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It's all about parenting and embracing the role of passing on all the highes and lows of lived experiences. I think many families have gotten away from real family time and real conversation. Allowing everyone in a household to just live their own algorithm driven social media experience all day everyday. We are not perfect but I do believe our household provided a well balanced experience of old school family activities mixed with a little modern stuff just as a way to understand the current cultural moments. That has produced some pretty awesome young adults.

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So much this. Modern life is so hectic now, families don't spend family time to just talk and share daily stuff.

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but also life is less fair.

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Life has never been fair.

One of the first truths of life my dad taught me when I was a kid.

To make it "fair" means everyone is equally miserable.

These threads stereotyping whole generations are always ******ed. This is as dumb as the whiny threads crying about boomers.

MEEN Ag 05 said:

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And now without Chuck Norris they are totally screwed...

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RIP Ranger

Rapier108 said:

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but also life is less fair.

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Life has never been fair.

One of the first truths of life my dad taught me when I was a kid.

To make it "fair" means everyone is equally miserable.

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I will just say they face certain challenges previous generations didn't. I am not advocating for socialism here.

In his mid 20's, my father was able to get the first home for our family for like $70k in Houston, on a salary of $35-40k I believe. Zoned to solid schools.

This is just one example, but you understand how something like home ownership is much more difficult for people in their 20's and 30's now right? It was tough for us to buy our first home in 2013 to be honest, but I am thankful I am not in my upper 20's low 30's trying to buy our first home now.

I think a lot of us would have turned out differently had social media been an integral part of our daily lives too. Takes humility to put yourself in other peoples shoes. Some of the founding fathers would have been deadbeats if born in the early 2000's.

Story time:

After breaking my leg in Jr. High, I spent a summer beating Battle Toads. This is a game where, if you ran out of lives before you beat it, you had to start all the way from the beginning. Those side scroller games were a beast. While I have been pretty competitive in some of the more recent cooperative games, beating that game is still probably my hardest gaming achievement. It was just brutal.

I never did beat Ghosts n Goblins the second time through. When NES modulators came out, I used saved game states just to get some closure on that beast of a game.

But, none of that made me a more determined person, just a socially awkward geek until after a few years of college.

I don't get the not wanting to drive or get their license. That was like a right of passage growing up. Me and all my friends could not wait until the day we could drive.

Enviroag02 said:

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I think we've all heard the reports about Gen Z. They don't want to work. They don't want to drive. They don't want to get married. They don't want kids.

I'm actually seeing this play out in my nieces and nephews. First, they weren't in a rush to get their drivers license when they turned 16. What the heck is that about? Then they dropped college courses because they weren't motivated. Now they're saying there is no hope for them to be able to obtain a job that will provide them with the life comforts that their parents provided for them. They have no interest in entry level jobs. They can't see beyond the first few years an envision what a career might look like. In fact, one of nephews' dream is become an economics college professor, but he's not willing to go to school for it because he doesn't think that profession will pay enough. He grew up in a household with an income > 350,000/yr.

Where is this all coming from? Is it the relative successes of Gen X and Y setting unrealistic expectations or is it a lack of motivation and vision driven by a reliance on social media and its inherent unrealistic expectations?

This won't end well.

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My take on this is that the amount of effort it takes to be more successful these days for entry level people into large organizations just isn't worth the incremental return. The variance in pay between a top 5% employee and a top 50% employee just isn't enough for most of these kids. Honestly, I don't blame them, especially if they are white guys trying to compete in corporate America.

The good news is this is all going to sort itself out with AI. The kids that are willing to use it and become super efficient are going to make a LOT more money, either on their own or as a stellar performer. The kids that don't want to work too hard are going to be able to use it to skate buy, and they will likely be happy.

People today have lost trust in American institutions, and for good reason. They are all rotten. The rot is bad enough, and the leverage that AI provides young companies strong enough, that I predict that there will be a period of creative destruction where entrepreneurism has a strong surge for the next 5 years. Overhead across the board is falling fast. When you lower overhead costs in an industry, you invite more start-up competition, because covering overhead is the number 1 challenge of most start-ups. Hard working kids will just turn entrepreneur either in AI or in some profession where you are moving atoms instead of bits. Kids that want to turn the crank in corporate America are not going to have similar incomes to their parents.

1981 Monte Carlo said:

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It's the first generation truly staring a dystopian future in the face. The first in a long time to have it worse than their parents. Social media, pop culture and hyper consumerism has done a number on them. Can't blame it on drugs or booze because it is the most sober generation.

Lot's of concernig trends and will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I am hoping that it somehow results in a lot of people having children later in life. While there are societal "cons" to that, we could use a generation raised by older, more mature, and morally upright people that have significant actual life experienc under their belt. Most clearly aren't mature enough to have and raise children now.

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Great post ground in reality. My kids do not and will not have it better than me. Whether it's home ownership, job opportunities, or marrying prospects.

And yes, they are a very sober generation for the most part. And at the same time completely addles by tech addiction, social media, and epidemic level of mental health problems.

I can see both of my boys waiting longer to get married and having kids, which I don't like, but it seems to be the reality of things.

Buck Turgidson said:

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These threads stereotyping whole generations are always ******ed. This is as dumb as the whiny threads crying about boomers.

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The generalities exist because they are generally true. But, there are always exceptions.

For example, for every 10 white guys that can't dunk and make a living jacking up threes, there is a Jason Williams out there with mad handles. And then you have the rare Big Shot Bob black guy that drops threes like a red-headed Hoosier.

Generalities are useful to examine large groups of people, and terrible at thinking about individuals.

javajaws said:

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Their entire generation grew up without any hardships - they are spoiled and never learned any of the hard lessons they need to survive.

There is a saying I like to use for which the inverse applies here: Through adversity comes greatness.

No adversity...no greatness.

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My nephews are in college close to me, and I get to spend a lot of time with them and their friends. Go talk to some of today's 18-22yr olds. Get some perspective on their lives. Think back to when you were that age. It takes time to figure out the world, and the world is rapidly changing for these kids.

These kids were young during the 08 recession, but it still impacted them and their families. They dealt with the GWOT and ripples of 9/11 their entire lives. They had to deal with the screwed up identity politics that crept into schools and impacted their learning and environments, and worst of all they had to deal with the covid scam. Many of these kids spent several years at home, isolated from their friends, while not actually being taught. They missed important milestones because school administrators got the vapors. That made a very measurable impact in their lives and world perspectives.

Now, right as they reach the age of maturity, the entire world is being turned on end with potential for WWIII, a potential civil war, another global recession, and the looming possibility that AI will take away many jobs right as they hit the workforce.

I'm not sure your age, but I'd say most of that is more adversity than those of us who grew up in the 80s/90s dealt with.

sorry don't mind me

I remember buying the original Zelda game because i just happened to show up to the toy store in the mall on the day it arrived there and had the $50 in my pocket from my paperrout job. Didn't intend to buy anything that day but the gold cartridge and weird name told me to take a chance. The guy behind the counter didn't know anything other than he just put it on the shelf that morning.

Got home and was immediately mystified at the concept and game play. A few days later several of my friends had also bought it and it was a race to see who would finish first.

Urban Ag said:

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1981 Monte Carlo said:

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It's the first generation truly staring a dystopian future in the face. The first in a long time to have it worse than their parents. Social media, pop culture and hyper consumerism has done a number on them. Can't blame it on drugs or booze because it is the most sober generation.

Lot's of concernig trends and will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I am hoping that it somehow results in a lot of people having children later in life. While there are societal "cons" to that, we could use a generation raised by older, more mature, and morally upright people that have significant actual life experienc under their belt. Most clearly aren't mature enough to have and raise children now.

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Great post ground in reality. My kids do not and will not have it better than me. Whether it's home ownership, job opportunities, or marrying prospects.

And yes, they are a very sober generation for the most part. And at the same time completely addles by tech addiction, social media, and epidemic level of mental health problems.

I can see both of my boys waiting longer to get married and having kids, which I don't like, but it seems to be the reality of things.

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There are potential benefits to this imo. We had trouble having children and thought we couldn't and basically gave up. Then we had the world's greatest "accident" during the pandemic and I ended up having my first and only child just after turning 40.

I am more traditional and conservative than many younger parents with children at the same age. I see it with some of the fellow "older" dads as well. We have more of a Gen X/upper millennial "edge" that some younger folks don't have and are trying to raise our children like we had it in the 80's and 90's. Might do our society some good to have this type of reset...people tend to be wiser and more conservative, and "realist", in their older years. Also more religious.

I am hoping this ends up being good medicine for society.

1981 Monte Carlo said:

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Can't blame it on drugs or booze because it is the most sober generation.

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The large scale adoption of THC abuse would like a word.

They might not be drunk, but they are often high.

It's a thing but it's always easier to parent kids away from it. I feel confident that my daughter is ready to leave home and be indepedent now. We allow her to do a lot of things that make us nervous(fly alone to Paris to see family friends, drive to SA for concerts) but she comes out of them with flying colors. You have to allow your child to make mistakes for them to grow and be independent.

We also hold her accountable for chores around the house, grades, and money. Some call us old fashion but my kid is thriving. We also kept her off of social media for a long time.

Just be their parent and not their friend. We're transitioning from being her parent to being more friendly and it's great but it could be challenging at times.

BusterAg said:

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1981 Monte Carlo said:

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Can't blame it on drugs or booze because it is the most sober generation.

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The large scale adoption of THC abuse would like a word.

They might not be drunk, but they are often high.

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Got any data...in particular when it comes to white/latino Gen Z males vs same in the prior generation? I have heard otherwise, but it would make sense that you are correct as it is much more available and prevalent. Hell, most of my buddies in their 40's take edibles now on the golf course, at the ranch, to sleep etc.

It's coming from social media and now kids have the attention span of ants

on the other hand, my cousins (I am like their uncle but technically they are the kids of my first cousin) are going to be very successful.

they are not intellectuals, but I am helping them get set up in investing in brokerages online and they already have several thousand dollars of savings from working during high school and college.

two are in universities in Arizona and the third will be graduating high school

they are great kids.

Most Americans won't realize this now

but when social media is filled with racists, homophobes, anti-semites, ethnocentrics, Nazis, conspiracy theorists, get rich quick schemes, lambos, hook up culture

It would literally be impossible to NOT have a deleterious effect on the youth of the West.

when all they see and hear is a cesspool of hate from the left and far right- do you think that makes them want to study hard and work hard for the next FORTY years to be successful?

or is it more like Weimar Germany in the 1920s?

My interaction with Gen Z has actually been more on the positive side. The new hires on our teams the last 4-5 years have been incredible. Highly motivated, hard working, and innovative. They've been pure grinders.

Yes, I've come across some not great ones, but overall I've been pretty impressed and pleased so far.

Yeah, Ive seen some really great Gen Zers. I think what you are seeing is kids that came from a household where parents earned over $350k and know nothing else.

Go find a Gen Zer that grew up in a working class household and you'll find independent and motivated kids because they still had to work for what they wanted.

1981 Monte Carlo said:

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BusterAg said:

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1981 Monte Carlo said:

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Can't blame it on drugs or booze because it is the most sober generation.

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The large scale adoption of THC abuse would like a word.

They might not be drunk, but they are often high.

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Got any data...in particular when it comes to white/latino Gen Z males vs same in the prior generation? I have heard otherwise, but it would make sense that you are correct as it is much more available and prevalent. Hell, most of my buddies in their 40's take edibles now on the golf course, at the ranch, to sleep etc.

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Here is what Gemeni says:

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Data indicates that while overall cannabis consumption rates among teenagers have fluctuated, the intensity of use (daily use) and potency of THC consumed have increased over the last 20 years. Key data points include a 245% increase in adolescent cannabis abuse cases from 20002020 and significantly higher THC potency compared to previous decades.

Evidence of Increased/Intense Adolescent THC Use

• Significant Rise in Abuse/Misuse: A study using national poison data found that intentional cannabis abuse/misuse among teens aged 1318 increased by roughly 245% over the 20-year period ending in 2020.
• High-Potency Products: Cannabis products today contain two to three times more THC than in the past. Modern products like dabs and waxes can have up to 99% purity.
• Rise in Daily Use: Data shows that daily cannabis use among 8th, 10th, and 12th graders now exceeds their daily cigarette use, with daily use increasing in recent years, particularly in grades 10 and 12.
• Vaping Trends: The introduction of vaping has increased consumption, with up to 14% of 12th graders reporting vaping marijuana in 2019/2020.
• Declining Risk Perception: The share of high school seniors who view regular marijuana use as dangerous dropped from 58% in 2000 to 36% in 2024, often resulting in higher usage rates.
  

Contextual Data Trends
It is important to note that some datasets suggest a more nuanced picture. While abuse cases and potency have increased, overall prevalence (the number of teens who have tried it at least once) showed a decrease from roughly 2011 to 2021, and a significant drop in lifetime use since peaks in the late 1990s, according to some analyses of the Youth Risk Behavior Survey.

Key Trends Summary

• Highest Usage Rates: 12th graders consistently report the highest usage, with around 30% of them reporting usage within the past year.
• Demographic Shift: Recent data shows that the gender gap is closing, with females now reporting similar or even higher usage rates in some studies compared to males.
• Drug Substitution: Many adolescents who use cannabis now do not smoke tobacco, indicating a shift away from traditional smoking to other consumption methods.

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If you know any kids in high-school, they will tell you that most people use THC or THC analog products. And, the potency of THC products has increased exponentially, as well.

The kids these days that aren't drinking or smoking tobacco are just devouring gummies and vape pens.

Rapier108 said:

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Enviroag02 said:

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Where is this all coming from?

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Between what they're constantly fed on social media, and many have been raised to believe they deserve "the best" from the word go, they simply cannot understand why they don't deserve to make $100,000+ from the first day on the job, or make $50 an hour for part time work.

They are the instant gratification generation.

Generation Zombie:

They are a self centered, destructive generation that cannot think and cannot feel, so they create causes to make themselves feel important.

They are empty inside and have nothing real to offer society as their entire reality is the fake world of TikTok and Instagram.

They are largely uneducated, but believe they are highly educated because many have a worthless college degree. They also believe they are always right in all situations, and to disagree with them is always racism, sexism, hatred, bigotry, homo/trans-phobia, or some other made up word.

This is what happens when you give folks participation awards instead of pushing them to achieve, and not kicking them in the ass when they get out of line.

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we can't leave out the effect that leftist brainwashing and propaganda

from elementary school through graduate school has on the "educated" population.

I guess I'll take the opposite view. My situation is different than most of you.

I'm 69. My son turned 23 two months ago. It was just he and I from the time he was 3. At 20 he told me he hated college and wasn't going back. Tough pill to swallow but I did. I told him he could stay for 6 months and then he had to go regardless what was going on. I packed my stuff up and moved 1200 miles away and said when I returned in 6 months to get rid of the house he was on his own.

Fast forward to now. He's 23, makes more money than I did at 40, owns a home, is a Spurs season ticket holder and engaged to a girl 4 rungs up the ladder from him.

The day I drove away neither of us knew the outcome but it couldn't have worked out better. Some of his friends are good kids but IMO are enabled by parents to avoid the adult world. Tough love worked for us.

Jaydoug said:

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If you really want to know….

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I'm on a school council for small Catholic school in SA and the Priest and Principal had us read that last year. It was stuff I already knew or assumed but really drove point home on how social media is evil and destroys developing brains.
The school has a no phones policy and works with Smart Families to spread awareness and try and get more families on board with limiting phones and social media. Unfortunately the families who show up to the events, like our family, already limit these things. We don't the families who really need to hear the messaging to attend. It's a generational thing it seems. Those of us parents that are end of Gen X with middles schoolers are limiting technology while the younger Millennial parents don't seem to care what their kids do on a phone. There are exceptions in both generations of course.

Wow! Gross generalization talking about a whole generation.

Possibly a parenting problem? Were the children taught that their parents were wealthy? Did the parents instill in them the desire to "do hard things" including work? Did the parents set expectations about their education, both in high school, and for after (college, trade school, military)?

Yes, some children make incredibly poor choices but for all "nieces & nephews" to be making the same choices is both interesting and likely not coincidental.

As a devils advocate, I am a parent of 4 "Generation Z" children and we do not have this issue with any of ours.

Enviroag02 said:

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I think we've all heard the reports about Gen Z. They don't want to work. They don't want to drive. They don't want to get married. They don't want kids.

I'm actually seeing this play out in my nieces and nephews. First, they weren't in a rush to get their drivers license when they turned 16. What the heck is that about? Then they dropped college courses because they weren't motivated. Now they're saying there is no hope for them to be able to obtain a job that will provide them with the life comforts that their parents provided for them. They have no interest in entry level jobs. They can't see beyond the first few years an envision what a career might look like. In fact, one of nephews' dream is become an economics college professor, but he's not willing to go to school for it because he doesn't think that profession will pay enough. He grew up in a household with an income > 350,000/yr.

Where is this all coming from? Is it the relative successes of Gen X and Y setting unrealistic expectations or is it a lack of motivation and vision driven by a reliance on social media and its inherent unrealistic expectations?

This won't end well.

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This is because their parents are stupid dunderheads.

It is as simple as that. If one raises their kids right, there is a very very good chance they will turn out right. If the parents give them a free pass on everything, then they will up being wastrels who amount to nothing.

I blame the parents, not the kids.

A good number of youth today no longer believe in American Exceptionalism. They have been told on social media that everything in America sucks and they should have no hope for the future. Many sit in their bubble doom scrolling SM. If they go out and hustle and succeed then they are just a part of what's wrong with America so they sit there and whine on Reddit about their life.

I have some sympathy for these a-holes, honestly.

Between being effed up by Covid on social development, social media, and now the oncoming AI revolution (Im sorry, olds, but this is effing real, and it will change how all work is done), I can see why they have a sense of doom.

The driving thing is just baffling for me. I was at the DMV the morning of my 16th birthday and was grateful it wasn't a weekend. I don't understand this trend, I understand they have Uber and other things and if they live in a city may not need to, but it's not a good thing to be afraid. It's just another sign of NOT wanting independence.

These parents need to push their children to be more independent. And what pisses me off the most is a lot of these parents are Gen X, which is my generation and we were NOT raised like this. I have never even thought this way personally. Thankfully my friends are all have their **** together, and their kids are normal, but I think many of them just want to be friends with their kids, rather than parents.

My wife's niece and nephew are 20 and 22 and neither have DLs. A few years back I asked the nephew why and he said he doesn't need one. Most of his interaction with friends is online and if he does want to meet up in person he takes an Uber or rides his bike. He lives in suburban Austin. Of course he has no girlfriend so no complication there.

bonfarr said:

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A good number of youth today no longer believe in American Exceptionalism. They have been told on social media that everything in America sucks and they should have no hope for the future. Many sit in their bubble doom scrolling SM. If they go out and hustle and succeed then they are just a part of what's wrong with America so they sit there and whine on Reddit about their life.

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I will tell you that there are plenty of kids who go out and hustle and succeed. Maybe lower numbers than before but they are killing it.

Buck Turgidson said:

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These threads stereotyping whole generations are always ******ed. This is as dumb as the whiny threads crying about boomers.

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Completely agree.

I do think that the environment growing up for Gen Z was pretty tough. Social media, screens, Covid, the worst schools ever (in general), distracted parents (in general)...

Of course not as bad as the great depression or WW2. Except the harm was focused on the young, instead of an adversity shared across society.

Many are thriving. Many are not.

bonfarr said:

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My wife's niece and nephew are 20 and 22 and neither have DLs. A few years back I asked the nephew why and he said he doesn't need one. Most of his interaction with friends is online and if he does want to meet up in person he takes an Uber or rides his bike. He lives in suburban Austin. Of course he has no girlfriend so no complication there.

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I still think it's very strange. But if it works for them, I guess. I couldn't imagine going through life not knowing how to or wanting to drive though. Makes me wonder why in the world both these kids would not ever wanna drive. Did the parents do anything?

Buck Turgidson said:

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These threads stereotyping whole generations are always ******ed. This is as dumb as the whiny threads crying about boomers.

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Agreed. Having said that, Gen X is the best generation that grew up in peak America.

It does seem in general that generations tend to overcompensate for the perceived shortcomings of the previous generation, good or bad.