23
AG
chico said:
Why are elevator passengers always equidistant from each other? You can have four people in the elevator, and then it stops at a floor and one gets off. Then the three remaining will readjust so that they are all equidistant from each other.
I've never really thought about this until you mentioned it.... but you're right.
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bam02
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8:48a, 12/7/23
AG
All of our wildest elevator question dreams are coming true!
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Spinnaker96
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In reply to Naveronski • 10:39a, 12/7/23
AG
I get asked about the "Door Close" button a lot.

The Truth: It has more function for emergencies than it does for everyday passengers.

In an Emergency: When there's a fire in a building, you wouldn't want the elevator to immediately depart the landing and immediately open the doors on a new landing. The door close button allows the emergency personnel to tell the elevator "I'm ready to go to the indicated floor" by requiring constant pressure until the door is fully closed prior to departing the landing. Nothing worse than a surprise during a fire...

Everyday: When there's not a fire in the building, the door close button still has its use, but it can't override the safety or ADA parameters. That is, it won't work if the button would make the door close sooner than code would allow. So, if the door had already started to close, but you, as a kindly passenger, held the door for someone hurrying to catch the elevator, you could press the door close button as soon as they entered and the door would begin to close.
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Spinnaker96
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In reply to chico • 10:46a, 12/7/23
AG
This one falls to human nature.

The textbook elevator answer is that an average person will require about 3sq ft of floor area to feel comfortable. This can be crowded to 2sq ft at a minimum, if forced (say, leaving the building at the end of the day), but will quickly readjust back to 3sq ft as other passengers leave.

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htxag09
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In reply to chico • 10:51a, 12/7/23
AG
chico said:
Why are elevator passengers always equidistant from each other? You can have four people in the elevator, and then it stops at a floor and one gets off. Then the three remaining will readjust so that they are all equidistant from each other.
Bet you didn't know the answer to this was actually within an elevatoring textbook....
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chico
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In reply to htxag09 • 12:01p, 12/7/23
AG
htxag09 said:
chico said:
Why are elevator passengers always equidistant from each other? You can have four people in the elevator, and then it stops at a floor and one gets off. Then the three remaining will readjust so that they are all equidistant from each other.
Bet you didn't know the answer to this was actually within an elevatoring textbook....


At first, I thought the term elevator consultant was a joke, but now I realize this is really a thing! Awesome!
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BiggiesLX
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1:19p, 12/7/23
1. Do you have model elevators in your home?

2. What kind of pranks may elevator consultants pull on the FNGs?

3. What are your personal and professional opinions on the 13th floor?

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chico
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In reply to Spinnaker96 • 2:07p, 12/7/23
AG
Spinnaker96 said:
This one falls to human nature.

The textbook elevator answer is that an average person will require about 3sq ft of floor area to feel comfortable. This can be crowded to 2sq ft at a minimum, if forced (say, leaving the building at the end of the day), but will quickly readjust back to 3sq ft as other passengers leave.

fine print at bottom - from "Elevator World Magazine". I just googled and the magazine is described as:
"Elevator World, Inc. has been the premier publisher for the global vertical transportation industry for more than 70 years." This is awesome - the vertical transportation industry!
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CC09LawAg
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2:45p, 12/7/23
This is the current best thread on TexAgs.
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CC09LawAg
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2:50p, 12/7/23
If I am ever stuck on an elevator in a situation where help either can't reach me or time is of the essence in an emergency situation, what is the smartest thing to do to get out?
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to htxag09 • 3:03p, 12/7/23
AG
htxag09 said:
chico said:
Why are elevator passengers always equidistant from each other? You can have four people in the elevator, and then it stops at a floor and one gets off. Then the three remaining will readjust so that they are all equidistant from each other.
Bet you didn't know the answer to this was actually within an elevatoring textbook....
And published in Elevator World Magazine!
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Josepi
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3:18p, 12/7/23
AG
That doctor was decapitated in the elevator at a hospital in Houston 20ish years ago. What the hell happened there? That's the stuff of nightmares.
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Spinnaker96
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In reply to tamuags08 • 3:35p, 12/7/23
AG
tamuags08 said:
clobby said:
If an elevator is in free fall and I jump right before it hits the ground, will I be ok?
To add onto this, can you talk about how the emergency braking system works in modern elevators? I've heard the concept of "Free falling elevators" doesn't exist (or exists in a very very miniscule population) due to the re-design of the emergency braking system.


So I started a reply twice already to this but stopped. This is a big topic because almost every interaction that you have with an elevator is designed around keeping you safe.

I'll start with a simple fact and dive more deeply into it later for fear of creating a wall of text that no one will read.

Here's the fact: It is very unlikely that you'd find yourself free falling in an elevator. The reason is this - for traction elevators (with wire ropes holding a suspended elevator cab), you have anywhere from 4 to 8 cables attached to the top of the elevator. Every single one of these is designed to hold the entire weight of a fully loaded car. The chances of all of them failing at once is so very tiny.

Here's a story: In WW2 a B-25 bomber ran into the Empire State Building. Betty Lou Oliver was an elevator operator in the building. She was in the elevator at the 75th floor when all of the cables failed due to the crash. She fell, with the elevator, to the basement below...and survived (although she was injured). The air being pushed ahead of the falling car was credited with providing a cushioning effect to dampen the impact.

Betty Lou Oliver

Lastly, every traction elevator that you ride has to be tested every 5 years. The test includes loading the car with weights to 125% capacity and dropping it at full speed down the hoistway to ensure that all of the safety equipment works properly!
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CC09LawAg
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In reply to Spinnaker96 • 3:42p, 12/7/23
Spinnaker96 said:
tamuags08 said:
clobby said:
If an elevator is in free fall and I jump right before it hits the ground, will I be ok?
To add onto this, can you talk about how the emergency braking system works in modern elevators? I've heard the concept of "Free falling elevators" doesn't exist (or exists in a very very miniscule population) due to the re-design of the emergency braking system.
I'll start with a simple fact and dive more deeply into it later for fear of creating a wall of text that no one will read.
I believe you might have the most captive audience you've ever had regarding elevator facts.

Type away!
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Spinnaker96
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In reply to CC09LawAg • 3:43p, 12/7/23
AG
The safest place to be, if you're entrapped, is inside the elevator. When fatalities occur during entrapments, it's most commonly because a passenger attempted to self evacuate. Attempting to exit the elevator may spur the elevator into motion again, and if you're in between the elevator and a stationary part of the building when that happens really bad things occur.

In all cases when entrapped, utilize the elevator's emergency phone. It will be directed to people who have been trained to respond to that sort of incident. If there is a medical emergency, ask them to call 911 or, failing that, do so yourself.

Many people who find themselves entrapped believe that they'll run out of air. That is a myth, as there is ventilation throughout the elevator cab.
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MsC2012
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In reply to Spinnaker96 • 3:48p, 12/7/23
AG
We're looking to hire an elevator consultant for a high rise, are you available for hire?
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Spinnaker96
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In reply to MsC2012 • 3:51p, 12/7/23
AG
Absolutely! If you'd like, you can shoot me a PM here and we can talk further!
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