Old McDonald said:

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BlackGold said:

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Rand might be one of the most philosophically consistent members of the senate. Everyone else has a highest bidder mindset. I respect him for that.

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exactly. if you liked him before but don't after this, it's not because he changed. it's because you did, and for the worse.

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You spent several years contending that Biden was lucid.

Forgive us if we don't take your opinions on people serious...

BigRobSA said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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The Kraken said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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The Kraken said:

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Rand Paul calling out Noem and Bovino for their incredibly inaccurate initial descriptions of the Pretti incident? Okay.

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They turned out to be 100% accurate. A domestic terrorist armed to the teeth attacking law enforcement.

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Good grief, you are such a goaltender with apparently zero willingness for independent thought.

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My independent assessment is that this dude was a radical anti ice anti law enforcement extremist who engaged to i struct law enforcement with a round chambered and a spare clip

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"Clip"!?

This ain't an M1. It's magazine, Mister Falcon.

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And I had been so careful with my words! Sorry Rob. Spare magazine. Full of bullets.

The OP video calling Rand Paul a "clown" consists of 2 words from Rand- "without question".

Here is the full context:


Key Rand points made:
1) The shooting of Pretti was unjustified.
2) He claims Pretti wasn't "aggressively assaulting" agents moments before being shot.
3) He called out incorrect conclusions and accusations, refering to Pretti being labeled "and assassin". And that this violates trust.
4) He called out incorrect conclusions about not being allowed to carry a gun to a protest, that conflict with 2A.
5) He mentioned a more independent investigation would be more ideal.
6) He said if new body cam evidence refutes any of these points, he will concede.
7) He said it's his job to always do whats right regardless of political party, and that people are going to watch this and claim "oh he's cooperating with the democrats"...continuing with saying he is not some bomb thrower from the left trying to get rid of ICE.
8) He ended by saying there were off ramps on BOTH sides, and opportunities for BOTH sides to de-escalate.

Rand is right. Per #7, he even predicted this incorrect knee jerk response seen all over this thread. OP should update with full video.

Rand Paul is very clear eyed here. It is level, rational, and R's should take note.

Ag98and03 said:

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Rand Paul is very clear eyed here. It is level, rational, and R's should take note.

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Rational and level headed. I'm sure that will play out well here..

I don't always agree with Senator Paul, but I respect him for his consistentency.

They all crawl out of the woodwork to affirm Rand. Just confirms to the rest of us that he's way off the mark.

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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It hurts seeing what Rand Paul and Thomas Massie have been doing the last year. I really liked them.

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They can both go suck an egg.

The more I think about the incident, Pretti was committing treason by fighting law enforcement who are actively remove foreign invaders to our country. Were mistakes made? Possibly, but ICE had to make split second decisions when confronting him and resisting law enforcement while armed proved to be his downfall.

I hate many of the statements made by the administration claiming you don't have the right to be armed at a protest, but Trump is terrible at messaging at times. Pretti was armed and fighting law enforcement at what has become a riot. His actions got him killed.

flown-the-coop said:

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BigRobSA said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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The Kraken said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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The Kraken said:

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Rand Paul calling out Noem and Bovino for their incredibly inaccurate initial descriptions of the Pretti incident? Okay.

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They turned out to be 100% accurate. A domestic terrorist armed to the teeth attacking law enforcement.

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Good grief, you are such a goaltender with apparently zero willingness for independent thought.

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My independent assessment is that this dude was a radical anti ice anti law enforcement extremist who engaged to i struct law enforcement with a round chambered and a spare clip

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"Clip"!?

This ain't an M1. It's magazine, Mister Falcon.

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And I had been so careful with my words! Sorry Rob. Spare magazine. Full of bullets.

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You know near zero about today's firearms that have cartridges in magazines not bullets in clips.

johnnyblaze36 said:

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Quote:

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Scott Pelley: The families of Renee Good and Alex Pretti are seeking the truth, and I wonder what you would say to them in this moment.

Sen. Rand Paul: It's hard to know-- you know, what to say. And I'm not sure exactly how to respond to the emotions of it. I think that no one who is protesting, you know, deserves to be shot. You know, should the police have deescalated? Absolutely. Could the people have deescalated? Yes. None of it justifies what happened, but there were off-ramps all along here. There were off-ramps. And neither s-- side chose to-- choose those off-ramps.

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Nah. It's really not that hard. Rand. And we understand that you don't know how to respond emotionally other than like a complete tard feeding right into the hands of 60 Minutes.

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Everything Rand said in that quote is true. There were several off ramps that would've led to a better outcome.

Only Republicans produce this type of bull***** The dems stick together. I'm exhausted with him and Massie.

Hubert J. Farnsworth said:

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It hurts seeing what Rand Paul and Thomas Massie have been doing the last year. I really liked them.

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What the hell is in the water in Kentucky?

Anyone who assigns the label 'protest' to what the rioters are doing in blue cities and states is incapable of critical thinking. Rand Paul is one of many in our federal government who has been in Washington too long to retain any measure of common sense. Governing is really hard, but it is almost impossible if your stupid.

As usual Rand Paul is a majority of one. Always the skunk at the picnic. The poodle haircut doesn't help, either. You can count on him to be contrary at the critical times. McCain lite without the DD214.

I admire his libertarian consistency.

Where I think he could improve is realizing that you can't win the game all at once. Sometimes a yes vote will move toward liberty, but not as much as it could. However, many times a no vote on the same issue definitely moves us away from liberty. Why do that?

Ellis Wyatt said:

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They all crawl out of the woodwork to affirm Rand. Just confirms to the rest of us that he's way off the mark.

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the fact he is on misinformation spreading 60 minutes says it all. Haven't watched that POS show since early 80's when in high school. It's because of Dan Rather I woke up to the lies being spewed by MSM.

Thunderstormr said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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BigRobSA said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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The Kraken said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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The Kraken said:

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Rand Paul calling out Noem and Bovino for their incredibly inaccurate initial descriptions of the Pretti incident? Okay.

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They turned out to be 100% accurate. A domestic terrorist armed to the teeth attacking law enforcement.

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Good grief, you are such a goaltender with apparently zero willingness for independent thought.

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My independent assessment is that this dude was a radical anti ice anti law enforcement extremist who engaged to i struct law enforcement with a round chambered and a spare clip

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"Clip"!?

This ain't an M1. It's magazine, Mister Falcon.

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And I had been so careful with my words! Sorry Rob. Spare magazine. Full of bullets.

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You know near zero about today's firearms that have cartridges in magazines not bullets in clips.

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I bet you I can plink more targets than you can. The clips was a genuine terminology error which I try to avoid cause Rob is always lurking to correct, the bullets vs ammo / cartridges was a joke back to Rob.

I forget how poorly sarcasm works on f16.

Pondering65 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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They all crawl out of the woodwork to affirm Rand. Just confirms to the rest of us that he's way off the mark.

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the fact he is on misinformation spreading 60 minutes says it all. Haven't watched that POS show since early 80's when in high school. It's because of Dan Rather I woke up to the lies being spewed by MSM.

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It's telling when the known die hard Kamala cons come out to express the respect and admiration for Randy.

Dude could be helpful, instead he's an antagonist.

He could actually get some of his own agenda and priorities done if he would quit ****ing up everyone else's.

There are a lot if Republicans myself included that align a lot more closely with Rand than the Donald. We aren't bad Republicans, we are the Republicans.

And for those saying he should leave the party, to go where? Its a two party system. We still vote with the Trump base on probably 90% of the issues. Why does everyone get their panties in a wad when a Republican with a backbone says something?

This. He's spent so long as the contrarian that I don't think he knows how to operate otherwise. Ultimately he accomplishes nothing and in a case like this, he's a detriment. For a small govt guy like Paul, border security and enforcing immigration law should be in that small circle of things the govt should be doing. But he can't help himself. And the real problem in these scenarios is local govt actively subverting ICE. The work ICE is doing is completely justified and constitutional, but in order to do it as safely as possible for everyone, local support and partnership is essential.

Spaceball 1 said:

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There are a lot if Republicans myself included that align a lot more closely with Rand than the Donald. We aren't bad Republicans, we are the Republicans.

And for those saying he should leave the party, to go where? Its a two party system. We still vote with the Trump base on probably 90% of the issues. Why does everyone get their panties in a wad when a Republican with a backbone says something?

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Because though you may identify closer to him, many Rs do not. And he tries his best to undermine Trump blaming his principles and not his ego as the reason.

flown-the-coop said:

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Spaceball 1 said:

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There are a lot if Republicans myself included that align a lot more closely with Rand than the Donald. We aren't bad Republicans, we are the Republicans.

And for those saying he should leave the party, to go where? Its a two party system. We still vote with the Trump base on probably 90% of the issues. Why does everyone get their panties in a wad when a Republican with a backbone says something?

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Because though you may identify closer to him, many Rs do not. And he tries his best to undermine Trump blaming his principles and not his ego as the reason.

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I see the good and bad in Rand... he is what he is. But that is super rich to blame someone for being egotistical when they don't support Trump, who is the all-time king of excessive egos.

Renaming the Kennedy center as the Trump-Kennedy center.
Introducing a new class of Navy ships as the Trump class
New accounts for kids called Trump accounts
The list goes on and on....

I made my peace with voting for him three times because he was far better than the alternative every time, and I don't regret my vote for a second. But let's not put him on such a pedestal that any criticism results in "ego" charges against other people, lol.

Rand Paul is the only honest man in Shawshank.

That's why he is hated here.

MemphisAg1 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Spaceball 1 said:

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There are a lot if Republicans myself included that align a lot more closely with Rand than the Donald. We aren't bad Republicans, we are the Republicans.

And for those saying he should leave the party, to go where? Its a two party system. We still vote with the Trump base on probably 90% of the issues. Why does everyone get their panties in a wad when a Republican with a backbone says something?

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Because though you may identify closer to him, many Rs do not. And he tries his best to undermine Trump blaming his principles and not his ego as the reason.

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I see the good and bad in Rand... he is what he is. But that is super rich to blame someone for being egotistical when they don't support Trump, who is the all-time king of excessive egos.

Renaming the Kennedy center as the Trump-Kennedy center.
Introducing a new class of Navy ships as the Trump class
New accounts for kids called Trump accounts
The list goes on and on....

I made my peace with voting for him three times because he was far better than the alternative every time, and I don't regret my vote for a second. But let's not put him on such a pedestal that any criticism results in "ego" charges against other people, lol.

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Trump being egotistical is different than Paul. Why? Trump is POTUS.

Almost anyone will tell you that to be the top dog of a large enterprise, country, professional sports team, etc will possess narcissistic tendencies. The bigger, more powerful that role the more narcissistic they are.

Randy's problem is he is one of 100 but he fancies himself more important than the 1% he is.

Not quite the burn you were trying to score. I encourage you to keep trying.

shiftyandquick said:

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Rand Paul is the only honest man in Shawshank.

That's why he is hated here.

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He is not hated here. I catch PLENTY of flack from hating on Randy. What is new is seeing more and more of you libs showing up to defend him.

flown-the-coop said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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Rand Paul is the only honest man in Shawshank.

That's why he is hated here.

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He is not hated here. I catch PLENTY of flack from hating on Randy. What is new is seeing more and more of you libs showing up to defend him.

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you mean "Reagan Republicans who have turned against MAGA."

shiftyandquick said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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Rand Paul is the only honest man in Shawshank.

That's why he is hated here.

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He is not hated here. I catch PLENTY of flack from hating on Randy. What is new is seeing more and more of you libs showing up to defend him.

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you mean "Reagan Republicans who have turned against MAGA."

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Yea right. You know people can see your posting history, right?

Trump is more of a Reagan republican than Reagan was. Let that sink in.

Quote:

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There are a lot if Republicans myself included that align a lot more closely with Rand than the Donald. We aren't bad Republicans, we are the Republicans.

And for those saying he should leave the party, to go where? Its a two party system. We still vote with the Trump base on probably 90% of the issues. Why does everyone get their panties in a wad when a Republican with a backbone says something?

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I think because a lot of people have had their brain infused with agitprop and don't view the current White House platform as just another administration but instead some sort of holy war. This mindset permeates so much of the commentary here.

And I get you on MAGA folks not Conservative. MAGA has shed so many of the baseline Republican, conservative platform points. It has embraced policy stances on the following points that are diametrically opposed to conservative beliefs in the following areas:

1) Trade Policy
2) Foreign Interventionist justification
3) Belief in liberty for all citizens in the world
4) Global partnerships to advance U.S. goals
5) Size of government
6) Fiscal conservatism
7) Skepticism of Federal Law Enforcement

etc etc

Rand Paul is still a libertarian conservative and therefore should have issues with all of the above.

Seems like their could be a three party system at this point. Just rebrand the MAGA movement into the American Party or something like that and see where it all goes.

flown-the-coop said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Spaceball 1 said:

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There are a lot if Republicans myself included that align a lot more closely with Rand than the Donald. We aren't bad Republicans, we are the Republicans.

And for those saying he should leave the party, to go where? Its a two party system. We still vote with the Trump base on probably 90% of the issues. Why does everyone get their panties in a wad when a Republican with a backbone says something?

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Because though you may identify closer to him, many Rs do not. And he tries his best to undermine Trump blaming his principles and not his ego as the reason.

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I see the good and bad in Rand... he is what he is. But that is super rich to blame someone for being egotistical when they don't support Trump, who is the all-time king of excessive egos.

Renaming the Kennedy center as the Trump-Kennedy center.
Introducing a new class of Navy ships as the Trump class
New accounts for kids called Trump accounts
The list goes on and on....

I made my peace with voting for him three times because he was far better than the alternative every time, and I don't regret my vote for a second. But let's not put him on such a pedestal that any criticism results in "ego" charges against other people, lol.

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Trump being egotistical is different than Paul. Why? Trump is POTUS.

Almost anyone will tell you that to be the top dog of a large enterprise, country, professional sports team, etc will possess narcissistic tendencies. The bigger, more powerful that role the more narcissistic they are.

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That is next level goaltending. Impressive.

Rand Paul, although probably bought and paid for as well, is the closest thing we have to a normal human being in all of Washington. He makes the right pigs squeal, everytime. .

Goaltending. Nice. Below is from George Friedman at Geopolitical Futures. I shared some of this previously, but you can dismiss his analysis as goaltending as well if it helps cope with your TDS.

Quote:

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We must now consider whether Trump is a narcissist and therefore a bad president. A narcissist is someone who has excessive regard for one's self and one's capabilities, and who is unable to accept that others might have equal or even greater capabilities and wisdom than they.

From my point of view, anyone who sees him or herself as capable of being president of the United States has a profound sense of self-worth and capability by definition great enough to preside over the country and, to some extent, to affect the entire world. A modest sense of self-worth would not be enough to give anyone the confidence or ability to imagine being president. It would seem to me that anyone who would seriously run for president would have a profoundly greater confidence and even self-love than most of us. There is, of course, a point where that narcissism would become pathological, but that point would lead to failure in life, long before he became president. His life would have been one of constant failure to achieve things he thought he could achieve.

Anyone who thinks he can be president has to have a sense of self-worth far beyond the norm, and in a sense to be a narcissist. But presidents also have the ability to craft their persona to align with the spirit and proprieties of the time. They understand their time and build an image of themselves that makes them not just acceptable to the national culture of the time, but highly desirable as a leader. All of them thought extremely well of themselves, but most adopted a facade appropriate to the time. Who they were underneath the facade was hidden, and perhaps the greatest power of a president is the ability to prevent access to his soul. FDR, born to vast wealth and likely never having spoken to a poor man apart from his servants, created a persona that claimed to, and perhaps did, understand the plight of the unemployed. JFK did the same. I could go on, but both successfully crafted themselves to their time. Nixon was unable to hide who he was and failed, and so on. All presidents hold themselves in high regard, and then present themselves as they must to be elected.

Donald Trump may be what he presents to the world, or he may be very different. If the persona he presents is his real personality, then he has a rare virtue for a president: honesty. Whether he crafted his persona or not, he won election as president twice, and therefore we know that, whether natural or artificial, his persona won him a democratic election.

The question now is not whether he is a narcissist. He is president, and therefore that is a given. The question is whether that narcissism is pathological, in other words, making him dysfunctional. - George Friedman, GPF

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FWTXAg said:

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Rand Paul, although probably bought and paid for as well, is the closest thing we have to a normal human being in all of Washington. He makes the right pigs squeal, everytime. .

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The eye doctor from Lake Jackson probably is violating those pigs to make them behave that way.

Ag98and03 said:

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Rand Paul is very clear eyed here. It is level, rational, and R's should take note.

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I agree. I still like Rand a lot and he would get my vote any day of the week. He's totally right here. He seems like he's the only one with a functional brain and a fully developed adult mindset. Thats why some R people have such trouble with him.

I don't understand how Rand Paul keeps getting elected.