Kool said:

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Last weekend I met a couple of college freshmen, one attending Cal Polytech and one at Denver University, that my son was speaking with. In discussing the application process with them, they both remarked that schools were still having standardized testing be optional. That apparently started during COVID, but I was very surprised to hear that schools are continuing in this way. This seems to be quite a risky proposal. A grade from one school is not the same as a grade from another school. I wonder if this will continue to be the way schools do things, or if the pendulum will go back to standardized testing being the

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Test optional isn't really test optional, you are just saying you don't think your scores are good enough to help you. From what I have read, the acceptence rate is generally lower for test optional kids. Also, Schools use it as a means to get more applicants and make them seem more selective.

Schools can still do a apples to apples comparison with out it. Things like AP tests , class rank (combined with quality of HS) can tell you a bunch too. Anyway, SAT isn't a perfect way to compare kids either, some kids have the time/money to do a lot of prep and take the tests multiple times, some don't.

Another Doug said:

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Kool said:

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Last weekend I met a couple of college freshmen, one attending Cal Polytech and one at Denver University, that my son was speaking with. In discussing the application process with them, they both remarked that schools were still having standardized testing be optional. That apparently started during COVID, but I was very surprised to hear that schools are continuing in this way. This seems to be quite a risky proposal. A grade from one school is not the same as a grade from another school. I wonder if this will continue to be the way schools do things, or if the pendulum will go back to standardized testing being the

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Test optional isn't really test optional, you are just saying you don't think your scores are good enough to help you. From what I have read, the acceptence rate is generally lower for test optional kids. Also, Schools use it as a means to get more applicants and make them seem more selective.

Schools can still do a apples to apples comparison with out it. Things like AP tests , class rank (combined with quality of HS) can tell you a bunch too. Anyway, SAT isn't a perfect way to compare kids either, some kids have the time/money to do a lot of prep and take the tests multiple times, some don't.

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Thanks. Do schools have national data that they purchase to determine rigor of different high school curricula? If not, how could a small college know what a 3.8 from a small high school across the country means? Especially if they haven't had a kid apply to their university from that high school in a good while if ever?

I am not sure if there is a common way all the colleges do it, but there are some basic metrics that you can get form accreditted schools. USNEWS even have rankings for High Schools like they do colleges.

Thanks for the feedback. He is interested in A&M but is really into band (plays tuba) and is not sure about the Corps. To be honest, I'm not sure the Corps is right for him but he's got a few months to narrow his choices after we take a few more trips.

Cool I have a jr right now too, no idea where she will go at this point. She scored around what your son did on psat and has a 1480 on SAT already.

Kool said:

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Another Doug said:

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Kool said:

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Last weekend I met a couple of college freshmen, one attending Cal Polytech and one at Denver University, that my son was speaking with. In discussing the application process with them, they both remarked that schools were still having standardized testing be optional. That apparently started during COVID, but I was very surprised to hear that schools are continuing in this way. This seems to be quite a risky proposal. A grade from one school is not the same as a grade from another school. I wonder if this will continue to be the way schools do things, or if the pendulum will go back to standardized testing being the

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Test optional isn't really test optional, you are just saying you don't think your scores are good enough to help you. From what I have read, the acceptence rate is generally lower for test optional kids. Also, Schools use it as a means to get more applicants and make them seem more selective.

Schools can still do a apples to apples comparison with out it. Things like AP tests , class rank (combined with quality of HS) can tell you a bunch too. Anyway, SAT isn't a perfect way to compare kids either, some kids have the time/money to do a lot of prep and take the tests multiple times, some don't.

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Thanks. Do schools have national data that they purchase to determine rigor of different high school curricula? If not, how could a small college know what a 3.8 from a small high school across the country means? Especially if they haven't had a kid apply to their university from that high school in a good while if ever?

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Colleges have volumes of historical data from the high schools that students apply from, which allows them to understand how "rigorous" a school's academics are and predict the success of the students from those schools. So yeah, colleges use a student's academic record as one data point to predict a student's potential for success.

Nope. Not talking about aid or scholarships or ATM. Just stating the obvious. Top test scores are great. That's usually a side effect of doing well in more advanced courses. Those kinds of students are also the type that investigate the better schools. They figure out they need national awards in extracurriculars, and some college research hours before graduating high school, or maybe certifications, or work experience, or more volunteering, and certainly some great recommendations.

Obviously not all students with great PSAT scores fit that description. The pie only gets bigger for those types in college. Top one percent graduate admissions test scores are an even smaller slice of pie. Graduating with highest honors is also a minimum for some aspirations. I'm glad I was an engineering slacker.

Congratulations to all the great test scores. The harder they work, the better they do, the harder they work,…

Where are you going with your post? Also, my reply was to your statement about scores being "one tiny overhyped slice of the pie," in which I clarified that there could be many benefits to scoring well, especially if you're willing to broaden your college search outside of Texas A&M.

What you suggest in your most recent post only applies to a small fraction of high school students and is only intended for those looking at the most selective of schools in the US.

Overall, PSAT scores provide students and families with good information that can help them start conversations about college, and I started this thread to help others on this forum receive sound college prep information.

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I started this thread to help others on this forum receive sound college prep information.

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I only reply because of your stated good intentions. The sound college prep information that I added to this thread is that test scores are only one over hyped slice of the pie. The test score and every other piece of the pie just need to be good enough that they don't get you eliminated. Hopefully some parts will help a student stand out enough to get what they are after.

To me that seems no less obvious than "better test scores can be beneficial". I also tried to point out the obvious that test scores are a reflection of the students experience. Some schools offer more advanced classes and some kids expend more effort in those classes. All the kids I know in the 36/1600 range maxed out and aced their AP classes. They are a small minority of students. However, they are the majority of the top test scorers.

Where is that going? Thought that was obvious also. Don't worry about the kids making the perfect scores. They are typically at schools with better teachers and more AP options in a highly competitive environment. I could argue those schools are only beneficial to the top 2-5% of the students. Not going there, still failing with simple and obvious.

Yes, some schools offer stuff just on scores. Catch 22, most of the kids getting offers on test scores aren't interested in any of the schools that make those offers. I don't know a single kid that took that path. Zero. I do know several kids that attend sub prime schools to chase sports dreams. You can't just focus on sports either. Yes, kids can greatly boost their scores with prep and that can make up for a less rigorous curriculum. Yes, kids should make an effort to make the best score they can. You can say the same for grades and extracurriculars. Hopefully all that is obvious.

The two kids I know that went MIT didn't get in because of perfect grades and test scores. It was the 6A baseball and swimming. Stanford kid scored the highest grade in the nation on a statistics test. A girl I know got in to Boston U solely on how high a bar was when she pole vaulted over it. Columbia requires a high school GPA of 3.45 if you can fill a spot of need on their baseball team. One girl was on the local news for not getting into any of her top school choices with perfect test scores in both the ACT and SAT, plus she was valedictorian. Many kids I know with mediocre grades and test scores matriculated to ATM and tu. They excelled in other areas. Many more with top grades and test scores ended up at the two flagships also. Not trying to minimize two good universities.

It's so obvious that it can't be explained. Celebrate good scores just like you celebrate any other achievement. Strive for the best score you can get, the best grades possible, the best extracurriculars you can excel in, the best essays you can write, and the best recommendations you can get. Don't worry if you don't get NM. Post the score if you want to fill your mailbox, which is fun. I'm all out of crayon.

Thanks for the info already on this thread.

Our kid got a 1500, with an index of 225 in Texas. I'm not quite sure, but I believe he opted out of some communication when he made his College Board profile. Will A&M and other Texas schools have him on their radar somehow, or do we need to reach out to them? Specifically A&M, to get him in touch with the groups discussed earlier that seem to reach out and welcome NMSF kids?

Also, someone asked above about the other scholarships like the Brown scholarship... any intel on those?

Thank you!
Mrs. TexasAggie98

TexasAggie98 said:

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Thanks for the info already on this thread.

Our kid got a 1500, with an index of 225 in Texas. I'm not quite sure, but I believe he opted out of some communication when he made his College Board profile. Will A&M and other Texas schools have him on their radar somehow, or do we need to reach out to them? Specifically A&M, to get him in touch with the groups discussed earlier that seem to reach out and welcome NMSF kids?

Also, someone asked above about the other scholarships like the Brown scholarship... any intel on those?

Thank you!
Mrs. TexasAggie98

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Many college applications have sections where students can list their academic awards, specifically National Merit. So I wouldn't fret much about your son opting out of the communication; for those schools that prioritize NM, there will be multiple ways for them to identify him.

TexasAggie98 said:

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Thanks for the info already on this thread.

Our kid got a 1500, with an index of 225 in Texas. I'm not quite sure, but I believe he opted out of some communication when he made his College Board profile. Will A&M and other Texas schools have him on their radar somehow, or do we need to reach out to them? Specifically A&M, to get him in touch with the groups discussed earlier that seem to reach out and welcome NMSF kids?

Also, someone asked above about the other scholarships like the Brown scholarship... any intel on those?

Thank you!
Mrs. TexasAggie98

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No, I believe all schools get the NMSF list because we got mail tailored for semi-finalists from a lot of places. That won't happen until finalists are announced. Also, I think A&M only reached out to us in person because we lived in CS and it was easy. They probably don't do that everywhere.

A&M scholarships for NMF/NMSF are automatic so all he has to do to get it is make A&M his "first choice" with the NM people, and he can change that at any time up until the end of his sr. year.

UT won't care about NMF enough to give money. In my research the two best NM options in Texas are A&M and UTD. A&M gives less money but has a better all around College Experience and the Aggie Network. UTD has really smart kids, pays for everything and has good honors college perks, they will give you a private tour with a current NM scholar if you are interested.

Outside of Texas the Florida public schools are the best for NMF scholarships

double b said:

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His ACT score is very good and converts to a 1510 SAT score. IMO, I would recommend taking the ACT one more time in February to achieve a 35; however, a 34 will help toward his admission decision. Also, unfortunately, Georgetown does NOT superscore for the ACT.

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Why Georgetown? There are innumerable other good / great schools that would reward your student's hard work and diligence in other ways. My son's ACT was a 33, and he got a full ride (after we had saved for his college education). My daughter --- who thought she was smarter than anyone (including her older brother) at the age of 18 --- scored a 32 without help. She got pissed that her allegedly dumber older brother beat here, so she took the ACT (with me cracking the whip), and she scored a 34. What did she get from UT? $5,000. She turned down a full ride from Arkansas and generous offers from Georgia and Auburn. Ugh. There are a lot of great choices out there. I love the fact that you doing your best to help your student achieve his dreams, but sometimes a kid's dreams are not always well-thought or most practical/logical. May I suggest that you and he consider other great options?

TexasAggie81 said:

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double b said:

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His ACT score is very good and converts to a 1510 SAT score. IMO, I would recommend taking the ACT one more time in February to achieve a 35; however, a 34 will help toward his admission decision. Also, unfortunately, Georgetown does NOT superscore for the ACT.

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Why Georgetown? There are innumerable other good / great schools that would reward your student's hard work and diligence in other ways. My son's ACT was a 33, and he got a full ride (after we had saved for his college education). My daughter --- who thought she was smarter than anyone (including her older brother) at the age of 18 --- scored a 32 without help. She got pissed that her allegedly dumber older brother beat here, so she took the ACT (with me cracking the whip), and she scored a 34. What did she get from UT? $5,000. She turned down a full ride from Arkansas and generous offers from Georgia and Auburn. Ugh. There are a lot of great choices out there. I love the fact that you doing your best to help your student achieve his dreams, but sometimes a kid's dreams are not always well-thought or most practical/logical. May I suggest that you and he consider other great options?

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Why Georgetown? I responded to another post stating their student's dream school was Georgetown. I currently have a client there studying at the McDonough school of business. His interest was in international corporate finance, and Georgetown was an excellent fit for what he wanted to do. Each student and their family is different, and so are their college choices.

double b said:

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Here's the most composite list you will find on the internet, but it is a little outdated. However, it would help to refine your college search.

Selective Colleges Offering National Merit Scholarships

Regarding your son's 224, he's a shoo-in for NM Finalist unless he drops the ball academically or with this SAT score.

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I am told my son's PSAT score will qualify him for Semifinalist status by someone who won't reveal their sources to me, is not an idiot at all, is connected to the academic world in my state, and claims to know the cutoff for our state. How high does your 'confirming" score need to be on an SAT or an ACT to meet Finalist status once you're given Semifinalist status? And why do only half of Finalists, then, go on to become Merit Scholars? Seems odd to me. Thanks in advance.

Look at the link in this post. There isn't any state in the last three years that has needed higher than 224 to qualify. Georgia has only needed 219. 100% guaranteed your son qualifies.

Not sure what the confirming SAT/ACT score needs to be. But essays are a part of it, along with the school grades.

From what I understand, there's really no difference between a Finalist and an Award Winner. The Award Winner just happened to receive a scholarship from a corporation or school. So if your son decides to go to Georgia and they offer nothing for NMS kids, then he is not an Award Winner. But if he decides to go to A&M and receives the scholarships they provide for Merit Scholars, then he is an Award Winner. If this is correct, then a Finalist is as high as you can achieve and there is no difference. School choice shouldn't be a factor in someone being able to call themselves an Award Winner just because of that, or because they have a parent that works at one of the corporations that provides scholarships. Somone with more knowledge can correct me if I am wrong.

That helps, thanks. The scholarship, if they get one, is only $2,500. What is more important to me is that some schools offer competitive scholarships or significantly discounted tuition to National Merit kids. And, of course, if he wants to go to a more competitive school, I would imagine that would help. 219 is exactly where my source said Georgia will be set for the upcoming class.
Gracias

Finalist is all you need to worry about, and a large majority of the SF make Finalist. My kid had an OK GPA (~top 25% in HS) and a great SAT (the year NM people didn't look at SAT) and got Finalist .

$2,500 nice, but the main perk is the crazy scholarships some good schools offer. I recommend using those as your "safety" schools when applying.

Yeah, I don't know how difficult it is to receive one of the $2,500 scholarships, but that's not something I would care about for my kid. It would be we're either trying to find a school to pay for all, or nearly all, costs, or we're not. I don't know how much in between there is for various schools.

I'm not sure what Doug means by his "safety" school so maybe he can clarify that.

I know for Tech and A&M you have to list them as the #1 school for NMS purposes. You can't list A&M #1, and then since you couldn't get a full ride with other scholarships in combination with NMS, decide to go to Tech because they offer a full cost of attendance since A&M was listed as your #1 choice. You do have until May, according to others, to enter your #1 school, so you can probably shop the best offers and then make the decision as late as possible. I don't know how many others are like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if most, if not all, of the ones that provide anything meaningful are.

By safety schools, I mean even if your kid has thier heart a certain big name school, at the very least get accepted to one or more of the schools that offer the great deal for NMF. That way you can visit both and make sure the big name is worth paying $100,000-$250,000 more.

Thanks to you both. I just didn't want my son to get to the Finalist stage, not get named a Merit Scholar, then have a school say, "No, we only offer those deals to Merit Scholars, not Merit Finalists". Seemed arbitrary.

One pretty nice deal I found was that USC (the real one) offers basically a 50% scholarship to National Merit kids. Almost makes it affordable!!! We live in GA. Neither UGA nor Georgia Tech gives you a damn thing, but we have a couple of lottery funded scholarship programs for kids here that can take the cost of attendance down really low. For better or for worse, they have made UGA competitive for admission (GA Tech always was).

We just went through all of this last year, so I'll answer some questions as I provide our experience.

Our oldest child had a PSAT selection index of 220 which Art from the Compass Education Group (google it - his blog post on each class is excellent) predicted would qualify for semi-finalist in Texas. It was pretty nerve-wracking waiting until confirmations started leaking out in late August. This same blog post will start confirming (in the comments) what the cutoffs are in different states before the school principal will let your student know (because home school students' parents are their principals, so they will get the confirming letter directly and report to Art), so keep your eye on the comments of this blog post in mid-late August. The school receives the letter about semi-finalists - not the student.

Meanwhile, your student has to have a confirming SAT or ACT score. Confirming means is high enough to achieve the commended status (which I believe is known by now and I think is a selection index of 207 for class of 2024 - again - check the blogs on the Compass Education Group website because it explains how to calculate the selection index score for both SAT or ACT. The confirming test score has to be sent to National Merit Scholarship Corporation (and they have their own code just like the colleges and universities do).

Applying for colleges - I would not advise your child wait to apply to colleges until NMSF is confirmed because that doesn't happen until September, and at TAMU, applying as soon as possible is important for majors like business and engineering. Mays is kind of a first come, first served so far as in-state top 10% auto-admits go, so applying as soon as applications are available is important if that is the desired major because Mays will fill. Our child wanted engineering, and all engineering applicants are reviewed. Our child was top 10%, so the review, I believe, mostly consisted of ensuring HS transcript includes the required number of math courses (but it could be more than that, I guess).

Regarding determining academic rigor of high school...part of the application process for many in-state public universities is manually inputting the high school transcript into a separate website called SRAR. This includes indicating if the course is dual-credit, AP, honors, etc. Somehow this website tells the university a percentile rank.

Scholarships - as mentioned, several colleges/universities will offer more and less money for NMSF status and even more for NMF status (which includes a confirming SAT or ACT score, an application that is initiated by the high school principal, and an application from the student which includes an essay. The high school principal will send a high school transcript and students with less than stellar high school grades are usually the ones who don't make NMF). Tech, UTD, and OU were full-ride offers. The University of Tulsa was also a full-ride offer. Our child wanted to go to TAMU. For NMSF TAMU offers some money, but it increases with NMF status (if student names TAMU as 1st choice on the National Merit portal by May 1). The TAMU scholarship website includes what the scholarship will be, it ends up covering about 50% of the cost of attendance, but to keep Presidents Endowed student has to maintain a 3.5 overall GPA (the other school mentioned above just require a 2.0). Being a NMSF and being accepted as an engineering, science, or business student qualifies student to be interviewed by the Brown Foundation for the Brown scholarship (when filling out the TAMU admissions application, fill out the scholarship application also - this is the ONLY time student can submit scholarship application for TAMU scholarships...some things the student can add later - like letters of recommendation). This last cycle, the Brown Foundation communications were a bit stressful as instead of emailing about interview times, there were phone calls at rather inopportune times (during school hours), so setting up the interview was difficult. The interview was on Zoom, so I overheard it, and, if I do say so myself, I thought our child did a really good job. In the end, our child did not get the Brown scholarship, so I can't say what that foundation is looking for.

All good points. One thing...

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(the other school mentioned above just require a 2.0).

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Our kid took the UTD offer and they require 3.5 to keep the full scholarship.

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Our kid took the UTD offer and they require 3.5 to keep the full scholarship.

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Thanks for correcting that - congratulations to your student!

That's great info, thanks for posting.

Just found this thread. Lots of good discussion. Side story...Our 6A valedictorian (not my child), former all-state XC runner, female, National Merit Finalist, didn't get into t.u. honors engineering. She's going to A&M with a Brown scholly, Most of our top 10 this year are gonna be Ags....happy day!

Now, for my daughter...she is a National Merit Finalist, and had an eclectic mix of schools all over the country based on the major she wanted. Got into Emory, WashU, UNC, Swarthmore, Rice, Boston U., and several state flagships. At the end of the process, none of the private schools offered to take the annual cost below $50K/year. With 6 kids, and 3 family members in college, we gave them a big "nuh-uh." They can go find some other middle class kid to borrow that money and be saddled with debt into their 40's.

Meanwhile, despite a semester study abroad in Spain, and a summer study abroad in India, she managed to make all-Region XC and all-region Track her senior year, and several D-1 programs started noticing. Really on a whim, she applied to Tulsa when she saw their full ride + stipend for all semi-finalists. And, they happen to be the smallest school in the country that plays D1 football and basketball (2700 undergrads, smaller than Rice and Wake Forest). And, they happen to be very good at running. When we went to visit, and I started looking at the academics, hands-on approach to job placement, the campus, and of course the financial aid, I was pretty impressed. So, she's going to Tulsa, and running D-1 track with a full ride academic scholly.

It was all quite unexpected, and I hope she likes it there, and I'm a little sad that she's not an Aggie, but it does seem that the PSAT (and God) opened a door for her that we would have never even known about.

My advice to everyone who cares about money, CHASE THE MONEY. Every one of these schools that offers incentives for test scores and academic achievement is a good school. Which is to say, none of them will close doors for your child if your child does well there. You can go anywhere you want for grad school if you're near the top of any flagship or 2nd tier state school, or any top 100-200 private school. The sticker price value proposition just isn't there.

Also, for parents who are saving money for grad school, please learn the difference between graduate school and professional school. I think you may be in for a surprise. I have a Ph.D. and never paid a dollar for graduate school.

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My advice to everyone who cares about money, CHASE THE MONEY. Every one of these schools that offers incentives for test scores and academic achievement is a good school.

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Yeah, I agree with this. The other thing is that the schools that pay you to be there, tend to give you all sorts of other perks as well. My kid got the best dorm freshman year, now has a year round on campus apartment (no more moving until she graduates) for the next 3 years, two advisors, private lounge/computer lab, study abroad stipend, and the education has been top notch.

Awesome

I always assumed Tulsa was a public school and had no clue they were that small. How did you go about finding schools that offered full scholarships? Their package is pretty amazing since it is a private school.

I was at the National Scholar Invitational at A&M this past week and a kid said they were down to A&M (90%) and OU because OU offered $127,000 in scholarships for National Merit Finalists. I thought that was high compared to what I looked at so I checked, and it was only that high because it included out of state tuition. Based on OU's estimate to attend, it still would cost almost $50,000 over four years as an out of state student, unless you got additional scholarships. So OU is not really as attractive as I thought they were as an out of state student. And I assume most out of state schools would be the same.

Let's say my kid does not make semi-finalist. How do you search for schools that give great packages for exceptionally high SAT scores, along with grades (possible 5A valedictorian) and other extracurricular activities to add to their resume? I'd like to have a good idea of what packages would be before spending $75+ applying to multiple schools to have them present something that was only mildly appealing.

And you say chase the money, but at what point is it not beneficial to go to a school like Tech, who offers full COA, as compared to A&M where you may have only half paid for? This is just one hypothetical, but doesn't the Aggie network make it worth it/more valuable in the long run to pay half? But the cost-benefit analysis could be done between any number of combinations of larger "name" schools and smaller lesser known schools.

Have you looked at something like this?

National Merit Scholarships

A lot of the schools listed are offering quite a bit of money. To me, one of the most interesting was USC (the real one) offering a 50% scholarship to National Merit kids. If you can swing the other 50% of the bill, that's a pretty good offer. Should the number for my state land where I am thinking it will and my son is a semifinalist, I am definitely going to have him take a look at that school.

I am unaware of any other lists for very high SAT or ACT scores, valedictorian or salutatorians, etc., but I bet they are out there. Has your high school counselor been of much help? Ours hasn't really, unfortunately.

For some families, it makes financial sense to chase money. If you're middle class and your child has med school aspirations, why not save the money? Med school will cost another 200--250k, so go cheaper on the undergraduate tuition. I often coach parents to use the money saved for top-end private tutoring for pre-med coursework, med school application coaches, etc.

Now, if your student is pursuing other STEM fields or business, you may NOT have to worry about additional graduate/professional school costs.

Ultimately, each family's circumstance is different, and what each can afford.

It changes a bit a year to year, but in general I would look at red/purple state public schools that are top 75-150 in the rankings. Most blue states publics shy away from merit aid and focus on need based. Publics will usally clearly define what the specs are on their merit aid online. SEC schools not named Florida, A&M or Vandy are all good bets.

Private schools are a bit more secretive with what they offer. For NMF I remember USC (1/2 tuition) and Fordham (Free tuition) having good options.

Some schools will wave the application fee for high scores, I remember Colorado School of Mines (Nice school in great location) did that for my first kid.

If your student logs into the College Board website and selects to be contacted by schools, then your student will get mail and offers from schools all over the place based on his/her scores and profile. Otherwise, an internet search will lead you to websites that list schools that offer money based on test scores/class rank, etc. and the schools' websites will usually tell you how much is awarded for what scores. These are often called "president's scholarship" or similar. Here is the information for Tech as an example: https://www.depts.ttu.edu/scholarships/Images/202021FreshmenPresidential.pdf

A student deciding which school to go to and for what reason can be difficult! My student wanted to major in engineering, so A&M is a natural fit, BUT engineering at A&M is complicated by ETAM. I asked the question many times, "you could go to x, y, or z university and 1) major in mechanical engineering from day 1 AND 2) have school costs covered or you can go to A&M and 1) scrape and claw your way through your freshman year to make grades high enough to ensure you get into mechanical engineering and 2) have only most of your school costs covered...are you sure you want to go to A&M?" - and the answer has always been A&M.

I will add that I think your student should apply to as many scholarships (not only university related) as possible. Search them out (local scholarships and national) and apply like its a job. No scholarship amount is too small - if a student spends an hour applying for a $250 scholarship and gets it, that's more money than that student would have made working for one hour at any job! Plus, once your student has applied to colleges, most of they essays and short answers can be revised a little to use for most scholarship applications and your student will have his/her honors, accomplishments, experiences, work history, etc. already thought through, so applying for scholarships is not too burdensome. Our student was able to piece together enough external scholarship money (from local scholarships) that, when added to his NMF scholarship money from A&M, his freshman year is pretty much covered (including living on campus).

khkman22 said:

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I always assumed Tulsa was a public school and had no clue they were that small. How did you go about finding schools that offered full scholarships? Their package is pretty amazing since it is a private school.

I was at the National Scholar Invitational at A&M this past week and a kid said they were down to A&M (90%) and OU because OU offered $127,000 in scholarships for National Merit Finalists. I thought that was high compared to what I looked at so I checked, and it was only that high because it included out of state tuition. Based on OU's estimate to attend, it still would cost almost $50,000 over four years as an out of state student, unless you got additional scholarships. So OU is not really as attractive as I thought they were as an out of state student. And I assume most out of state schools would be the same.

Let's say my kid does not make semi-finalist. How do you search for schools that give great packages for exceptionally high SAT scores, along with grades (possible 5A valedictorian) and other extracurricular activities to add to their resume? I'd like to have a good idea of what packages would be before spending $75+ applying to multiple schools to have them present something that was only mildly appealing.

And you say chase the money, but at what point is it not beneficial to go to a school like Tech, who offers full COA, as compared to A&M where you may have only half paid for? This is just one hypothetical, but doesn't the Aggie network make it worth it/more valuable in the long run to pay half? But the cost-benefit analysis could be done between any number of combinations of larger "name" schools and smaller lesser known schools.

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Also - as Valedictorian, your student would be the high school's "highest ranking graduate" and, if your student attends a Texas public college or university, he/she will have tuition waived for freshman year. This is tuition only -not fees. A&M does not make it easy to determine exactly how much this is before the bill comes because its tuition calculator is a "tuition and fees" calculator and doesn't break out just tuition. Every bit helps though!

https://tea.texas.gov/academics/graduation-information/highest-ranking-graduate

I don't have a lot to add about finding websites.

I've put two kids into college (my wife is also in grad school), and I put my son through welding school. I've got 3 more kids within 5 years of college. We're gonna put everyone through without any debt. That's just how it's gonna be. Yeah, I've done okay, but I'm a scientist who has stayed on the SME ladder since getting my terminal degree at 26. My wife has been a SAHM. Point is, and I'm getting to it, is that money has mattered at every turn. Yet, we know people making 2x what we've had, with only 2 kids, who are totally taken by surprise and are totally unprepared for college costs. Not here to pass judgment; mainly setting up this: we ended up doing something that I never would have considered. We hired a consultant. I don't know what the total costs were, but we probably paid around $2500 per student.

For child #1, she interviewed her, searched options at various places, found several highly regarded small colleges that could beat Texas A&M on costs (her back-up; 75,000 students wasn't gonna work with her). Eventually she ended up at a very highly regarded women's college out of state. We would have never found it on our own. For the record, she was National Merit Commended (~97th %ile).

For child #2, the NM Finalist, we went through the same process. We did all the stuff with the consultant, but at the end of it, she changed her major, clicked on the Tulsa application, got the red carpet treatment, and that was it. You could argue that the consultant was not needed, but on the other hand, the process helped her vet a lot of places, which ultimately gave her more confidence in the place she picked.

One more comment on the Aggie Network. I love being an Aggie. I really do. Just check my pulse during the baseball regionals, SEC football games, and NCAA tourney. My grandfather was '28, and my dad is '63. I wish at least one of my kids would go there. But as for being an Aggie, it's never gotten me a leg up on anything professionally. Now with 15,000 students in the college of engineering, it must mean even less. On top of that, even though I accomplished a lot as an undergrad, everybody I meet knows me by where I went to grad school. So...maybe A&M is the place to go for grad school?