shiftyandquick said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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I remember when conservatives used to believe in capitalism. Not in nationalizing companies and the federal governments taking stakes into them, and propping up domestic industries by implementing massive tariffs. So much for any pretense to the invisible hand. It's a very visible hand that sweeps money away from you and directly to the oligarchy.

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m

Strictly speaking capitalism is the obvious choice if we all play by the same rules. Unfortunately in today's global economy we don't. To my knowledge we haven't implemented any tariffs that weren't reactionary meaning we have them in response to actions by the other nation. China heavily subsidizes industries it wants to keep in China which artificially reduces the cost of those goods and disincentivizes companies to move production elsewhere including back to the U.S. and they do it by printing money at a rate significantly faster than we're printing it. That creates a significant advantage for Chinese workers that we can't compete against without offsetting subsidies, aka tariffs. Whining about American policy as anti-capitalist without acknowledging the whole picture is disingenuous at best.

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Wrong. Trump implemented tariffs on essentially every country in the world. They are doing so to remake the American economy. Not to combat unfair trading practices.

I get it--you believe what Trump says when he says it. But it's a lie.

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How does that make any sense?

Please spell out what you are trying to say.

Silent For Too Long said:

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The only people "giving up on America" are entitled babies that are completely ignorant on how good they have it and wish they had Elon money without having to work for it.

What exactly are you suggesting? What is the solutions you are proposing? Because it sounds a whole lot like Socialism but you don't have the courage to come out and say it.

---

When there is no opportunity and it's been sold for a few dollars, people give up. That is what you see today with Americans pushed out of the tech world by foreigners who aren't even very good. But they are cheap and our Govt doesn't give a damn.

Socialism? Labels don't scare me. You can call me a socialist if you like.

I think 100% capitalism is a failure just lie 100% socialism. We got to have something in between. It isn't easy to find out how much either and that keeps changing with time.

LOYAL AG said:

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Quote:

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I knew someone that told me once that in the US we think in terms for fiscal quarters. Do whatever we can to squeeze out some growth for that quarter, without thinking about the long term. In China, they think in terms of fiscal centuries. They'll take loss after loss for years, if they think decades from now it'll pay dividends.

---

And yet China has been a third world agrarian society for all of the past 5000 years except the current era when the U.S. lifted them out of poverty for strategic purposes. You sound like you're trying to say that thinking in terms of centuries is somehow a winning strategy for China which is illogical given what's actually happened. They've existed in some form or fashion for 50 centuries and have been the dominant global force for exactly zero of them. When does their payoff for that long term focus come? Meanwhile we are 250 years old and run the world and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

What am I missing here?

---

I'm talking about more recently, in terms of thinking long term. Our companies think in terms of fiscal quarters and years, but our politicians think in terms of election cycles. Getting a little off topic, but still relevant. What is good in the short term to get elected/reelected. Not necessarily what is going to keep the US at an economic/educational/industrial/innovative advantage over everyone else. How do we keep innovators here, in the US, instead of outsourcing our R&D to cheaper scientists in India?

If a company is under so much pressure to produce growth, and cut expenses, does the CEO really care what happens to the company in 10 years after he's long retired? If he can get stock prices to go up for the next few years, he'll get his bonus, and retire rich. And maybe even the next CEO will inherit an upward trajectory. But eventually momentum switches. And we see it all the time, companies have boom and bust cycles because they start looking purely at how to maximize profit. And then go through a few CEOs, maybe even a bankruptcy, till someone can figure out how to fix them.

Looking at China from a thousand years ago and comparing it to China today is a pointless exercise. Just like comparing England during the Industrial revolution and England today. China has gone from an economy that relies on knocking off intellectual property from everyone else, to one that actually is starting to innovate themselves. We use far more oil per dollar of economic output than China does and they're slowly becoming less and less dependent on oil than we are. Their middle class has been rapidly expanding. Ours has been shrinking.

Our biggest advantage was WWII, and being insulated by two oceans. We were able to get out of the great depression with massive government war time spending, while other countries (China, Russia, Europe) all suffered immensely. As time goes on, the advantage WWII gave us is shrinking. How do we keep ahead of everyone else as they're trying to catch up?

infinity ag said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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The only people "giving up on America" are entitled babies that are completely ignorant on how good they have it and wish they had Elon money without having to work for it.

What exactly are you suggesting? What is the solutions you are proposing? Because it sounds a whole lot like Socialism but you don't have the courage to come out and say it.

---

When there is no opportunity and it's been sold for a few dollars, people give up. That is what you see today with Americans pushed out of the tech world by foreigners who aren't even very good. But they are cheap and our Govt doesn't give a damn.

Socialism? Labels don't scare me. You can call me a socialist if you like.

I think 100% capitalism is a failure just lie 100% socialism. We got to have something in between. It isn't easy to find out how much either and that keeps changing with time.

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99.9999999% Capitalism
.0000001% Socialism

And even that is too much of the latter.

This, to a certain extent. People like cheap goods because quality does not bring utility if quality is not required for the product or task. Harbor Freight is a good example. Many of their tools are dirt cheap. They're not nearly as good as name brands like Milwaukee, DeWalt, or Makita, but they don't always need to be. I don't need quality and precision out of a reciprocating saw or angle grinder. I just need it to work halfway decently. Their chinesium tools are often a better value because they're cheap, despite inferior quality.

There is also an issue of labor value to consumer utility that is an issue with many goods, and especially the OOP's. The utility of a grill brush, and most other infrequently used products, to most people just isn't worth the labor cost that American workers would demand to make them of the supply chains and production existed here. American workers have a higher standard of living, and those capable or skilled enough to make up the supply and production chain for these goods would not work at a rate that would collectively make products like this economically viable. That's why manufacturing moved overseas in the first place.

BigRobSA said:

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infinity ag said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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The only people "giving up on America" are entitled babies that are completely ignorant on how good they have it and wish they had Elon money without having to work for it.

What exactly are you suggesting? What is the solutions you are proposing? Because it sounds a whole lot like Socialism but you don't have the courage to come out and say it.

---

When there is no opportunity and it's been sold for a few dollars, people give up. That is what you see today with Americans pushed out of the tech world by foreigners who aren't even very good. But they are cheap and our Govt doesn't give a damn.

Socialism? Labels don't scare me. You can call me a socialist if you like.

I think 100% capitalism is a failure just lie 100% socialism. We got to have something in between. It isn't easy to find out how much either and that keeps changing with time.

---

99.9999999% Capitalism
.0000001% Socialism

And even that is too much of the latter.

---

Bro, I went to grad school (twice). And one in engineering. I know math.

But good try.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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This, to a certain extent. People like cheap goods because quality does not bring utility if quality is not required for the product or task. Harbor Freight is a good example. Many of their tools are dirt cheap. They're not nearly as good as name brands like Milwaukee, DeWalt, or Makita, but they don't always need to be. I don't need quality and precision out of a reciprocating saw or angle grinder. I just need it to work halfway decently. Their chinesium tools are often a better value because they're cheap, despite inferior quality.

There is also an issue of labor value to consumer utility that is an issue with many goods, and especially the OOP's. The utility of a grill brush, and most other infrequently used products, to most people just isn't worth the labor cost that American workers would demand to make them of the supply chains and production existed here. American workers have a higher standard of living, and those capable or skilled enough to make up the supply and production chain for these goods would not work at a rate that would collectively make products like this economically viable. That's why manufacturing moved overseas in the first place.

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Depends.

For the last 17 years, we pay more and buy better quality food from Whole Foods. We can afford it. Earlier when I could afford less, we purchased from the local Mexican grocery store. Cheap. But lower quality.

So it is wrong to say that people just want cheap. Depends.

I think you are saying the same thing I am, so the response is to the earlier poster.

Hank the Grifter said:

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Way too many government regulations in place that stifle American entrepreneurship and manufacturing.

Get the government out of the way and watch what happens.

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It doesn't help when the government is funding the competition, thus enabling them have a major unfair advantage over you?

eric76 said:

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Hank the Grifter said:

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Way too many government regulations in place that stifle American entrepreneurship and manufacturing.

Get the government out of the way and watch what happens.

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It doesn't help when the government is funding the competition, thus enabling them have a major unfair advantage over you?

---

Example or explanation?

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Quote:

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I knew someone that told me once that in the US we think in terms for fiscal quarters. Do whatever we can to squeeze out some growth for that quarter, without thinking about the long term. In China, they think in terms of fiscal centuries. They'll take loss after loss for years, if they think decades from now it'll pay dividends.

---

And yet China has been a third world agrarian society for all of the past 5000 years except the current era when the U.S. lifted them out of poverty for strategic purposes. You sound like you're trying to say that thinking in terms of centuries is somehow a winning strategy for China which is illogical given what's actually happened. They've existed in some form or fashion for 50 centuries and have been the dominant global force for exactly zero of them. When does their payoff for that long term focus come? Meanwhile we are 250 years old and run the world and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

What am I missing here?

---

I'm talking about more recently, in terms of thinking long term. Our companies think in terms of fiscal quarters and years, but our politicians think in terms of election cycles. Getting a little off topic, but still relevant. What is good in the short term to get elected/reelected. Not necessarily what is going to keep the US at an economic/educational/industrial/innovative advantage over everyone else. How do we keep innovators here, in the US, instead of outsourcing our R&D to cheaper scientists in India?

If a company is under so much pressure to produce growth, and cut expenses, does the CEO really care what happens to the company in 10 years after he's long retired? If he can get stock prices to go up for the next few years, he'll get his bonus, and retire rich. And maybe even the next CEO will inherit an upward trajectory. But eventually momentum switches. And we see it all the time, companies have boom and bust cycles because they start looking purely at how to maximize profit. And then go through a few CEOs, maybe even a bankruptcy, till someone can figure out how to fix them.

Looking at China from a thousand years ago and comparing it to China today is a pointless exercise. Just like comparing England during the Industrial revolution and England today. China has gone from an economy that relies on knocking off intellectual property from everyone else, to one that actually is starting to innovate themselves. We use far more oil per dollar of economic output than China does and they're slowly becoming less and less dependent on oil than we are. Their middle class has been rapidly expanding. Ours has been shrinking.

Our biggest advantage was WWII, and being insulated by two oceans. We were able to get out of the great depression with massive government war time spending, while other countries (China, Russia, Europe) all suffered immensely. As time goes on, the advantage WWII gave us is shrinking. How do we keep ahead of everyone else as they're trying to catch up?

---

Lots to unpack here and I appreciate the detailed explanation of where you are. For the record I do think our short term focus is all things is a problem. Corporations are too short term oriented and quarterly profits and stock prices do trump all else which isn't a healthy mindset for a business. The constant pursuit of reelection is also a terrible way to run a country as well so all good points.

The bottom line truth of American world dominance is that we're a Bob Ross painting in real life. We're the happy mistake of low friction government and the greatest abundance of natural resources anywhere on earth. We have more navigable waterways than all other countries combined. That matters because shipping on water is 10x cheaper than rail which is many times cheaper than truck. We have more energy supplies than we can consume in multiple lifetimes and a huge abundance of so called rare earth minerals. The only way we can screw up our massive advantage in natural resources is to get away from low friction government which is a core focus of one major party who is desperate to control all that wealth.

Let's talk about the state of China for a minute. Most of what they publish about their economy is probably nonsense. We don't know if their middle class even exists. We do know middle class isn't a hallmark of communism so why would they be different? Their government is the polar opposite of low friction which is a major competitive disadvantage and always will be unless the Democrats succeed to imposing communism here. Central planning will never foster the creativity capitalism will, it's just not possible. The best and brightest come here because the system encourages innovation and that's a uniquely American mindset.

The simple truth is China has mediocre natural resources including poor navigable waterways and mediocre soil when it comes to food production. They import well over half of their food making them extremely reliant on the U.S. lead world order just to eat. They're working to reduce their reliance on oil because they import over 70% of what they need which makes them extremely dependent on the U.S. lead world order for energy. Sensing a theme here? The one natural resource they do have in abundance is coal and they're doing their best to maximize its use as a replacement for oil. That's why we're seeing so much focus on EV because coal can be out into a car to power it, but it can be put into a plant to generate electricity for a fleet of EV.

If China wants to learn to invent instead of steal that's great for them and ultimately for the world as some awesome new stuff will come out of that. I'll believe it when I see it. I don't for a minute believe that a nation that historically has no middle class suddenly has an expanding one at the same time their overall population is shrinking. That's illogical. If Europe is being conquered by Islam then China is being conquered by old age, they're aging faster than any nation on earth not called Russia. They became the world's largest manufacturer by trading cheap labor for food and energy but their ability to provide that cheap labor are over which is why we're seeing corporations leaving, the economics don't work anymore.

There's an overall tendency in the U.S. to think it's all about to come crashing down and we're going to lose our competitive advantage to China. 50 years ago we were losing the Cold War to the Soviets who it turns out were on the verge of economic collapse. China isn't capable of surpassing the U.S. as the dominant economy because we're the only consumer base of note. An economic war where we stopped buying their crap would be the end of China as a world power because there's no one else to buy their crap and without that they don't have the money to buy food or oil. See where this ends?

We're a disaster politically in large part because the federal government was never meant to be what it has become which is a behemoth that has its hands in every aspect of our lives. Decentralization has created a messy system that is a PITA to navigate but I'll take that any day over what an all controlling centralized government would look like.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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eric76 said:

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Hank the Grifter said:

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Way too many government regulations in place that stifle American entrepreneurship and manufacturing.

Get the government out of the way and watch what happens.

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It doesn't help when the government is funding the competition, thus enabling them have a major unfair advantage over you?

---

Example or explanation?

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I run a small ISP. The government gave a rather predatory competitor the funding to install fiber optics throughout our operating area.

Until they did that, we could compete quite well against them.

bigtruckguy3500 said:

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eric76 said:

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Hank the Grifter said:

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Way too many government regulations in place that stifle American entrepreneurship and manufacturing.

Get the government out of the way and watch what happens.

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It doesn't help when the government is funding the competition, thus enabling them have a major unfair advantage over you?

---

Example or explanation?

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Government run grocery stores until they inevitably fail. See Mamdani and Davis in Chicago.

infinity ag said:

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BusterAg said:

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infinity ag said:

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Capitalism is a great system. No doubt.

However it's become a religion by now. No one wants to think about the downsides of capitalism (much like a religion). If someone brings them up, then people try to attack that person - again like in case of a religion. Capitalism, like any system has prerequisites. What are those? No one cares. There isn't a proper definition of what is and what isn't capitalism. So that means anyone can do whatever they like and call it capitalism and if they are rich and famous, no one will dare to oppose that.

America isn't in good shape today. Something is wrong.I feel like many Americans have given up on America and are either preparing to die or admit defeat to China and/or Russia/India. Talking to people gives me this view.

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This was a long ramble that made zero sense.

America is doing great. Get off your phone. It just depresses people.

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I am on my desktop. I don't use my phone for TexAgs.

It did not make sense to you because you did not take the time to read and think about it. Try it.

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It didn't make sense because.....it didn't make sense. You are beyond jaded about pretty much everything because of the choices you have made in your life and career and can do nothing but blame everybody else.

Hank the Grifter said:

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Way too many government regulations in place that stifle American entrepreneurship and manufacturing.

Get the government out of the way and watch what happens.

---

Ultimately this is the root cause of well over 90% of manufacturing woes in this country.

For 20+ years the federal government did everything it could to push physical manufacturing out of the country and overseas through regulation after regulation and tax after tax after tax.

The steel and lead industry is a prime example - the feds essentially made it to where you could not make a profit in the production of steel. Pittsburg, Birmingham, Tyler and a host of other cities that were built on the steel and metals producing industry just about died overnight. It wasn't until the feds came up with Buy American, AIS, BABA, etc. that this industry started to revive itself.

The problem is that the industry revived not because they could compete with outsourced materials, but because the taxpayers had to buy from American foundries, and those foundries pricing is far more than overseas. So great for them, bad for the taxpayers that have to pay more for the same product. The biggest reason these foundries cannot compete is regulation (EPA, etc.) and labor costs (mostly union driven).

You know why cars cost $100k these days? Not because Chevy and Dodge and Ford are pushing out vehicles that are worth $100k and vehicles that the consumers are clamoring for and want to pay $100k for - they are $100k because there are about 5,000 various government regulations that drive up the price. And they drive the price up artificially higher because the feds say that the manufacturers have to put these widgets and cameras and all of the other stupid sht that are in cars and trucks now. Union wages, facilitiated and supported by the feds, also drive up the cost to stupid numbers. In no world should somebody that spends 8 or 10 hours a day bolting tires onto a damn car make $50 an hour plus perks and benefits and smoke breaks and special holidays and whatever else they nestle into union contracts.

We no longer mine lead in the US. All of the lead used in our batteries and electronics, etc. is recycled or imported. Lead cannot be mined domestically at any semblance of a profitable cost because the federal regs have killed the industry. Same with things like galvanizing facilities - when one closes down, there isn't another one to take its place. Because the regs put on them are insane.

Inventory taxes, payroll taxes, taxes on taxes, etc. also are production killers.

Cut the red tape, get the damned feds out of the way and production will come back and prices will come down due to more and more competition (that whole capitalism thing that is apparently bad according to some posters here).

infinity ag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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infinity ag said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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The only people "giving up on America" are entitled babies that are completely ignorant on how good they have it and wish they had Elon money without having to work for it.

What exactly are you suggesting? What is the solutions you are proposing? Because it sounds a whole lot like Socialism but you don't have the courage to come out and say it.

---

When there is no opportunity and it's been sold for a few dollars, people give up. That is what you see today with Americans pushed out of the tech world by foreigners who aren't even very good. But they are cheap and our Govt doesn't give a damn.

Socialism? Labels don't scare me. You can call me a socialist if you like.

I think 100% capitalism is a failure just lie 100% socialism. We got to have something in between. It isn't easy to find out how much either and that keeps changing with time.

---

99.9999999% Capitalism
.0000001% Socialism

And even that is too much of the latter.

---

Bro, I went to grad school (twice). And one in engineering. I know math.

But good try.

---

You had to repeat grad school?

Dis gonna be good….

I like Destin Sandlin and the SmarterEveryDay channel in general. I used SmarterEveryDay as homeschool Science class supplemental lessons for my son for years.

Destin is pretty open about his Christian faith and values.

But on this, I noticed a swarm of YouTube comments of leftists on this video where they seem to be thinking that Destin is endorsing or moving towards Communism or Socialism.

Destin says he does not like entering the political arena often, but in this case, there is NO WAY he can avoid that with wording of the video on his title and thumbnail and putting it with a Chinese and American flag background.

I have watched the video all the way way through and Destin makes a lot of good points. In fact, I agree with a lot of his assessments/assertions in the video about 'en****tification' etc...

But the problem is that Destin doesn't tie the fact that functional capitalism, as we have built it in the west, is dependent on Christian virtue. He talks about how profits first can lead to bad outcomes... but does not explain WHAT kind of virtues are necessary for capitalism to function in a healthy way.

He also does not mention that much of what he is talking about in terms of losing manufacturing and quality to China is EXACTLY what President Trump has been talking about. The Trump administration clearly wants American manufacturing and workers to produce WHATEVER WE CAN PRODUCE here. Destin did an interview video, albeit non-political with Obama, in 2016. It's not like he doesn't have the ability to discuss this with President Trump, VP Vance, or one of Trump's cabinet members that supports Trump's manufacturing initiatives/policies. Destin is well connected and is a LARGE YouTube creator - the kind of which Trump himself has engage during his 2024 campaign and during his second term often. Why would Destin not consider that this is worth doing?

Destin should do better than this. And he should make a video dispelling the Communist/Socialist trolls who are trying to take a victory lap and spin Destin's video to their agenda.

Quote:

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But the problem is that Destin doesn't tie the fact that functional capitalism, as we have built it in the west, is dependent on Christian virtue. He talks about how profits first can lead to bad outcomes... but does not explain WHAT kind of virtues are necessary for capitalism to function in a healthy way.

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Yes. This is the point that's been lacking.

Capitalism is best just understood as freedom. Free markets mean you buy what you want, from who you want, at the price you want. This freedom unleashes maximum economic productivity and activity. However, it is virtueless. Freedom in and of itself is just license, but license for evil is not beneficial. To be good, it has to have an aim or an end.

For people to be truly free their freedom has to have an end of virtue - Aristotle talked about this in Politics when describing the purpose of state. It isn't GDP go up or make money... that is confusing means for ends. Wealth is not an end or good in itself. The people collectively have to have a shared vision of the good, of the end, and wealth is the means to that end.

We've embraced secularism and consumerism so hard that our end has become money itself, which is stupid. Aside from the things Destin notes here, it also precludes any kind of beauty - because when you value everything by tangible instrumentalism (that is, if it doesn't have direct measurable value it is value zero) then beauty is value negative. Beauty is a kind of superabundance of effort that is given out of care for the person who will interact with the product. It's a social manifestation of love.

When your society only values profit, you don't love each other, and you end up with cheap ugliness everywhere. This isn't an attack on free markets, freedom, or capitalism.

Forgot to add - slavish devotion to money and consumption also make it totally reasonable to ignore the cost to your posterity to achieve short term gain. Direct line from there to the hollowing out of manufacturing in this country, the welfare state, immigration problems, etc.

LOYAL AG said:

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bigtruckguy3500 said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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Quote:

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I knew someone that told me once that in the US we think in terms for fiscal quarters. Do whatever we can to squeeze out some growth for that quarter, without thinking about the long term. In China, they think in terms of fiscal centuries. They'll take loss after loss for years, if they think decades from now it'll pay dividends.

---

And yet China has been a third world agrarian society for all of the past 5000 years except the current era when the U.S. lifted them out of poverty for strategic purposes. You sound like you're trying to say that thinking in terms of centuries is somehow a winning strategy for China which is illogical given what's actually happened. They've existed in some form or fashion for 50 centuries and have been the dominant global force for exactly zero of them. When does their payoff for that long term focus come? Meanwhile we are 250 years old and run the world and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

What am I missing here?

---

I'm talking about more recently, in terms of thinking long term. Our companies think in terms of fiscal quarters and years, but our politicians think in terms of election cycles. Getting a little off topic, but still relevant. What is good in the short term to get elected/reelected. Not necessarily what is going to keep the US at an economic/educational/industrial/innovative advantage over everyone else. How do we keep innovators here, in the US, instead of outsourcing our R&D to cheaper scientists in India?

If a company is under so much pressure to produce growth, and cut expenses, does the CEO really care what happens to the company in 10 years after he's long retired? If he can get stock prices to go up for the next few years, he'll get his bonus, and retire rich. And maybe even the next CEO will inherit an upward trajectory. But eventually momentum switches. And we see it all the time, companies have boom and bust cycles because they start looking purely at how to maximize profit. And then go through a few CEOs, maybe even a bankruptcy, till someone can figure out how to fix them.

Looking at China from a thousand years ago and comparing it to China today is a pointless exercise. Just like comparing England during the Industrial revolution and England today. China has gone from an economy that relies on knocking off intellectual property from everyone else, to one that actually is starting to innovate themselves. We use far more oil per dollar of economic output than China does and they're slowly becoming less and less dependent on oil than we are. Their middle class has been rapidly expanding. Ours has been shrinking.

Our biggest advantage was WWII, and being insulated by two oceans. We were able to get out of the great depression with massive government war time spending, while other countries (China, Russia, Europe) all suffered immensely. As time goes on, the advantage WWII gave us is shrinking. How do we keep ahead of everyone else as they're trying to catch up?

---

Lots to unpack here and I appreciate the detailed explanation of where you are. For the record I do think our short term focus is all things is a problem. Corporations are too short term oriented and quarterly profits and stock prices do trump all else which isn't a healthy mindset for a business. The constant pursuit of reelection is also a terrible way to run a country as well so all good points.

The bottom line truth of American world dominance is that we're a Bob Ross painting in real life. We're the happy mistake of low friction government and the greatest abundance of natural resources anywhere on earth. We have more navigable waterways than all other countries combined. That matters because shipping on water is 10x cheaper than rail which is many times cheaper than truck. We have more energy supplies than we can consume in multiple lifetimes and a huge abundance of so called rare earth minerals. The only way we can screw up our massive advantage in natural resources is to get away from low friction government which is a core focus of one major party who is desperate to control all that wealth.

Let's talk about the state of China for a minute. Most of what they publish about their economy is probably nonsense. We don't know if their middle class even exists. We do know middle class isn't a hallmark of communism so why would they be different? Their government is the polar opposite of low friction which is a major competitive disadvantage and always will be unless the Democrats succeed to imposing communism here. Central planning will never foster the creativity capitalism will, it's just not possible. The best and brightest come here because the system encourages innovation and that's a uniquely American mindset.

The simple truth is China has mediocre natural resources including poor navigable waterways and mediocre soil when it comes to food production. They import well over half of their food making them extremely reliant on the U.S. lead world order just to eat. They're working to reduce their reliance on oil because they import over 70% of what they need which makes them extremely dependent on the U.S. lead world order for energy. Sensing a theme here? The one natural resource they do have in abundance is coal and they're doing their best to maximize its use as a replacement for oil. That's why we're seeing so much focus on EV because coal can be out into a car to power it, but it can be put into a plant to generate electricity for a fleet of EV.

If China wants to learn to invent instead of steal that's great for them and ultimately for the world as some awesome new stuff will come out of that. I'll believe it when I see it. I don't for a minute believe that a nation that historically has no middle class suddenly has an expanding one at the same time their overall population is shrinking. That's illogical. If Europe is being conquered by Islam then China is being conquered by old age, they're aging faster than any nation on earth not called Russia. They became the world's largest manufacturer by trading cheap labor for food and energy but their ability to provide that cheap labor are over which is why we're seeing corporations leaving, the economics don't work anymore.

There's an overall tendency in the U.S. to think it's all about to come crashing down and we're going to lose our competitive advantage to China. 50 years ago we were losing the Cold War to the Soviets who it turns out were on the verge of economic collapse. China isn't capable of surpassing the U.S. as the dominant economy because we're the only consumer base of note. An economic war where we stopped buying their crap would be the end of China as a world power because there's no one else to buy their crap and without that they don't have the money to buy food or oil. See where this ends?

We're a disaster politically in large part because the federal government was never meant to be what it has become which is a behemoth that has its hands in every aspect of our lives. Decentralization has created a messy system that is a PITA to navigate but I'll take that any day over what an all controlling centralized government would look like.

---

I think the real question is whether China can go from being the cheap manufacturing powerhouse to actually leading in innovation. They've got plenty of smart people and great manufacturing infrastructure, but coming up with original ideas and turning them into something useful is a different ballgame. Companies like Davison Inventions are a good reminder that coming up with an idea is one thing, but actually developing and protecting it is another. It'll be interesting to see how China handles that transition over the next decade.