My nephew is in 10th grade and thinking harder about college. We live on the East Coast and are a long way from Texas, so A&M is not a realistic option. Also, his family cannot help him much with $$$$. I am wondering how important the ACT and SAT are now. I know it varies by school, but we are trying to figure out if it makes sense to push hard for a high score to open scholarships. He is top quarter at a top suburban HS. I think for him community college is a good start followed by a state school. Any thoughts are welcome on what levers are best to maximize his chances: higher class rank or high SAT/ACT.
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importance of ACT and SAT now
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Last: 9 mo ago by bmks270
Khan SAT prep is free.
But I recommend plumbing. For reals.
But I recommend plumbing. For reals.
They do make good money.
Good SAT scores is auto merit scholarship at a lot of decently ranked national universities and they usually come with perks and a honors college. IMO, it is the most cost effective way to get a quality safety school on the cheap.
Elite schools with a holistic approach can be too much of an unknown , basically you need good test scores , good aps, good class ranking, good essays, good extracurriculars and have cured cancer in your spare time.
Elite schools with a holistic approach can be too much of an unknown , basically you need good test scores , good aps, good class ranking, good essays, good extracurriculars and have cured cancer in your spare time.
I think the real question is what is he wanting to do because it isn't a simple answer. If he is a strong student and is wanting to study a STEM Major he should absolutely put focus on it. If he is 10th grade he has likely taken a PSAT so you should have a decent idea about where he stands. If he wants to go for National Merit then it is critical but that's a high bar if he isn't close. A prep service can definitely help, my son used Avant Garde from the board and he probably got about a 150-200 point boost from it. It's an investment but it was very helpful. The advice from Robb is also exceptional and I do a lot of my own research, he knows what he is talking about.alfordjo said:
My nephew is in 10th grade and thinking harder about college. We live on the East Coast and are a long way from Texas, so A&M is not a realistic option. Also, his family cannot help him much with $$$$. I am wondering how important the ACT and SAT are now. I know it varies by school, but we are trying to figure out if it makes sense to push hard for a high score to open scholarships. He is top quarter at a top suburban HS. I think for him community college is a good start followed by a state school. Any thoughts are welcome on what levers are best to maximize his chances: higher class rank or high SAT/ACT.
Some colleges weight SAT more heavily than others. Some are obsessed with it, many don't care at all. Most look at the Holistic process now which doesn't mean what most think it means. Essentially many colleges know you can "game the system" for GPA and SAT to an extent with the proper prep so they can't be relied on the way they once were. Instead they are typically just one leg of a multi legged stool to go with Extra Curriculars and activities, AP Classes and college credit, and essays. It's even more that way at elite schools because they know that a majority of applicants can handle the academics there but they are still admitting 20% or less so it's very complicated. The most important thing is having a cohesive "story" that expleains your qualifications, why you are going to be successful, and most of all who you are and why you will add value. They don't want clones, they want something interesting. I've listened to dozens of podcasts from Admissions folks from elite schools and they all say the same thing.
The SAT/ACT thing along with GPA is more of a barrier of entry. Realistically above a 1450 it becomes diminishing returns, maybe 1500. The value for instance of spending lots of time and money going from a 1500 to a 1550 is not there. SAT is primarily an IQ test and logic test, it's not necessarily difficult material it's just how do you process and understand it. If you are in the 1450-1500 range you are already above the bar and what they care about is the rest of the story.
I would argue you will raise more eyebrows with all 4's and 5's in STEM AP Exams than a few points on your SAT and taking Calculus BC and Physics B (essentially the 2nd year of both and 2 of the most difficult AP Classes). You simply can't fake those and you can't slide by, you have to be a serious student and it shows you are likely to succeed just about anywhere in college. You can't fake your way through an AP Exam. You have to work hard and study outside of a very rare few.
I would put your focus on what it is your kid wants to do or thinks they may want to do and find ways to expose them to it. If they have clubs at school that's great but if not you may have to get creative. If they want to go into Medicine do HOSA or have them find ways to volunteer or work around clinics or hospitals. If they want to go into business have them try DECA or get a job that actually requires some thought or start a little side business. If they want to go into Law then have them meet with some lawyers and maybe work around a law office doing something. If they want to go into Engineering try and do something like Robotics and any type of classes around it and build things, maybe get a 3D Printer or take a coding class. Use the Summers to build that resume and explore. They will find things they get super excited about or find it wasn't what they thought. Much better to do that in HS than in college if possible.
A great SAT/ACT score never hurts but it definitely isn't a magic bullet either.
Aggie 93:
I believe your son is high achieving and is looking at colleges now?? How is his decision making process going?
My son has so far gotten an admit into UGA but deferrals from Georgetown and U Chicago. Still has lots of other schools that haven't released decisions yet, as Restrictive Early Admission at Georgetown sort of screw him. But those deferrals did hit him. I probe him all of the time about his thoughts about going to UGA if it came down to only that acceptance (hopefully it won't), but his heart is really not into that school. He has spent way too many years hearing kids bark and give their "Gaaaw Daaawgs!", especially in a thick Georgia drawl, to get excited about it. The price is definitely right there, though. HOPE scholarship would cover almost all tuition!
At this point, and it is obviously early in the game, I can't see that his ACT score (and National Merit status) has really opened up any doors at any place he wants to attend. He did put some effort into attaining his score, so I hope it is not time and effort wasted. Hopefully this spring things will change.
I believe your son is high achieving and is looking at colleges now?? How is his decision making process going?
My son has so far gotten an admit into UGA but deferrals from Georgetown and U Chicago. Still has lots of other schools that haven't released decisions yet, as Restrictive Early Admission at Georgetown sort of screw him. But those deferrals did hit him. I probe him all of the time about his thoughts about going to UGA if it came down to only that acceptance (hopefully it won't), but his heart is really not into that school. He has spent way too many years hearing kids bark and give their "Gaaaw Daaawgs!", especially in a thick Georgia drawl, to get excited about it. The price is definitely right there, though. HOPE scholarship would cover almost all tuition!
At this point, and it is obviously early in the game, I can't see that his ACT score (and National Merit status) has really opened up any doors at any place he wants to attend. He did put some effort into attaining his score, so I hope it is not time and effort wasted. Hopefully this spring things will change.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Thanks for asking about my son. He's a Junior so still some time to go. SAT is solid but he is retaking one last time in March at school. He had a bad day on his PSAT (he's Type 1 and had a Blood Sugar spike that didn't help) and is going to just miss NM but will likely be Commended He's taking a really aggressive class schedule (5APs and a Medical Interventions class that's definitely AP level) so it's keeping him very busy as he has a lot of EC's as well and is in leadership in all of them. Top 4% of his class so that takes the drama out of the admissions at A&M and Texas. Mainly just trying to finish out the resume and set things up.Kool said:
Aggie 93:
I believe your son is high achieving and is looking at colleges now?? How is his decision making process going?
My son has so far gotten an admit into UGA but deferrals from Georgetown and U Chicago. Still has lots of other schools that haven't released decisions yet, as Restrictive Early Admission at Georgetown sort of screw him. But those deferrals did hit him. I probe him all of the time about his thoughts about going to UGA if it came down to only that acceptance (hopefully it won't), but his heart is really not into that school. He has spent way too many years hearing kids bark and give their "Gaaaw Daaawgs!", especially in a thick Georgia drawl, to get excited about it. The price is definitely right there, though. HOPE scholarship would cover almost all tuition!
At this point, and it is obviously early in the game, I can't see that his ACT score (and National Merit status) has really opened up any doors at any place he wants to attend. He did put some effort into attaining his score, so I hope it is not time and effort wasted. Hopefully this spring things will change.
We toured Stanford, Duke, UNC/NC State (they have a joint program for Biomed Eng which is his interest) and A&M. Still plan to go to Georgia Tech and maybe Rice and we will go by UT since we are in Austin. That said I've been the one trying to get him to look around but his heart is in College Station and of course that's fine by me
. We met with the folks in the Dept and he got a student tour and it just fit, he's got a lot of interest in the EnMed program. I will say that when you do tours of the actual facilities and talk to the people in the Departments vs the Admissions folks you can see dramatic differences between schools better than anything. I've found it so much more valuable than doing a regular campus tour. In terms of Engineering though A&M truly is impressive, forget about rankings and all the other mess, they really have it where it counts and for the value it's hard to beat. Probably the only thing I wish they had was a way to qualify out of the ETAM process and having a better Honors program with more benefits.Really hoping for scholarships but without the NM that's going to be a challenge at A&M so we will see. Also want to keep the options open as you never know.
Georgia's a great school with a strong network, especially in the Southeast. I'd check on it but I believe if you get a deferral it releases you from the Restrictions on early admit at most schools. I'm sure he will be be successful whatever he chooses though, sounds like a great kid!
If your son loves A&M and wants to go into engineering, that's awesome. His class rank will easily get him in - done deal! I would assume there is a lot more scholarship money at A&M than just what's given to National Merit kids. I would definitely look at Georgia Tech, they turn out absolutely amazing engineers. My wife went there for a second degree, and I can tell you that (back in the good old days) when she was looking for work, the GA Tech career center was absolutely amazing in helping her write up her resume, apply, find companies that were hiring, etc. You have to wrap your head around living in Midtown in Atlanta, though, not exactly everyone's "cup of tea". GA Tech also has a very bad reputation for being an absolute grind, but they seem to be trying to move beyond that now.aggie93 said:
We toured Stanford, Duke, UNC/NC State (they have a joint program for Biomed Eng which is his interest) and A&M. Still plan to go to Georgia Tech and maybe Rice and we will go by UT since we are in Austin. That said I've been the one trying to get him to look around but his heart is in College Station and of course that's fine by me
Georgia's a great school with a strong network, especially in the Southeast. I'd check on it but I believe if you get a deferral it releases you from the Restrictions on early admit at most schools. I'm sure he will be be successful whatever he chooses though, sounds like a great kid!
As far as having a sugar spike on the day that he took the PSAT, that is unfortunate. That being said, however, dealing with IDDM will make for a tremendous Common App essay should he decide to apply elsewhere. When life gives you lemons, make some lemonade.
My son wants to do Poli Sci, likely with a business minor. At this point, he seems fairly intent on wanting to go to law school. He hates urban Atlanta, they don't really focus on Politics, and, frankly, my wife has probably "scared him off" from GA Tech by reliving how hard it was back in the day. UGA is a very good school, and it is getting better all of the time. I will try to dig up the stats the school sent when he was given early admission - I thought they were pretty stout. That being said, he has put a lot of time and effort into his resume and his scores, and if he gets in somewhere that allows him to make lots of connections, I will be willing to foot the bill to go there. Not happy about it - just willing.
Edit: profile of UGA in-state early admissions
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Just wondering: Do out of state applicants get an automatic scholarship if they are in the Corps? How good are these scholarships?
I'd pick a school that is considered excellent in the field one is pursuing. Of course most change majors before they graduate.
I'd pick a school that is considered excellent in the field one is pursuing. Of course most change majors before they graduate.
Maybe these? I will be looking at these in more detail for my son next year.
aggie93 said:I think the real question is what is he wanting to do because it isn't a simple answer. If he is a strong student and is wanting to study a STEM Major he should absolutely put focus on it. If he is 10th grade he has likely taken a PSAT so you should have a decent idea about where he stands. If he wants to go for National Merit then it is critical but that's a high bar if he isn't close. A prep service can definitely help, my son used Avant Garde from the board and he probably got about a 150-200 point boost from it. It's an investment but it was very helpful. The advice from Robb is also exceptional and I do a lot of my own research, he knows what he is talking about.alfordjo said:
My nephew is in 10th grade and thinking harder about college. We live on the East Coast and are a long way from Texas, so A&M is not a realistic option. Also, his family cannot help him much with $$$$. I am wondering how important the ACT and SAT are now. I know it varies by school, but we are trying to figure out if it makes sense to push hard for a high score to open scholarships. He is top quarter at a top suburban HS. I think for him community college is a good start followed by a state school. Any thoughts are welcome on what levers are best to maximize his chances: higher class rank or high SAT/ACT.
Some colleges weight SAT more heavily than others. Some are obsessed with it, many don't care at all. Most look at the Holistic process now which doesn't mean what most think it means. Essentially many colleges know you can "game the system" for GPA and SAT to an extent with the proper prep so they can't be relied on the way they once were. Instead they are typically just one leg of a multi legged stool to go with Extra Curriculars and activities, AP Classes and college credit, and essays. It's even more that way at elite schools because they know that a majority of applicants can handle the academics there but they are still admitting 20% or less so it's very complicated. The most important thing is having a cohesive "story" that expleains your qualifications, why you are going to be successful, and most of all who you are and why you will add value. They don't want clones, they want something interesting. I've listened to dozens of podcasts from Admissions folks from elite schools and they all say the same thing.
The SAT/ACT thing along with GPA is more of a barrier of entry. Realistically above a 1450 it becomes diminishing returns, maybe 1500. The value for instance of spending lots of time and money going from a 1500 to a 1550 is not there. SAT is primarily an IQ test and logic test, it's not necessarily difficult material it's just how do you process and understand it. If you are in the 1450-1500 range you are already above the bar and what they care about is the rest of the story.
I would argue you will raise more eyebrows with all 4's and 5's in STEM AP Exams than a few points on your SAT and taking Calculus BC and Physics B (essentially the 2nd year of both and 2 of the most difficult AP Classes). You simply can't fake those and you can't slide by, you have to be a serious student and it shows you are likely to succeed just about anywhere in college. You can't fake your way through an AP Exam. You have to work hard and study outside of a very rare few.
I would put your focus on what it is your kid wants to do or thinks they may want to do and find ways to expose them to it. If they have clubs at school that's great but if not you may have to get creative. If they want to go into Medicine do HOSA or have them find ways to volunteer or work around clinics or hospitals. If they want to go into business have them try DECA or get a job that actually requires some thought or start a little side business. If they want to go into Law then have them meet with some lawyers and maybe work around a law office doing something. If they want to go into Engineering try and do something like Robotics and any type of classes around it and build things, maybe get a 3D Printer or take a coding class. Use the Summers to build that resume and explore. They will find things they get super excited about or find it wasn't what they thought. Much better to do that in HS than in college if possible.
A great SAT/ACT score never hurts but it definitely isn't a magic bullet either.
My personal experience passing 9 out of 10 AP tests is this. (Including a score
of 5 on BC calculus).
Kids who applied early/summer admit and preferred choice got accepted to a particular state university. Similar profile to me, but I passed all but one of my AP tests and many of these students did not pass at the high rate I did.
I didn't apply for summer or put this school as preferred, and I didn't get accepted. It was pretty surprising to me and I remember thinking to myself "What the hell, I passed more of my AP exams than all of these other bozo class mates and they all got accepted and I didn't?"
Also, two of the smartest people I know, but different high school years than me, also didn't get accepted. They also didn't do early summer / preferred choice. Maybe we all had crappy essays.
My conclusion, holistic admissions to the more prestigious universities is literally random. And they admit based on early / preferred choice. Passing AP exams, that seems like it hardly matters.
My experience has been that holistic admissions results in some head scratching admissions and rejections.
In the end, a less prestigious state school accepted me into the honors college and gave me 32 credits for my AP exams so I started as a sophomore.
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