Farmers and ranchers can process their own meat

9,803 Views | 142 Replies | Last: 1 hr ago by schmellba99
schmellba99
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AG
AgLA06 said:

Texas12&0 said:

AgLA06 said:

Ok. This can be great for the average person not in a city.

So now the real question. How do you do this without losing oversite to health and safety. Because I don't think the average person on here understands what inspected facilities have to go through in time, cost, and requirements.

Simple answer is education for the cattle ranchers. If they want to stay in business they will produce quality meat. If they sell to a retailer, like HEB, then the burden shifts to HEB that they are reselling quality meat. Don't need a bunch of government employees looking over everyone's shoulder and adding regulation. If you want to stay in business, ranchers and supermarkets, you do your due diligence. That's the beauty of capitalism. You protect your livelihood and compete at the highest level.

This is niave at best. I hope. See the post above about reality of the food industry and inspection requirements.

We absolutly need goverment oversite to ensure an even playing field across facilities and verification of safe food handling pracitices. And we especially need the ability to trace evertying accordingly when the inevitable issue (mad cow, bacterial contamination, foreign objects incorproated, etc.) recalls or health outbrakes happen.

Like most posts on this board 97% of the people typing have little to no undestanding of the topic. Outside of co-ops popping up that will still have to abide by inspection and health guidelines and the incurred costs (in inspectors, QA personnel, equipment, and facility cleaning, etc.) it most likely won't change much, if anything in pricing to consumers.

Where it could change something is attempting to break pricing controls of the big houses. But in the end like most similar attempts of deregulation, it just allows others to participate at the same higher pricing (if they can find the financing to play).

I'm in the food commodity industry and ***** regularly about the costs, impacts, and general PITA the various certification and inspections requirements impact all kinds of products. But they are there for a reason.

We really don't though.

Last I checked, even if a cut of beef has a USDA inspected stamp on it and you end up getting sick because it had something wrong with it, the USDA tells you they are really sorry and that's just about it. You as a consumer have zero recourse. And for all the "government inspection is the greatest thing ever!!!!" - how many thousands of pounds of meat, vegetables, etc. been recalled because after the fact it was discovered that it was contaminated? Even though it was inspected.

Do I think it's a good idea to have inspection? Most of the time I do. Where I think it has the most value is the back tracing ability - but that is a reactive component, not a proactive one. But I don't look at it as some magic bullet that fixes everything and certainly don't think it is an absolute requirement. Man made it a long, long time before the idea that somebody working for a government agency needed to inspect food.
Rossticus
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Ag83 said:

B-1 83 said:

As long as the facilities are inspected, I have no issues. Think of some of the worst case scenarios for "processing facilities"……yeah, I want inspections there like I do HEB.

What if I want to buy from someone who has not been inspected by those you approve of? Why do I need your approval for this? Make it clear to consumers/buyers what the facts and risks are and let them decide.


Should go ahead and make that the case for all food and food preparation, while protecting those entities from potential litigation. Prices would be reduced drastically. Let buyers face the risk and make their own decisions.
Ag83
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Rossticus said:

Ag83 said:

B-1 83 said:

As long as the facilities are inspected, I have no issues. Think of some of the worst case scenarios for "processing facilities"……yeah, I want inspections there like I do HEB.

What if I want to buy from someone who has not been inspected by those you approve of? Why do I need your approval for this? Make it clear to consumers/buyers what the facts and risks are and let them decide.


Should go ahead and make that the case for all food and food preparation, while protecting those entities from potential litigation. Prices would be reduced drastically. Let buyers face the risk and make their own decisions.

Quote:

while protecting those entities from potential litigation.

I never suggested that.
Rossticus
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Ag83 said:

Rossticus said:

Ag83 said:

B-1 83 said:

As long as the facilities are inspected, I have no issues. Think of some of the worst case scenarios for "processing facilities"……yeah, I want inspections there like I do HEB.

What if I want to buy from someone who has not been inspected by those you approve of? Why do I need your approval for this? Make it clear to consumers/buyers what the facts and risks are and let them decide.


Should go ahead and make that the case for all food and food preparation, while protecting those entities from potential litigation. Prices would be reduced drastically. Let buyers face the risk and make their own decisions.

Quote:

while protecting those entities from potential litigation.

I never suggested that.


Did I say that you did?
gkaggie08
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You are right that man made it a long time without the government checking their food for them, but that was mainly do to man hunting/slaughtering his own meat for his family. As people have moved further and further away from the source of their food, it's fundamentally important that some third party verifies that food products have been handled in a sanitary manner
AgLA06
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schmellba99 said:

AgLA06 said:

Texas12&0 said:

AgLA06 said:

Ok. This can be great for the average person not in a city.

So now the real question. How do you do this without losing oversite to health and safety. Because I don't think the average person on here understands what inspected facilities have to go through in time, cost, and requirements.

Simple answer is education for the cattle ranchers. If they want to stay in business they will produce quality meat. If they sell to a retailer, like HEB, then the burden shifts to HEB that they are reselling quality meat. Don't need a bunch of government employees looking over everyone's shoulder and adding regulation. If you want to stay in business, ranchers and supermarkets, you do your due diligence. That's the beauty of capitalism. You protect your livelihood and compete at the highest level.

This is niave at best. I hope. See the post above about reality of the food industry and inspection requirements.

We absolutly need goverment oversite to ensure an even playing field across facilities and verification of safe food handling pracitices. And we especially need the ability to trace evertying accordingly when the inevitable issue (mad cow, bacterial contamination, foreign objects incorproated, etc.) recalls or health outbrakes happen.

Like most posts on this board 97% of the people typing have little to no undestanding of the topic. Outside of co-ops popping up that will still have to abide by inspection and health guidelines and the incurred costs (in inspectors, QA personnel, equipment, and facility cleaning, etc.) it most likely won't change much, if anything in pricing to consumers.

Where it could change something is attempting to break pricing controls of the big houses. But in the end like most similar attempts of deregulation, it just allows others to participate at the same higher pricing (if they can find the financing to play).

I'm in the food commodity industry and ***** regularly about the costs, impacts, and general PITA the various certification and inspections requirements impact all kinds of products. But they are there for a reason.

We really don't though.

Last I checked, even if a cut of beef has a USDA inspected stamp on it and you end up getting sick because it had something wrong with it, the USDA tells you they are really sorry and that's just about it. You as a consumer have zero recourse. And for all the "government inspection is the greatest thing ever!!!!" - how many thousands of pounds of meat, vegetables, etc. been recalled because after the fact it was discovered that it was contaminated? Even though it was inspected.

Do I think it's a good idea to have inspection? Most of the time I do. Where I think it has the most value is the back tracing ability - but that is a reactive component, not a proactive one. But I don't look at it as some magic bullet that fixes everything and certainly don't think it is an absolute requirement. Man made it a long, long time before the idea that somebody working for a government agency needed to inspect food.

No. What actually happens is they trace the origin and fix the issue or shut the facility down. They also recall all defective or impacted product on the market. Which is where much of the PITA from the inspection process comes in (traceability and the paper trail).

In your scenario people keep dying because Billy Bob told you how great an ignorant American you were for saying government always bad. Thankfully your wife and kids (if they aren't violantly ill or dead) at least get your life insurance. Without agencies for the medical field to report issues to, no one figures out the connection that is causing the illnesses, traces it back, and stops future people from continuing to eat the cow in their freezer.

Nice soap box though.
Ag83
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Rossticus said:

Ag83 said:

Rossticus said:

Ag83 said:

B-1 83 said:

As long as the facilities are inspected, I have no issues. Think of some of the worst case scenarios for "processing facilities"……yeah, I want inspections there like I do HEB.

What if I want to buy from someone who has not been inspected by those you approve of? Why do I need your approval for this? Make it clear to consumers/buyers what the facts and risks are and let them decide.


Should go ahead and make that the case for all food and food preparation, while protecting those entities from potential litigation. Prices would be reduced drastically. Let buyers face the risk and make their own decisions.

Quote:

while protecting those entities from potential litigation.

I never suggested that.


Did I say that you did?

Seemed that way. If you agree/disagree, that's fine.
B-1 83
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Ag83 said:

B-1 83 said:

As long as the facilities are inspected, I have no issues. Think of some of the worst case scenarios for "processing facilities"……yeah, I want inspections there like I do HEB.

What if I want to buy from someone who has not been inspected by those you approve of? Why do I need your approval for this? Make it clear to consumers/buyers what the facts and risks are and let them decide.

Pay your money, take your chances in 2026……..
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
jagsdad
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I just hope it encourages more small processing plants to open. Growing up, we had 2 processing outfits in Gainesville, both right next to the sale barn. There were also 2 in Muenster. Both in Gainesville shut down. Fortunately, both in Muenster still operate.
Bondag
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AgLA06 said:

Ok. This can be great for the average person not in a city.

So now the real question. How do you do this without losing oversite to health and safety. Because I don't think the average person on here understands what inspected facilities have to go through in time, cost, and requirements.


https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-47-morning-update-with-ben-ferguson/id1790957194

I think this is episode from today that discusses it. Trump was on radio with Glenn Beck and he brought up the monopoly. Trump asked if cutting red tape would make beef cheaper.

There needs to be some oversight, but not to the point only 4 people can do it.
jh88ag
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There have been a lot of small plants open since 2021 (post-covid grants) and most have failed. The numbers just don't work for many reasons.
one safe place
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I have heard more than a few claim they can't make anything at whatever the current prices were at the time, that the processors are making all the money. Some said they should form a co-op and do their own processing, but I figured it was just lip service. And nobody formed one.

I don't think they really want to get into much processing and even less likely do they want to be part of a group doing that.

There were some guys I know who sold some of their own beef cattle locally. You could buy a half or whole animal. Not sure how that was structured, either direct sale, or if they took it to a processor, just remember them posting they had beef for sale.

Hard to make money as a little guy in any business and cattle is no different.
jh88ag
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It's a very tough business, especially for little guys.
ToddyHill
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Quote:

It's a very tough business,

Earlier this month, Tyson said they'd lose up to 650 million dollars in their fresh beef operation this fiscal year. They're also restructuring their beef business, closing two plants and selling a third.

If they can't make money, I don't see how a smaller operation could turn a profit.
mjschiller
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Currently, doesn't China owe 2 of the packing plants and Argentina 1 of the 4 plants?
reineraggie09
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I had the same question. 44 Farms or other boutique producers that sell directly to restaurants or in their own stores.
boulderaggie
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I believe that's true.

I love this move! Our food supply should not be dominated and controlled by a handful of foreign choke points. I also favor giving farmers the ability to use their own heirloom seeds. It's the only way to protect the people against bad actors.
mjschiller
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boulderaggie - I agree
Sq 17
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Maybe the packing plant price fixed and squeezed everybody else in the chain

The packers are not why herd size is at a record low and prices are at a record high

Maybe people can process their own Steer but likely requires some skill and knowledge

the local butcher I occasionally process a steer at is on a 6 month wait list and a not the easiest person to deal with
bkag9824
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ToddyHill said:

Quote:

It's a very tough business,

Earlier this month, Tyson said they'd lose up to 650 million dollars in their fresh beef operation this fiscal year. They're also restructuring their beef business, closing two plants and selling a third.

If they can't make money, I don't see how a smaller operation could turn a profit.


Maybe business and society in general need fewer massive corporations and a more realistic cost profile for the goods/services rendered. Why do so called conservatives continue to advocate for more consolidation of fiscal power and capability? Why do we continue to allow illegals immigrants to pick our produce, work in restaurant kitchens, build and clean our houses, mow our yards, etc.? It's an artificial way to manage costs.

Everywhere you turn "the little man" is squeezed out of business by corporate "efficiency". Maybe our society should be more based on real and durable goods/services than algorithmic stock prices that encourage unhealthy pursuit of percentage growth and profit every quarter?

I'm obviously not an economist but there are numerous indicators that our fiscal policies are running us head first over a cliff.



And I've looked at opening a boutique processing facility because it was a minimum 6-8 month wait to get a steer processed within 150 miles of family property just east of Columbus. That speaks to a supply imbalance of processing capacity. Texas requires you process animals on "land different than raised on" if memory serves correctly. That would require a grower to subdivide a parcel of their land, pay associated costs to replat, etc. for the sole purpose of it being "different land" when the tracts share a common chain link fence. Give me a break.

We should absolutely require inspection to ensure our food supply is well looked after. But there are significant regulatory efficiencies to be realized that COULD ultimately make a difference.

It's a decent start that will hopefully lead to durable federal policy/legal modifications instead of an EO.
Ag83
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gkaggie08
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Nothing in the TAC requires you to build your processing plant on different ground than where you raise your animals. The plant that CanyonAg linked has their feedlot connected to the slaughter pens.

As far as small plants not being able to make it, the good ones are making money, and like you said, are booked up months out. The local slaughter plant near me really doesn't take on any new customers unless it's a pig after show season. Their slots are full year round from repeat customers. Some of those customers bring in one steer a year for their household, and some bring in 10/month because they have a direct to consumer business
bkag9824
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Yeah, went back and reread the regs after posting, and you're right. Been several years since I looked into it all and my memory was wrong.
ts5641
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Will it mean less illegals involved in the process? If so, that would be a good thing.
TexasAggie73
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We like going to the Rosenthal Meat Center about once a month at A&M to buy meat. It about 1 and a half hour drive from us and they process the meat there and ship nation wide.
ValleyRatAg
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Maybe this will allow the average Joe to buy outside skirt steak again.
CanyonAg77
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TexasAggie73 said:

We like going to the Rosenthal Meat Center about once a month at A&M to buy meat. It about 1 and a half hour drive from us and they process the meat there and ship nation wide.


For those in the Amarillo area, WTAMU does the same thing. Doc's Prime Cuts in the new Ag building on campus. Good stuff.
ToddyHill
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Quote:

Currently, doesn't China owe 2 of the packing plants and Argentina 1 of the 4 plants?

Smithfield Foods, the largest pork processor in the United States, is owned by the Chinese.

Both JBS and National Beef are owned by Brazilians. Cargill is a privately held U.S. Corporation based in Minnesota. And then there's Tyson, publicly traded, based in Arkansas.
AgLA06
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ToddyHill said:

Quote:

Currently, doesn't China owe 2 of the packing plants and Argentina 1 of the 4 plants?

Smithfield Foods, the largest pork processor in the United States, is owned by the Chinese.

Both JBS and National Beef are owned by Brazilians. Cargill is a privately held U.S. Corporation based in Minnesota. And then there's Tyson, publicly traded, based in Arkansas.


Wait until this board finds out its essentially the same in all the other proteins. And they're all dominated by
a handful of large conglomerates because the smaller companies are more expensive and struggle to survive the large pricing swings year to year.

And the same people who want to soap box about competition and the small independent ultimately won't pay more for their products. See all the naive comments above thinking this somehow cuts costs.
Jaspers Ghost
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IndividualFreedom said:

Quote:

Free Market competition is good and in the end is always better but no system is perfect.

This is the answer. Whether it takes off and booms with success or phases out like homebrew, it is a win for individual freedom.


I like the cut of your jib, Sir!
MasonB
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Joel Salatin explains...

Spergin
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I support this primarily because the major processors use illegals and foreign labor to run their factories. If you think these plants are remotely in compliance with any laws then you're delusional. There is no chance those illegals and/or foreigners are following anything the USDA says. I'll trust a local American butcher/processor than I would any of these major processors.
Burdizzo
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CanyonAg77 said:

Tramp96 said:

Now let farmers use their own seeds.

They can.

They can't steal seeds from technology that others have produced



Not quite the same as holding seed back for next year's planting, but I always thought this ruling was wrong



Carnwellag2
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those are some HIGH prices!
mjschiller
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ToddyHill- thanks. Someone needs to buy out those 3 foreign owned plants.
 
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