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Any escaped lawyers out there?

5,009 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by GTBullitt68
CostanzaWallet
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2:44p, 10/7/19
AG
If so, how did you go about making the switch out of law practice and what do you now?

I've been practicing litigation about 4 years and have come to the conclusion that I'm gonna lose my mind if I come to work for the next 40 years and crank out the same documents and listen to the same depo testimony over and over again.

I've thought about getting into legal tech in a business development role, going in house for awhile, or getting out of the legal field altogether.

Any thoughts, advice, encouraging stories would be appreciated.
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JamesPShelley
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7:43p, 10/7/19

I made the switch from law... before it got started.

Many years ago I began my pursuit of a JD, starting in California. Moved to Washington... wasn't going to pay non-resident tuition... chose to wait the year before continuing my education.

Down the hall from me a young man moved in to an apartment. We became friends, and I watched as he navigated his first year of law school. It was during that year that I chose against pursuing law because, at the time, I thought, "That's the last thing I want to do. Sit at a desk pumping and pounding out documents all day."

He passed the bar, and he helped me successfully win a child custody case. I was his first client.

For the next many years I pursued business interests and, in 2006, hung out my writing shingle. Now, all day, I sit at my desk pumping and pounding out documents. Lol.

Wait. I have no advice.

Best wishes on your pursuits.
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CostanzaWallet
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In reply to JamesPShelley • 8:47a, 10/8/19
AG
JamesPShelley said:

I made the switch from law... before it got started.

Many years ago I began my pursuit of a JD, starting in California. Moved to Washington... wasn't going to pay non-resident tuition... chose to wait the year before continuing my education.

Down the hall from me a young man moved in to an apartment. We became friends, and I watched as he navigated his first year of law school. It was during that year that I chose against pursuing law because, at the time, I thought, "That's the last thing I want to do. Sit at a desk pumping and pounding out documents all day."

He passed the bar, and he helped me successfully win a child custody case. I was his first client.

For the next many years I pursued business interests and, in 2006, hung out my writing shingle. Now, all day, I sit at my desk pumping and pounding out documents. Lol.

Wait. I have no advice.

Best wishes on your pursuits.

Wish I would have done this. But, I was naive and young and thought I was gonna be Atticus Finch or something and never did any research on what lawyers actually do every day or gave any thought to the fact that the billable hour business model is an inefficient, soul-crushing racket

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JamesPShelley
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In reply to CostanzaWallet • 10:50a, 10/8/19
CostanzaWallet said:
JamesPShelley said:

I made the switch from law... before it got started.

Many years ago I began my pursuit of a JD, starting in California. Moved to Washington... wasn't going to pay non-resident tuition... chose to wait the year before continuing my education.

Down the hall from me a young man moved in to an apartment. We became friends, and I watched as he navigated his first year of law school. It was during that year that I chose against pursuing law because, at the time, I thought, "That's the last thing I want to do. Sit at a desk pumping and pounding out documents all day."

He passed the bar, and he helped me successfully win a child custody case. I was his first client.

For the next many years I pursued business interests and, in 2006, hung out my writing shingle. Now, all day, I sit at my desk pumping and pounding out documents. Lol.

Wait. I have no advice.

Best wishes on your pursuits.

Wish I would have done this. But, I was naive and young and thought I was gonna be Atticus Finch or something and never did any research on what lawyers actually do every day or gave any thought to the fact that the billable hour business model is an inefficient, soul-crushing racket

Have you considered hanging your own shingle?
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agz win
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8:20p, 10/8/19
AG
You'll be 30 before you know it and 40 soon after. Life goes by really fast and goes even faster as you grow older...and...you'll...never...get...those...years...or...your...youth...back.

Go find yourself by seeking your dreams and joys. Go travel the US or backpack Europe. Don't succumb to the pressures from others, family included. You'll have the law degree to fall back on if needed but think outside the box and and take some chances now while you can.
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CHOCOLATE CHIP TRIP
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11:09p, 10/8/19
I'm a lawyer at a big firm, pretty much all litigation and trial work. It gets old sometimes, but I'm damn good at it, and the money is damn good too. I've thought about transitioning out, and I still might after a few more years, but overall I'm pretty happy right now. If I left the firm, I'd probably go in house, but the pay cut would definitely suck.

If I was going to completely get out of the law practice, I'd probably go get an MBA from a reputable school and try to work my way into management somewhere.
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CostanzaWallet
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In reply to CHOCOLATE CHIP TRIP • 9:18a, 10/9/19
AG
The ol' golden handcuffs, that's how they get ya man

More power to you though, I just don't think I'm temperamentally suited enough to litigation to get enough satisfaction out of it to stay motivated for an entire career of doing it
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Goldie Wilson
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11:51a, 10/9/19
Watch listed
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average_joker
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8:00a, 10/19/19
AG
Go to flight school. I have more than a couple colleagues with a J.D.
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TxLawDawg
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10:10a, 10/19/19
AG
OP, where are you located?
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knoxtom
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12:05p, 10/20/19
I got out of the traditional practice of law and it is not easy.

The first thing you need to know/understand is how hard it is for someone to hire you. You are high paid, typically a pain in the ass, and have zero skills that apply to your new job. Most young attorneys carry tremendous egos, think they know more than their boss, and cause problems with other employees. While you may be the greatest person in the whole world, the perception is that you will be difficult and leave at the first opportunity to go back to the glorious practice of LAW!!!!


That being said, it took me years and years to get out, I had to go to entry level positions and it was the best decision I ever made.

Now, 15 years later, I own the company, I have a half dozen employees, and I really like what I do.

So here is some advice...

Figure out what you want to do, preferably something related to what you have been doing. If you have been doing insurance defense, find out about becoming an adjuster. If you have been doing real estate, try to become a landman. You can't just ask for anything, you need a plan so you can specifically target the job and tell them exactly why they should hire you.

Second, start talking to your clients who you are actually friends with. No one gets a job on indeed, those are filled before they are posted. You get jobs through your network. Take people you know out to lunch and ask for help. People help those who ask.

Last, if nothing else comes up, watch the businesses you work for and see if you can open something similar, then open up a competing business You need to be well capitalized for this route and know what you are doing.

Last idea, go work for TxDOT. They are desperate for a few attorneys and project managers and they don't do traditional law. Unfortunately they don't make much money either. Its a good transition from law to project management.


Just as an aside... Litigation is the biggest scam/joke/ass buster of any profession. You go in thinking you will get to win cases, find the smoking gun, and solve the mystery, but the reality of litigation is that the suit is filed and you have to prove you can play the game without a mistake long enough that they settle. There is no thinking to it, you just click the checklist and make sure everything is done on the timeline. It truly sucks and I think you are smart to get out while you can still like yourself.
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KALALL
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In reply to knoxtom • 7:51p, 10/20/19
AG
knoxtom said:
Just as an aside... Litigation is the biggest scam/joke/ass buster of any profession. You go in thinking you will get to win cases, find the smoking gun, and solve the mystery, but the reality of litigation is that the suit is filed and you have to prove you can play the game without a mistake long enough that they settle. There is no thinking to it, you just click the checklist and make sure everything is done on the timeline. It truly sucks and I think you are smart to get out while you can still like yourself.


This might be the best description of litigation I've ever read.

I'm no longer practicing, but I had a family business that had grown to the point of needing more help. I'd look for similar situations where your law degree would come in handy every once in a while, but your focus would be on business operations. Don't expect to be paid like a general counsel though.
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OkinTexas
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12:47a, 10/21/19
It's a shame that people go to school for so long to become an attorney and find they are unhappy about it. I went to school for quite awhile, but not for a J.D.

if you're smart enough to get that, I'm sure that you can do a lot of things.

Good luck.
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Dirty-8-thirty Ag
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7:17a, 10/21/19
AG
Become a landman?
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Astroag
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In reply to Dirty-8-thirty Ag • 7:51a, 10/21/19
AG
Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:
Become a landman?
Ehhhh...I'd recommend against this...too much swing in the market and its really down right now. Not a lot of work out there.
_______________________________________________________


If ya ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!!!
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Astroag
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7:55a, 10/21/19
AG
I remember when law school told us we could do anything with a law degree. The word-smithing started early. While we may be able to do anything, trying to convince an employer that a licensed attorney doesn't want practice law and for them to hire you for a non-atty role is almost impossible. As stated above, its a long, long journey and requires a strong network.
_______________________________________________________


If ya ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!!!
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CostanzaWallet
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In reply to Astroag • 8:53a, 10/21/19
AG
Yeah, i don't think my personality is suited to convincing sweet little old ladies to sell me their mineral rights for a paltry sum

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CostanzaWallet
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In reply to knoxtom • 8:54a, 10/21/19
AG
knoxtom said:



Just as an aside... Litigation is the biggest scam/joke/ass buster of any profession. You go in thinking you will get to win cases, find the smoking gun, and solve the mystery, but the reality of litigation is that the suit is filed and you have to prove you can play the game without a mistake long enough that they settle. There is no thinking to it, you just click the checklist and make sure everything is done on the timeline. It truly sucks and I think you are smart to get out while you can still like yourself.

This is dead on and exactly why I hate it. There's no strategy, just reacting to deadlines. It's all about the billable hour racket. I actually had a friend who was told on his first day of work for a "prominent" ID firm in dallas to be at work 8 hours a day but bill 10 to 10.5.

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Astroag
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In reply to CostanzaWallet • 9:51a, 10/21/19
AG
CostanzaWallet said:
Yeah, i don't think my personality is suited to convincing sweet little old ladies to sell me their mineral rights for a paltry sum

I understand the sentiment but this actually far from what they do today...Its gotten really sophisticated and strategic. That being said, the industry is not in a good spot right now and newer landfolks are usually some of the first to go...
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If ya ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!!!
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ThunderCougarFalconBird
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4:57p, 10/21/19
AG
Worst case, see if you can find your way into a practice you actually enjoy.

I've done the litigation thing and your reaction to it- that it sucks- is accurate. I'm in the ch. 11/restructuring practice and even though I still bill hours, my outlook on being a lawyer and what I do has improved 100 fold.

Best of luck whatever direction you go. And if you don't have a wife and kids, soon is the right time to make big moves.

And what one poster above said - maybe try flight school?
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vacating FL410
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In reply to average_joker • 5:10p, 10/21/19
average_joker said:
Go to flight school. I have more than a couple colleagues with a J.D.
I know lots of commercial pilots who are also attorneys.
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TxLawDawg
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In reply to ThunderCougarFalconBird • 10:31p, 10/21/19
AG
blindey said:
Worst case, see if you can find your way into a practice you actually enjoy.
This can make a huge difference. That's why I asked above where you were located, but didn't see an answer to that yet.
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TxLawDawg
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6:58a, 10/22/19
AG
This was posted this morning on the Texas Real Estate Lawyer Facebook page.

Quote:

TAMUS : A&M System Job Search

apps1.system.tamus.edu

I work at TAMU System, and we are hiring two non-attorney positions, landman and real estate analyst (both in College Station). Please pass on to anyone who might be interested.

[https://apps1.system.tamus.edu/jobsearch/JobDetails.aspx?ReqNumber=R-025192&LocationNumber=181](https://apps1.system.tamus.edu/jobsearch/JobDetails.aspx?ReqNumber=R-025192&LocationNumber=181)

[https://apps1.system.tamus.edu/jobsearch/JobDetails.aspx?ReqNumber=R-025189&LocationNumber=181](https://apps1.system.tamus.edu/jobsearch/JobDetails.aspx?ReqNumber=R-025189&LocationNumber=181)
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Ulrich
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In reply to vacating FL410 • 9:20a, 10/22/19
vacating FL410 said:
average_joker said:
Go to flight school. I have more than a couple colleagues with a J.D.
I know lots of commercial pilots who are also attorneys.

Who has a bigger ego, a pilot with a JD or an investment banker who collects vinyl?

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P.C. Principal
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In reply to Astroag • 5:53p, 10/23/19
Astroag said:
I remember when law school told us we could do anything with a law degree.
If there's any saying that makes me want to rip my hair out it's this one
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P.C. Principal
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In reply to knoxtom • 5:58p, 10/23/19
knoxtom said:
Just as an aside... Litigation is the biggest scam/joke/ass buster of any profession. You go in thinking you will get to win cases, find the smoking gun, and solve the mystery, but the reality of litigation is that the suit is filed and you have to prove you can play the game without a mistake long enough that they settle. There is no thinking to it, you just click the checklist and make sure everything is done on the timeline. It truly sucks and I think you are smart to get out while you can still like yourself.
So damn true. It's all one big chess game that gets drawn out as long as possible so the lawyers get paid.
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Astroag
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In reply to P.C. Principal • 6:27p, 10/23/19
AG
P.C. Principal said:
Astroag said:
I remember when law school told us we could do anything with a law degree.
If there's any saying that makes me want to rip my hair out it's this one
It is super sad and aggravating all at the same time. Disingenuous at best, imo...
_______________________________________________________


If ya ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!!!
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P.C. Principal
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In reply to Astroag • 8:14p, 10/23/19
Astroag said:
P.C. Principal said:
Astroag said:
I remember when law school told us we could do anything with a law degree.
If there's any saying that makes me want to rip my hair out it's this one
It is super sad and aggravating all at the same time. Disingenuous at best, imo...
I can agree that there are career paths available for JDs outside the practice of law. Ones where your legal background would be an asset.

I just have a huge problem with the word "anything" being thrown around. Maybe they say that because they've met CEOs or business execs who are attorneys
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CostanzaWallet
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In reply to P.C. Principal • 8:51a, 10/24/19
AG
Law schools say it because its another way to hide the ball on actual employment prospects for law grads and still take that sweet moolah from students haha

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knoxtom
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12:04p, 10/24/19
So now we are ragging on Law Schools? Meh, I think law school was great and probably worth the money. Taught me how to socialize with people, taught me how to think, made me grow up a little. Wish I was more mature going in and had a little discipline, but oh well. So they puff a little and tell you that you will be rich beyond your dreams... of well, they tell that to aspiring rappers and 7th grade football players as well. It's caleld sales and everyone does it.

Here is some advice.

The path to both wealth and happiness in the modern American economy is having people work for you. Doesn't matter the industry, you can be a doctor, lawyer, sell gas, deal meth, whatever, if you are the boss and run the biz well, you will make a bunch of money and like it. Even practicing medicine now-a-days has little to do with treating patients and a lot to do with running a business.

So look into what your quickest route is into ownership of something, especially if it allows you to leave a legacy for your wife and kids. Does litigation suck - you better believe it. Does owning a litigation firm suck? Probably not unless you are still doing the litigation.

We are thirty posts into this thread and you still haven't said what you CAN do. Have you thought about that? You want out but you don't really know what you want to do. How do you know something else will be better? Maybe you should start putting together a plan and maybe you should start by really thinking about what skills you have.
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PFG
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In reply to knoxtom • 9:00a, 11/4/19
AG
Quote:
Here is some advice.

The path to both wealth and happiness in the modern American economy is having people work for you. Doesn't matter the industry, you can be a doctor, lawyer, sell gas, deal meth, whatever, if you are the boss and run the biz well, you will make a bunch of money and like it. Even practicing medicine now-a-days has little to do with treating patients and a lot to do with running a business.

So look into what your quickest route is into ownership of something, especially if it allows you to leave a legacy for your wife and kids. Does litigation suck - you better believe it. Does owning a litigation firm suck? Probably not unless you are still doing the litigation.

We are thirty posts into this thread and you still haven't said what you CAN do. Have you thought about that? You want out but you don't really know what you want to do. How do you know something else will be better? Maybe you should start putting together a plan and maybe you should start by really thinking about what skills you have.


This might be the most inspiring thing I've read on here.

Well said. Thanks.
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knoxtom
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In reply to PFG • 10:28a, 11/6/19
PFG said:
Quote:
Here is some advice.

The path to both wealth and happiness in the modern American economy is having people work for you. Doesn't matter the industry, you can be a doctor, lawyer, sell gas, deal meth, whatever, if you are the boss and run the biz well, you will make a bunch of money and like it. Even practicing medicine now-a-days has little to do with treating patients and a lot to do with running a business.

So look into what your quickest route is into ownership of something, especially if it allows you to leave a legacy for your wife and kids. Does litigation suck - you better believe it. Does owning a litigation firm suck? Probably not unless you are still doing the litigation.

We are thirty posts into this thread and you still haven't said what you CAN do. Have you thought about that? You want out but you don't really know what you want to do. How do you know something else will be better? Maybe you should start putting together a plan and maybe you should start by really thinking about what skills you have.


This might be the most inspiring thing I've read on here.

Well said. Thanks.

Nice of you to say, thanks.

I tried for a long time to escape traditional law. I really hated the job, the hustle, the game, etc. Finally just flat out quit and went all the way to the bottom in industries I knew nothing at all about, and slowly came out of it.

In hindsight, I did it all wrong.

As an attorney you CAN transition into other things, but having them somewhat related to your current practice helps. I could have gone into title, city management, insurance, etc. but I never had a plan. I just wanted out and it was probably pretty obvious. The message I was sending was probably that I wasn't good at my job and was being pushed out, because I was desperate.

Figure out where you want to be, research the path, and put it in motion. Most of those business owners out there didn't inherit the biz, they built it. Just gotta have the balls to sacrifice the short term for the long.

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GTBullitt68
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10:34a, 11/7/19
AG
If you're looking to get into a more compliance and regulatory role, we are hiring at my company in Dallas. We're a fund administrator for the alternative asset industry.

We are planning on investing a lot of resources into growing this division and it's the perfect time to get in on the bottom floor. Our company has been around since 2006 and stresses a work life balance. If this is something you'd be interested in, my email is username at gmail.com.

More info about the job can be found here: https://texags.com/forums/18/topics/3074038
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