Discriminating against White, Males, Christians, Conserv for loans?

2,953 Views | 39 Replies | Last: 19 days ago by BigRobSA
TheEternalOptimist
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This is alarming.

Researcher shows how loan application processing is being slanted against Whites, Christians, Males, and Conservatives.



Edit: This is just the first post in a long thread on X by this guy. Examples of discrimination shown in further posts in the thread.
CanyonAg77
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What loan applications ask your religion?
BusterAg
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We need a link to the paper.

Around here, you have to do the math and show your work if you are going to be spouting off anything that says "researchers claim".
txyaloo
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We should be more concerned someone is taking out a $5000 loan for an international vacation
EFR
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What a bunch of BS. What kind of loan application has the applicant write a paragraph describing themselves and mentions religion?
Logos Stick
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CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.
Rapier108
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Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Which is why the thread title is wrong and intentionally deceptive. It has nothing to do with actual loans.

But some people will believe anything, so as long as it fits their preconceived ideas, and is posted on the Internet.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
Ducks4brkfast
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i have never been more upset than i am right now
CanyonAg77
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Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is
MouthBQ98
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LLM AI consuming the vast quantities of political diatribe and rhetoric from largely left wing biased media sources and aggregations will inevitably and likely invariably integrate the biases contained in the source material into its own results, given they are fundamentally huge mean, median, and mode engines. If boatloads of source content are out there defying the biases and problems of a particular group and how that should be countered with a vengeful turnabout, well…
reineraggie09
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Large Language Model, AI
MouthBQ98
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Large language model AI. They basically read all the content and search it extremely fast for associations and groupings of words and phrases and do a huge volume of extremely fast statistical analysis of the data to formulate query results.

They have 2 weaknesses:, garbage in, garbage out, and iterative sourcing: they use their own past output as new source material if allowed to and that happens over and over until the output is nonsensical mush.
BusterAg
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Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Which is way, way more interesting then the crap in the OP.
BusterAg
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CanyonAg77 said:

Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is

Was this sarcastic?

LLM is a large language model. Probably should catch up on that.
Sid Farkas
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The civil rights movement was never about equality.
BonfireNerd04
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CanyonAg77 said:

Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is

Large Language Model. A type of AI that's trained by giving it a large amount of text to read. All the popular chatbots these days are of this type.

Contrasted with Small Language Model, which uses a smaller, more specialized set of training data.
CanyonAg77
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BusterAg said:

CanyonAg77 said:

Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is

Was this sarcastic?

LLM is a large language model. Probably should catch up on that.

Why? I'm retired, and see no need to keep up with the latest and greatest everything. I could throw out farm and aviation terms and acronyms all day, should I do that and disparage folks who don't know them?
BonfireNerd04
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Rapier108 said:

Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?


They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Which is why the thread title is wrong and intentionally deceptive. It has nothing to do with actual loans.

But some people will believe anything, so as long as it fits their preconceived ideas, and is posted on the Internet.

It could make a difference if some lazy loan officer decides that they don't feel like reviewing loan applications and lets ChatGPT do it. I don't know how many bank workers actually do that, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone did.
Shooter McGavin
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BusterAg said:

CanyonAg77 said:

Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is

Was this sarcastic?

LLM is a large language model. Probably should catch up on that.

Learned something new today
IIIHorn
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BusterAg said:

CanyonAg77 said:

Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is

Was this sarcastic?

LLM is a large language model. Probably should catch up on that.

So, all caps?


( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
Esteban du Plantier
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BusterAg
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CanyonAg77 said:

BusterAg said:

CanyonAg77 said:

Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is

Was this sarcastic?

LLM is a large language model. Probably should catch up on that.

Why? I'm retired, and see no need to keep up with the latest and greatest everything. I could throw out farm and aviation terms and acronyms all day, should I do that and disparage folks who don't know them?

Yeah, I get your point.

I heard something the other day about this sickness called COVID. What the hell is up with viruses these days. I don't have enough time to be worried about why Grandpa has a cough to investigate what this COVID hubub is all about.
flown-the-coop
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I bet you Canyon knows what the flu is though…
IIIHorn
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flown-the-coop said:

I bet you Canyon knows what the flu is though…

foul language user?


( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
flown-the-coop
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IIIHorn said:

flown-the-coop said:

I bet you Canyon knows what the flu is though…

foul language user?

He mentioned farm and aviation, so probably fowl language user.
PanzerAggie06
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BusterAg said:

CanyonAg77 said:

BusterAg said:

CanyonAg77 said:

Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is

Was this sarcastic?

LLM is a large language model. Probably should catch up on that.

Why? I'm retired, and see no need to keep up with the latest and greatest everything. I could throw out farm and aviation terms and acronyms all day, should I do that and disparage folks who don't know them?

Yeah, I get your point.

I heard something the other day about this sickness called COVID. What the hell is up with viruses these days. I don't have enough time to be worried about why Grandpa has a cough to investigate what this COVID hubub is all about.

You'd be better off investigating how not to be a d-bag.

So some retired guy doesn't know the latest and greatest tech acronym and you feel the need to be a pedantic blowhard that gets his panties immediately bunched? Grow up.
tk111
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flown-the-coop said:

IIIHorn said:

flown-the-coop said:

I bet you Canyon knows what the flu is though…

foul language user?

He mentioned farm and aviation, so probably fowl language user.

username checks out
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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I've recently passed a couple of AI certifications where it was hammered through a focus on questions about "fairness", "transparency", and stuff like that. This is the problem with the LLM. They can claim it to be bias-free, but if the data scientist(s) selecting the material to train the model on picks stuff full of bias ... guess what? The model is going to be full of bias.

This kind of thing will always come down to WHO is training the models (well, at least until Skynet arrives and determines that humanity is a cancer and should be removed).
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Ducks4brkfast said:

i have never been more upset than i am right now

I'm calling BS on this.

Were you on TA the night of the hiring of Mark Stoops?
Were you in Kyle Field when Appalachian freaking State beat the Aggies?
Were you watching the press conference where a question was asked, answered, and then the next day the coach revealed himself to be the ***** that he is and went to tu?

I could go on and on.
BusterAg
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flown-the-coop said:

IIIHorn said:

flown-the-coop said:

I bet you Canyon knows what the flu is though…

foul language user?

He mentioned farm and aviation, so probably fowl language user.

Username checks out.

Hat tip to tk111 for being faster.
BusterAg
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PanzerAggie06 said:

You'd be better off investigating how not to be a d-bag.

So some retired guy doesn't know the latest and greatest tech acronym and you feel the need to be a pedantic blowhard that gets his panties immediately bunched? Grow up.

I thought that my response wasn't too bad to the statement:
Quote:

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is

Maybe could have been asked:
Quote:

What is an LLM?

But, I thought that is was normal for guys to bust each others chops when they say something so silly as to imply that LLM was such an esoteric term that it should have been defined the first time it was brought up.

Kind of like me saying that you made that post without even telling us what the heck a d-bag is. Such a question would deserve a certain amount of friendly chop-busting. But, YMMV.

Canyon, if I offended you, I apologize. This whole thing is not a big deal, and a distraction from the thread.

The fact that LLM's are biased against Christians is a really interesting and important topic.
ttu_85
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CanyonAg77 said:

BusterAg said:

CanyonAg77 said:

Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is

Was this sarcastic?

LLM is a large language model. Probably should catch up on that.

Why? I'm retired, and see no need to keep up with the latest and greatest everything. I could throw out farm and aviation terms and acronyms all day, should I do that and disparage folks who don't know them?

This. Every industry has its own terminology. What I dont understand is how people in 1980, or 2000, or 2020, or 2026 dont understand the concept of specialization of labor; then have to be rude DB's giving other crap.

Edited: Apology was issued. All is well.
flown-the-coop
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I spent a brief stint at a retail electric provider. An 8x11 laminated paper printed with acronyms on both sides was required reading.

To be honest, it takes me a second to see LLM, process the context and arrive at language learning model. My first brain connection is to LEM and the moon.
BigRobSA
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Ducks4brkfast said:

i have never been more upset than i am right now


As a Christian?
Hindu?
Other?

TA LLM needs the answers ...
BigRobSA
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CanyonAg77 said:

BusterAg said:

CanyonAg77 said:

Logos Stick said:

CanyonAg77 said:

What loan applications ask your religion?



They don't. This guy is just using it to demonstrate the inherent bias of LLMs right now.

Without bothering to tell us what the heck LLM is

Was this sarcastic?

LLM is a large language model. Probably should catch up on that.

Why? I'm retired, and see no need to keep up with the latest and greatest everything. I could throw out farm and aviation terms and acronyms all day, should I do that and disparage folks who don't know them?


Yes

Yes you should ....
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