samurai_science said:

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I love strip mining for new batteries!

The extraction of key minerals like lithium, cobalt, and nickel are great for everyone!

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Dig baby dig

shiftyandquick said:

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I'm imagining all the folks that said the same thing about horses when cars first came out. Way too expensive, breaks down, impractical. Will never catch on, just a fad,etc.

Electric cars will eventually win out because they will be much simpler and cheaper and more reliable. ICE engines and transmissions are very complicated.

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There will need to be room for both. There is nothing particularly complicated about ice engines either. Our grandparents and every backwoods guy from here to Virginia worked on them in their garage.

To work on an EV you'd need to have a team of software and electrical engineers as your disposal.

Sometimes I think you purposefully try to say the most ridiculous and uninformed thing imaginable.

At least people are awaking to the truth they are not better for the environment.

samurai_science said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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I'm imagining all the folks that said the same thing about horses when cars first came out. Way too expensive, breaks down, impractical. Will never catch on, just a fad,etc.

Electric cars will eventually win out because they will be much simpler and cheaper and more reliable. ICE engines and transmissions are very complicated.

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Start a thread when it happens (cheaper) because that has been the prediction for 10 years.

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It has already arrived. The issue is that they can't be sold in USA. Chinese cars.

When I went to Australia Chinese cars were everywhere.

shiftyandquick said:

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samurai_science said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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I'm imagining all the folks that said the same thing about horses when cars first came out. Way too expensive, breaks down, impractical. Will never catch on, just a fad,etc.

Electric cars will eventually win out because they will be much simpler and cheaper and more reliable. ICE engines and transmissions are very complicated.

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Start a thread when it happens (cheaper) because that has been the prediction for 10 years.

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It has already arrived. The issue is that they can't be sold in USA. Chinese cars.

When I went to Australia Chinese cars were everywhere.

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You want to flood the US market with cheap Chinese cars?

TRX said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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I think we ought to be promoting plug-in hybrids. They have most of the benefits of electric vehicles, but have a built-in answer to the questions "What if I don't have access to a charger?" and "What if my battery range isn't far enough?" that discourage people from buying EVs. You just fill up at a gas station like you always have.

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Why does it have to plug in at all though? Just charge while you drive with gas and use the battery when appropriate. I'm pretty sure this is existing tech.

I'm not buying a road vehicle that needs to be plugged in ever.

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Because a plug in hybrid means you don't use gas at all most of the time. You very rarely have to stop at a gas station. You're not spending money on gas and your not wasting your time to fill up, which is really nice - once you realize the benefit of that you don't really want to give it up. If you need to take a road trip, no problem. You will never worry about finding a charge station, waiting for a charge, or running out of charge. Your car also has electric car performance- instant torque and quick acceleration.

In exchange, you plug in your car when you get out of it in your garage. That's the ONLY time you need to do it. The plug is hanging right there as you get out, takes 3 seconds to do and it's on your way to the door to the house.

On top of all that, you aren't contributing to air pollution, the real kind that still plagues our cities. If you are worried about CO2 (I'm not) there is that advantage as well.

Plug in hybrids should have been the push all along.

Old Sarge said:

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150k?

Really?

The market should play out here.

I have a Tacoma that just rolled up 90k this week. 6cyl, naturally aspirated. I expect to get well into the 200k range, if not more, as it's only 5.5 years old.

Why should I have to pay 25-30% more for a F-ing hybrid if I DONT WANT IT? My truck costs considerably less and will last longer, retain better resale at 150k.

It's a sham.

I hope Toyota looses their pants because of what they've done. Horribly damaging financially. Get some brains and BALLS and offer naturally aspirated motors in their trucks and SUVs again. Likely would be well over 70% of truck and SUV models sold. Give us what we want, jackasses.

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I'm a little puzzled why you're replying to me as I didn't make contradictory statements to almost anything you said. All I was saying was that the fear tactics regarding hybrid batteries are massively out of whack and outdated. Heck, not that long ago, I never dreamed I'd drive a hybrid. With my job, anytime I'm going out of town, I'm flying, so having a car that focused on efficient in town driving, just fit my life too practically to ignore.

What I didn't do in any way - nor would I ever - was argue for any form of vehicle mandates. I also am very much not in the electric vehicle camp. You don't like government mandates forcing the market? Great, me neither! You want a truck that's not a hybrid without government mandate driven add ons? Great for that too!

Two things can be true at the same time.

Toyota hybrids can be fantastic and market supported. The desire for trucks we were all used to can be wanted/needed. Trucks can last a long time. The villainous Prius pretty commonly also makes it into the 250k miles driven range. Don't let your emotions get in the way of freedom for both sides?

Teslag said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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samurai_science said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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I'm imagining all the folks that said the same thing about horses when cars first came out. Way too expensive, breaks down, impractical. Will never catch on, just a fad,etc.

Electric cars will eventually win out because they will be much simpler and cheaper and more reliable. ICE engines and transmissions are very complicated.

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Start a thread when it happens (cheaper) because that has been the prediction for 10 years.

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It has already arrived. The issue is that they can't be sold in USA. Chinese cars.

When I went to Australia Chinese cars were everywhere.

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You want to flood the US market with cheap Chinese cars?

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No. I'm just saying that the only thing is preventing cheap EVs from taking over is trade policy. Because those cheap cars are already here and they are only going to get cheaper as the technology evolves, i.e. capacitors or whatever else comes to be.

When Toyota comes out with the their breakthrough capacitor that's going to permanently alter the market. But not to the extent that allowing cheap Chinese cars would.

shiftyandquick said:

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I'm imagining all the folks that said the same thing about horses when cars first came out. Way too expensive, breaks down, impractical. Will never catch on, just a fad,etc.

Electric cars will eventually win out because they will be much simpler and cheaper and more reliable. ICE engines and transmissions are very complicated.

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Utopia is just around the corner. It has been for years now. But it's just around the corner.

The problem for the US is that it's a market that doesn't want cars. We want big trucks and big SUV's and slightly smaller crossovers. And the battery tech won't be there to power these classes any time soon with the range ease and quick refill of ice.

Old Sarge said:

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I have a Tacoma that just rolled up 90k this week. 6cyl, naturally aspirated. I expect to get well into the 200k range, if
I hope Toyota looses their pants because of what they've done. Horribly damaging financially. Get some brains and BALLS and offer naturally aspirated motors in their trucks and SUVs again. Likely would be well over 70% of truck and SUV models sold. Give us what we want, jackasses.

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Yeah, and I hope they trip over those pants when they inevitably fall to their ankles.

UntoldSpirit said:

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TRX said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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I think we ought to be promoting plug-in hybrids. They have most of the benefits of electric vehicles, but have a built-in answer to the questions "What if I don't have access to a charger?" and "What if my battery range isn't far enough?" that discourage people from buying EVs. You just fill up at a gas station like you always have.

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Why does it have to plug in at all though? Just charge while you drive with gas and use the battery when appropriate. I'm pretty sure this is existing tech.

I'm not buying a road vehicle that needs to be plugged in ever.

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Because a plug in hybrid means you don't use gas at all most of the time. You very rarely have to stop at a gas station. You're not spending money on gas and your not wasting your time to fill up, which is really nice - once you realize the benefit of that you don't really want to give it up. If you need to take a road trip, no problem. You will never worry about finding a charge station, waiting for a charge, or running out of charge. Your car also has electric car performance- instant torque and quick acceleration.

In exchange, you plug in your car when you get out of it in your garage. That's the ONLY time you need to do it. The plug is hanging right there as you get out, takes 3 seconds to do and it's on your way to the door to the house.

On top of all that, you aren't contributing to air pollution, the real kind that still plagues our cities. If you are worried about CO2 (I'm not) there is that advantage as well.

Plug in hybrids should have been the push all along.

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What about the 20% of Americans that live in apartments?

Or the huge number of Americans that don't park IN the garage?

Teslag said:

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The problem for the US is that it's a market that doesn't want cars. We want big trucks and big SUV's and slightly smaller crossovers. And the battery tech won't be there to power these classes any time soon with the range ease and quick refill of ice.

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You're always so negative on electric vehicles!!!!1

Ag with kids said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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TRX said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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I think we ought to be promoting plug-in hybrids. They have most of the benefits of electric vehicles, but have a built-in answer to the questions "What if I don't have access to a charger?" and "What if my battery range isn't far enough?" that discourage people from buying EVs. You just fill up at a gas station like you always have.

---

Why does it have to plug in at all though? Just charge while you drive with gas and use the battery when appropriate. I'm pretty sure this is existing tech.

I'm not buying a road vehicle that needs to be plugged in ever.

---

Because a plug in hybrid means you don't use gas at all most of the time. You very rarely have to stop at a gas station. You're not spending money on gas and your not wasting your time to fill up, which is really nice - once you realize the benefit of that you don't really want to give it up. If you need to take a road trip, no problem. You will never worry about finding a charge station, waiting for a charge, or running out of charge. Your car also has electric car performance- instant torque and quick acceleration.

In exchange, you plug in your car when you get out of it in your garage. That's the ONLY time you need to do it. The plug is hanging right there as you get out, takes 3 seconds to do and it's on your way to the door to the house.

On top of all that, you aren't contributing to air pollution, the real kind that still plagues our cities. If you are worried about CO2 (I'm not) there is that advantage as well.

Plug in hybrids should have been the push all along.

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What about the 20% of Americans that live in apartments?

Or the huge number of Americans that don't park IN the garage?

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I probably would not buy a plug-in hybrid if I lived in an apartment without a garage. If I had a carport or outside parking spot at my house, there is often a way to make a charger very easily accessible, just like a garage, as they have weatherproof setups. If it's not easy to set up a charger at home, I wouldn't buy a plug-in hybrid.

I agree with those that don't want to be inconvenienced with plugging in and charging. That would include doing it anywhere other than my convenient parking spot at home. But at home, it takes a few seconds to plug in and its relatively cheap. At home, plugging in far outweighs having to stop, pay for gas, and pump it in. You might go months without ever needing to stop at a gas station.

For most people, you burn gas on your road trips, and you don't burn a drop on your day to day driving. If you get a chance to drive to Alaska, it's no problem. Don't worry about charging your car or running out of charge for a second. Just get in the car and go.

Rocky Rider said:

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aTm2004 said:

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Meanwhile, at Toyota…Leeeeeroooooooyyyyyy Jenkinnnnnsnssssssss!

The 2027 Toyota Highlander ditches its gas and hybrid powertrains and goes fully electric. The new three-row Highlander EV can travel up to 320 miles on a charge, and all-wheel-drive models produce 338 horsepower. Sales are set to begin at the end of this year, and we expect the… pic.twitter.com/7Occ2c3iQH

— Car and Driver (@CARandDRIVER) February 11, 2026

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320 miles on a single charge. Woo-hoo. That's horrible! And 320 is likely optimal conditions; speed, temperature, terrain, passenger and cargo load, not towing, etc

Hybrid is an excellent design. The best of both worlds.

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I have a hybrid Highlander for a wifemobile. It gets close to five hundred miles of range on about $30 worth of gas. Hard to beat the combination of reliability and economy in a three row SUV. If they are doing away with the NA and hybrid Highlanders, then they are idiots.

Why would anyone want this EV that might do 320 in perfect conditions and will depreciate faster? Pass