Here's a map of Fort Worth - you maintain that most of this is section 8 housing?

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Teslag said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Yesterday said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Yesterday said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Honestly, it blows my mind how out of touch some older folks are with what it actually takes to live today. Saying "we need more $50-75k jobs" is kind of laughable-you'd barely cover rent, a used car, and bills at that. A new car easily runs $30-40k, buying a house in a decent neighborhood basically needs dual six-figure incomes, and even taking a simple vacation feels like a luxury. Life just isn't that cheap anymore, and a lot of people don't seem to realize it.

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This is completely false. It's clear many of you think you need to live with the Joneses in order to not be poor. 75k a year is by no means poor and certainly above the middle class threshold.

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In DFW, even if a household qualifies around $110-120k for a median-priced home, that's really just the bare minimum, it's not what actually gets you into a safe neighborhood with decent schools. Most listings in those areas, places like McKinney, Prosper, Little Elm, or parts of Allen are $400-500k+, which kinda pushes the income you actually need closer to $130-165k once you add in taxes, upkeep, competition and all that. That's before cars, insurance, groceries, even a vacation-so yeah, two $75k earners are often stretched pretty thin. Saying this is "keeping up with the Joneses" is kinda hyperbolic, I'm not talking Southlake or Highland Park, just normal decent areas with good schools and low crime. Unless you think "Keeping up with the Joneses" =/ wanting to move to an area with people like me, as many of the areas I mentioned are now majority Indian. Those areas are even more expensive and unattainable with this income.

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McKinney, prosper, Plano etc are typically not middle class. I'm talking Garland, Arlington, Grand Prairie, Mansfield, Fort Worth etc.

Middle class is not what may of y'all imagine. It's not the nice suburb and a newer Honda. It's Garland with a 2015 Chevy. But they can still afford to finance a home a car and go on vacation. I know because I literally see it. And they're very happy.

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Hahaha… Garland? Grand Prairie? Fort Worth?? ARLINGTON?? Schools are rough, crime isn't low, and honestly I wouldn't subject my kids to that. I don't expect luxury, but damn… those are some seriously low standards. Financially, sure, maybe you could be comfortable but everything else? Not even close. And I can't believe you're serious thinking those are "decent" areas… that honestly tells me all I need to know.

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There are plenty of areas on those cities that are livable and safe. You're kinda showing your ass here. There some areas in Fort Worth and Arlington that are among the most expensive places to live in DFW.

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Most of these cities are packed with low-rent Section 8 apartments that drag down school districts, and crime isn't exactly low. A decent pocket here and there doesn't change that reality.

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So you think the Walsh Ranch area of Fort Worth is a "decent pocket"? Sendera Ranch, McPherson Ranch, basically anywhere on I35 from 287 to Alliance, in Fort Worth is "packed with section 8 apartments"? Tanglewood? Clearview? TCU area? Overton Park? Chisholm Trail Ranch? Summer Creek?

Good lord man, you need to get out more.

Teslag said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Teslag said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Yesterday said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Yesterday said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Honestly, it blows my mind how out of touch some older folks are with what it actually takes to live today. Saying "we need more $50-75k jobs" is kind of laughable-you'd barely cover rent, a used car, and bills at that. A new car easily runs $30-40k, buying a house in a decent neighborhood basically needs dual six-figure incomes, and even taking a simple vacation feels like a luxury. Life just isn't that cheap anymore, and a lot of people don't seem to realize it.

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This is completely false. It's clear many of you think you need to live with the Joneses in order to not be poor. 75k a year is by no means poor and certainly above the middle class threshold.

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In DFW, even if a household qualifies around $110-120k for a median-priced home, that's really just the bare minimum, it's not what actually gets you into a safe neighborhood with decent schools. Most listings in those areas, places like McKinney, Prosper, Little Elm, or parts of Allen are $400-500k+, which kinda pushes the income you actually need closer to $130-165k once you add in taxes, upkeep, competition and all that. That's before cars, insurance, groceries, even a vacation-so yeah, two $75k earners are often stretched pretty thin. Saying this is "keeping up with the Joneses" is kinda hyperbolic, I'm not talking Southlake or Highland Park, just normal decent areas with good schools and low crime. Unless you think "Keeping up with the Joneses" =/ wanting to move to an area with people like me, as many of the areas I mentioned are now majority Indian. Those areas are even more expensive and unattainable with this income.

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McKinney, prosper, Plano etc are typically not middle class. I'm talking Garland, Arlington, Grand Prairie, Mansfield, Fort Worth etc.

Middle class is not what may of y'all imagine. It's not the nice suburb and a newer Honda. It's Garland with a 2015 Chevy. But they can still afford to finance a home a car and go on vacation. I know because I literally see it. And they're very happy.

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Hahaha… Garland? Grand Prairie? Fort Worth?? ARLINGTON?? Schools are rough, crime isn't low, and honestly I wouldn't subject my kids to that. I don't expect luxury, but damn… those are some seriously low standards. Financially, sure, maybe you could be comfortable but everything else? Not even close. And I can't believe you're serious thinking those are "decent" areas… that honestly tells me all I need to know.

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There are plenty of areas on those cities that are livable and safe. You're kinda showing your ass here. There some areas in Fort Worth and Arlington that are among the most expensive places to live in DFW.

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Most of these cities are packed with low-rent Section 8 apartments that drag down school districts, and crime isn't exactly low. A decent pocket here and there doesn't change that reality.

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So you think the Walsh Ranch area of Fort Worth is a "decent pocket"? Sendera Ranch, McPherson Ranch, basically anywhere on I35 from 287 to Alliance, in Fort Worth is "packed with section 8 apartments"? Tanglewood? Clearview? TCU area? Overton Park? Chisholm Trail Ranch? Summer Creek?

Good lord man, you need to get out more.

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How many of those are zoned to FWISD? Exactly.

Quite a few of them.


And here's a rando listing I grabbed in Aledo.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/305-Post-View-Dr_Aledo_TX_76008_M88055-24403

You think this is "unsafe"? Unlivable? Bad school?

Exactly. I wouldn't send my kids to FWISD, it's not a decent school district. And Aledo isn't FW. That commute is brutal though if you work on the Dallas side.

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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How many of those are zoned to FWISD? Exactly.

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4 of 8.

infinity ag said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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infinity ag said:

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How is it that almost every jobs report is great, but people on Linkedin are still looking for jobs and many are about to become homeless?
The only way it is possible is if the Government is fudging numbers...

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Or ... maybe the negative voices on Linkedin are just the loudest and don't represent a majority of the job seekers. People exaggerate. People are drama queens. People lie.

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Or... maybe all good jobs are being shipped abroad..... or maybe the government is LYING to us just like Biden did.

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Good jobs? Who defined what is "good"? Techie who was laid off because he/she was way over paid to start with?

My company just had layoffs. We grew way too much and are coming down to just being oversized. There are still a lot of people here doing basically nothing.

Scratch them off, then. If you have or want kids. Crowley is very, meh as well. I'll concede the far northern city limit suburbs that are zoned to Keller or Northwest. That's valid.

my parents live in a 55+ new community in Allen

down the street from the Indian Taj Majal temple and in a normal neighborhood it's $650,000

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Exactly. I wouldn't send my kids to FWISD, it's not a decent school district. And Aledo isn't FW. That commute is brutal though if you work on the Dallas side.

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See, now you're getting hoity again. FWISD is plenty fine for middle class families. On the Dallas side you have plenty of suburban areas similar to Aledo.

Teslag said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Exactly. I wouldn't send my kids to FWISD, it's not a decent school district. And Aledo isn't FW. That commute is brutal though if you work on the Dallas side.

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See, now you're getting hoity again. FWISD is plenty fine for middle class families. On the Dallas side you have plenty of suburban areas similar to Aledo.

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Wow… didn't realize wanting to give my kids a decent shot at an education and a good school social experience was "hoity." FWISD is overcrowded, under-resourced, and a lot of issues spill over from the rest of the district. Where are these Dallas suburbs that still feel like America and not India you speak of?

backintexas2013 said:

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Wait you don't think your degree matters.

Have you tried CPS or Austin State Hospital. You can give back while working.

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I have a masters in engineering. I'm retiring and when word got out I was retiring I've had several contact me about a contract position.

But I actually talk to actual people and have a network.

On a side note. Reading that made me wonder if there is a men's studies or just women's studies degree. And, how do get one of those? I'd be an expert because I've been studying women for 50 years.

WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Teslag said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Exactly. I wouldn't send my kids to FWISD, it's not a decent school district. And Aledo isn't FW. That commute is brutal though if you work on the Dallas side.

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See, now you're getting hoity again. FWISD is plenty fine for middle class families. On the Dallas side you have plenty of suburban areas similar to Aledo.

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Wow… didn't realize wanting to give my kids a decent shot at an education and a good school social experience was "hoity." FWISD is overcrowded, under-resourced, and a lot of issues spill over from the rest of the district. Where are these Dallas suburbs that still feel like America and not India you speak of?

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You really have no idea what it is to be "middle class". That's apparent.

Teslag said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Teslag said:

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WinTheWholeDamnThing said:

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Exactly. I wouldn't send my kids to FWISD, it's not a decent school district. And Aledo isn't FW. That commute is brutal though if you work on the Dallas side.

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See, now you're getting hoity again. FWISD is plenty fine for middle class families. On the Dallas side you have plenty of suburban areas similar to Aledo.

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Wow… didn't realize wanting to give my kids a decent shot at an education and a good school social experience was "hoity." FWISD is overcrowded, under-resourced, and a lot of issues spill over from the rest of the district. Where are these Dallas suburbs that still feel like America and not India you speak of?

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You really have no idea what it is to be "middle class". That's apparent.

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I have a very good idea of what the middle class used to be, and how much everything has deteriorated socially, economically, you name it. You have accepted what everything is now as the new normal, but I'm not
going to do that. We can do better.

Middle class was never sending your kids to public schools that provided private school level education. Even in the 80's they were full of stoners, bad crowds, disruption, etc. We just had a far less precious snowflake view of our children then.

Teslag said:

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Middle class was never sending your kids to public schools that provided private school level education. Even in the 80's they were full of stoners, bad crowds, disruption, etc. We just had a far less precious snowflake view of our children then.

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Sure, stoners and bad crowds existed in the 80s. That's not the point. Those things have always existed, even at the highest levels. What's changed is the social fabric. The sense of community just isn't the same. Neighborhoods used to feel tighter. Schools had more cohesion. There was more of a shared culture, more common ground, more stability. That's what the middle class used to have and doesn't anymore. It wasn't about private-school-level perfection, it was about a baseline environment that felt grounded and unified. Now districts are massive, overcrowded, socially fragmented, and way more chaotic. It's not about being "precious" about kids, it's about the fact that the overall environment feels less stable. A lot of American kids don't feel as at home in their own schools anymore because that shared community glue just isn't there like it was.

Yes, my nephew is slinging packages for amazon whilst waiting on another position to open up subcontracting for ATT on data centers.

I worked in corp America long enough to see the signs of guys who think they are worth more than what the market says they are. Sort of crazy cause many of them seem to be inclined to support capitalism. But they want socialized wage and job guarantees without ever putting skin in the game.

LMCane said:

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Are you following 330 million LinkedIn accounts?

We also have a 17 TRILLION dollar economy and the world's largest economy-

so no one person's general observations about the second largest country by land mass is going to be accurate.

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What's Canada got to do with anything?

People aren't posting on LI that they are about to lose their homes.

infinity ag said:

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backintexas2013 said:

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Because people think they "deserve" a better job. They have a way too high sense of themselves.

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What's wrong in that?

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Reality.

Kelsey Odair 09 said:

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backintexas2013 said:

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Kelsey Odair 09 said:

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backintexas2013 said:

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Because people think they "deserve" a better job. They have a way too high sense of themselves.

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I have a bachelor's AND a masters degree and I've had so much trouble finding a decent job. It's rough out there.

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.

Not sure why thumbs down. What's you degrees in? What field are you looking? Bet there are jobs around you that are open but you wouldn't take

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English Lit and Women's Studies, but I'm not sure why that matters. If anyone knows of anything in the Austin area, I may be interested.

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Best troll i've seen in a while. Well done!

Science Denier said:

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infinity ag said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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infinity ag said:

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How is it that almost every jobs report is great, but people on Linkedin are still looking for jobs and many are about to become homeless?
The only way it is possible is if the Government is fudging numbers...

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Or ... maybe the negative voices on Linkedin are just the loudest and don't represent a majority of the job seekers. People exaggerate. People are drama queens. People lie.

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Or... maybe all good jobs are being shipped abroad..... or maybe the government is LYING to us just like Biden did.

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Good jobs? Who defined what is "good"? Techie who was laid off because he/she was way over paid to start with?

My company just had layoffs. We grew way too much and are coming down to just being oversized. There are still a lot of people here doing basically nothing.

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Good = high paid. As simple as that.

Who are you to say someone's job was overpaid? I can say the same about your job. Take a paycut.

Muy said:

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People aren't posting on LI that they are about to lose their homes.

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I've seen tons of those. Wake up.

infinity ag said:

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Science Denier said:

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infinity ag said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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infinity ag said:

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How is it that almost every jobs report is great, but people on Linkedin are still looking for jobs and many are about to become homeless?
The only way it is possible is if the Government is fudging numbers...

---

Or ... maybe the negative voices on Linkedin are just the loudest and don't represent a majority of the job seekers. People exaggerate. People are drama queens. People lie.

---

Or... maybe all good jobs are being shipped abroad..... or maybe the government is LYING to us just like Biden did.

---

Good jobs? Who defined what is "good"? Techie who was laid off because he/she was way over paid to start with?

My company just had layoffs. We grew way too much and are coming down to just being oversized. There are still a lot of people here doing basically nothing.

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Good = high paid. As simple as that.

Who are you to say someone's job was overpaid? I can say the same about your job. Take a paycut.

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Overpaid = someone can do your job cheaper than you.

I am way over paid. And, I am volunteering a pay cut this year. I'm going to take my pay down to zero. Can't take a bigger cut than that!!

infinity ag said:

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Science Denier said:

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infinity ag said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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infinity ag said:

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How is it that almost every jobs report is great, but people on Linkedin are still looking for jobs and many are about to become homeless?
The only way it is possible is if the Government is fudging numbers...

---

Or ... maybe the negative voices on Linkedin are just the loudest and don't represent a majority of the job seekers. People exaggerate. People are drama queens. People lie.

---

Or... maybe all good jobs are being shipped abroad..... or maybe the government is LYING to us just like Biden did.

---

Good jobs? Who defined what is "good"? Techie who was laid off because he/she was way over paid to start with?

My company just had layoffs. We grew way too much and are coming down to just being oversized. There are still a lot of people here doing basically nothing.

---

Good = high paid. As simple as that.

Who are you to say someone's job was overpaid? I can say the same about your job. Take a paycut.

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If you get laid off and cannot find similar work at similar pay, you were overpaid.

I purposely overpay my employees in order to keep them on my reservation. But they are screwed if they think they can walk out and demand the same.

In corporate america, most become overpaid by spending too much time suckling on the company teats and other dangling appendages. When the when changes direction, they find themselves on the outs but unwilling to swallow their pride and start again, maybe doing things a bit differently.

infinity ag said:

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Who are you to say someone's job was overpaid? I can say the same about your job. Take a paycut.

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Said differently, who are you to say someone's job as a landscaper is not a good one (for them)?

Sims said:

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infinity ag said:

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Who are you to say someone's job was overpaid? I can say the same about your job. Take a paycut.

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Said differently, who are you to say someone's job as a landscaper is not a good one (for them)?

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It may be good for them. But if the countries citizens do landscaper jobs making low hourly wages while foreigners make big big money, then there is a problem and usually some kind of collusion/fixing going on.

If you can't see this, nothing more to say.

flown-the-coop said:

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infinity ag said:

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Science Denier said:

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infinity ag said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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infinity ag said:

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How is it that almost every jobs report is great, but people on Linkedin are still looking for jobs and many are about to become homeless?
The only way it is possible is if the Government is fudging numbers...

---

Or ... maybe the negative voices on Linkedin are just the loudest and don't represent a majority of the job seekers. People exaggerate. People are drama queens. People lie.

---

Or... maybe all good jobs are being shipped abroad..... or maybe the government is LYING to us just like Biden did.

---

Good jobs? Who defined what is "good"? Techie who was laid off because he/she was way over paid to start with?

My company just had layoffs. We grew way too much and are coming down to just being oversized. There are still a lot of people here doing basically nothing.

---

Good = high paid. As simple as that.

Who are you to say someone's job was overpaid? I can say the same about your job. Take a paycut.

---

If you get laid off and cannot find similar work at similar pay, you were overpaid.

I purposely overpay my employees in order to keep them on my reservation. But they are screwed if they think they can walk out and demand the same.

In corporate america, most become overpaid by spending too much time suckling on the company teats and other dangling appendages. When the when changes direction, they find themselves on the outs but unwilling to swallow their pride and start again, maybe doing things a bit differently.

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Wrong.

Your hypothesis assumes the market conditions are the same in both situations. Job markets go up and down. You can be hired in good times, make a lot of money, then get laid off during down times and then find it hard to get hired. You have more skills, more experience but cannot get hired. Until the market changes and you get hired again.

I can't believe I am explaining such a simple concept. How old are you?

infinity ag said:

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Sims said:

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infinity ag said:

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Who are you to say someone's job was overpaid? I can say the same about your job. Take a paycut.

---

Said differently, who are you to say someone's job as a landscaper is not a good one (for them)?

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It may be good for them. But if the countries citizens do landscaper jobs making low hourly wages while foreigners make big big money, then there is a problem and usually some kind of collusion/fixing going on.

If you can't see this, nothing more to say.

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But you say a lot, and you dinegrate those people in the process. Maybe say something like, that's not a job that I would want.

Instead you ascribe your own hedonistic materialism to their situation and say they've failed.

*If you need me to cite more sources, I'll go no further than your post saying a good job is:

Quote:

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Good = high paid. As simple as that.

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If someone paid you $10M to set yourself on fire in the middle of the street without protective clothing, that doesn't seem like a good job to me. But heck, $$$ friends!

infinity ag said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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If you get laid off and cannot find similar work at similar pay, you were overpaid.

I purposely overpay my employees in order to keep them on my reservation. But they are screwed if they think they can walk out and demand the same.

In corporate america, most become overpaid by spending too much time suckling on the company teats and other dangling appendages. When the when changes direction, they find themselves on the outs but unwilling to swallow their pride and start again, maybe doing things a bit differently.

---

Wrong.

Your hypothesis assumes the market conditions are the same in both situations. Job markets go up and down. You can be hired in good times, make a lot of money, then get laid off during down times and then find it hard to get hired. You have more skills, more experience but cannot get hired. Until the market changes and you get hired again.

I can't believe I am explaining such a simple concept. How old are you?

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I think I understand your problem. You do not understand the concept of market rate for work performed.

Its not a hypothesis, its how the free market for employment works, particularly in the US.

You market value changes as the market demand for your skills and competencies change. If I paint wagons and no one wants their wagon painter, I can no longer make a living wage painting wagons.

Have you ever seen the boom and bust cycles in the oil & gas sector? Coders during Y2K? Data center builders now?

So again if you get laid off and cannot find similar work at similar pay, you were overpaid. And probably why you were laid off.

I cannot believe anyone would need this explained to them.

Lol sure you do.

Hmm if I didn't have rent, a commute, insurance or a social life and only studied and was a primary caregiver, I'm sure I could save money as well unfortunately that's not reality. That's very commendable of her btw, we need more of that.

That's still pretending this is a perfectly clean supply-and-demand chart.

It's not.

A lot of layoffs and wage pressure aren't "the market correcting overpayment." It's companies squeezing margins because Wall Street wants 3% more this quarter. Perfectly profitable teams get cut. Senior people get axed because two of them equal five juniors on a spreadsheet. That's cost engineering, not some revelation that they weren't worth their pay.

And it's not pure market dynamics when firms can expand labor supply globally, use visa programs that increase employer leverage, offshore work, automate selectively, or freeze hiring in tandem with competitors. That shifts bargaining power. It suppresses wages. It doesn't prove prior pay was irrational.

There's also a lot of what I'd call bad-faith cost cutting cutting comp not because the worker isn't productive, but because leadership knows employees have fewer options in a downturn and can be pressured to accept less. That's leverage, not "true market value."

Markets matter. But pretending every pay cut or layoff is just a clean signal that someone was "overpaid" ignores power, policy, capital cycles, and margin obsession. It's way more complicated than that.

AxelFoley85 said:

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Hmm if I didn't have rent, a commute, insurance or a social life and only studied and was a primary caregiver, I'm sure I could save money as well unfortunately that's not reality. That's very commendable of her btw, we need more of that.

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She lives on her own, pays all her own bills, has a social life, and managed to put in 45 hours bathing, feeding, tending to her mother and taking her to her many, many doctor's appointments.

Don't sell the kid short, she put in the work and took care of herself and her school. That's even more commendable. But I unlatched her this month and I am confident she will do just fine as she did before she needed to care for her mom.

I concur things are more expensive overall, particularly things such as housing, transportation and insurance. But many many people have those $50k-$75k jobs. Keep in mind the folks posting on TexAgs particularly on f16 are college educated. So expectations should factor that in.

infinity ag said:

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Muy said:

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People aren't posting on LI that they are about to lose their homes.

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I've seen tons of those. Wake up.

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You must have 1st party connections with spares.