How does Tennessee do it. No income tax and I think really low property taxes.

reineraggie09 said:

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How does Tennessee do it. No income tax and I think really low property taxes.

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I lived in TN 13 years and don't recall exceptionally low property taxes. Mine were about 1.4% of appraised value. I'm running about 1.8% in Texas. The local sales tax was higher at 9.25%, and they taxed dividends over a certain amount while TX did not. Pretty comparable all-in to TX. Both are great states to minimize your overall tax burden compared to others. I live in MI for awhile and they took 4% off the top. GA took 6%. AR took some too.

MemphisAg1 said:

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I'd favor higher sales tax over a property tax for the reason you mentioned, but it's important to also stay grounded in the facts. Once you reach 65 in Texas, you can defer paying your property taxes until death. They take it out of your estate after you die. So the narrative that they will evict old people from their home is false, unless you refuse to take the deferral option and simply don't pay.

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Seriously? I am in that category. And if I defer, I leave potentially years of past taxes to my heirs. And believe it or not, it often times adds up to more than the real asset is worth. There goes any inheritance. I say abolish property tax and go with a higher sales tax. At least then I have a choice of paying more or less taxes.

Honest answers only.

How many of you voted for that stupid constitutional amendment outlawing an income tax? Which essentially means we'll have high property taxes.

BkYdPitmaster said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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I'd favor higher sales tax over a property tax for the reason you mentioned, but it's important to also stay grounded in the facts. Once you reach 65 in Texas, you can defer paying your property taxes until death. They take it out of your estate after you die. So the narrative that they will evict old people from their home is false, unless you refuse to take the deferral option and simply don't pay.

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Seriously? I am in that category. And if I defer, I leave potentially years of past taxes to my heirs. And believe it or not, it often times adds up to more than the real asset is worth. There goes any inheritance. I say abolish property tax and go with a higher sales tax. At least then I have a choice of paying more or less taxes.

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I agree. I prefer a higher sales tax over a property tax.

And yes, the consequence of deferring your homestead property taxes after age 65 means there's probably nothing left for your descendants, but it is an option if you're in that spot with minimal income/wealth.

At minimum we need to absolutely gut the number of administrators in the public school system and freeze taxes for a few years

mosdefn14 said:

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Honest answers only.

How many of you voted for that stupid constitutional amendment outlawing an income tax? Which essentially means we'll have high property taxes.

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Generally, adding another tax means more tax paid. There may be some redistribution of taxes, but you are probably going to pay more either way.

We saw that in the push for the VAT in so many countries. It was seen as a way to reduce or eliminate the income tax in those countries, but it didn't eliminate anything. It let the politicians play the taxes against each other and over time raised both. If you want to know why Europe often has such high taxes, all you have to do is to look at what adding a VAT did to their tax system. Before the VAT, they paid about the same percentage of their income as we do. With the VAt AND the Income Tax, they now pay far more.

So what do you think would happen if we added a state income tax. Do you really think that you would be paying less in taxes?

If I was a billionaire.... I would not be happy if my Ferrari 288 GTO or Jackson Pollock painting or vintage Patek Phillipe timepiece were slapped w/ a 5% "tax" whereas before there was nothing.

Well, the devil is in the details. How would the tax RATE be determined based on your hypothetical?

mosdefn14 said:

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Honest answers only.

How many of you voted for that stupid constitutional amendment outlawing an income tax? Which essentially means we'll have high property taxes.

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It passed with >70% of the vote so likely most of us on here. So, I guess you got almost all of us on this board?

There appears to be a high percentage of Taxicologists on this thread.

MemphisAg1 said:

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reineraggie09 said:

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How does Tennessee do it. No income tax and I think really low property taxes.

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I lived in TN 13 years and don't recall exceptionally low property taxes. Mine were about 1.4% of appraised value. I'm running about 1.8% in Texas. The local sales tax was higher at 9.25%, and they taxed dividends over a certain amount while TX did not. Pretty comparable all-in to TX. Both are great states to minimize your overall tax burden compared to others. I live in MI for awhile and they took 4% off the top. GA took 6%. AR took some too.

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They are pretty close. Based on a metric of State and Local Tax Burden per Capita and as a Percentage of Income, Tennessee is the 3rd lowest in the country and Texas is the 6th.

Tennessee is 7.6% (3rd)
Texas is 8.6% (6th)

Perspective:
California is 13.5% (46th)
New York is 15.9% (50th)
Michigan is 8.6% (5th) - effectively tied with Texas

New York took the crown for worst in the country a few years ago when the socialists fully took control and passed significantly higher taxes under a campaign that literally had the "Eat the Rich" campaign slogan.

Edit: we identified TN as a Plan B based on taxes and we love the area. For us, it would a huge drop in tax burden if we moved there simply because we are starting with such a high TCO for our house here in Texas. Yes, we could simply move somewhere else in Texas and achieve the same effect, but we kind of want to live somewhere different for a bit instead of just moving back near a city...if we were to ever leave here.

The most successful state government will be the one that makes EVERYONE pay their share. I don't care of it is income tax, property tax, consumer tax...EVERYONE pays.

Remove Homestead Exemption! Taxes help pay for things necessary for everyday life...fire protection, police, libraries, schools, etc. If you want to live in this state, you must pay taxes...EVERYONE! No exemptions. I don't care if you make $2MM per year or $20k per year, pay your share!

Also, if you do not pay your fair share, YOU DON'T GET TO VOTE on whether property taxes should increase!

Quote:

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No one has advocated for FF, police, and EMT crews being unpaid or low paid servants.

You are assuming that we must pay high property taxes in perpetuity in order to have those services, which is not true nor the argument people are making. Thus the strawman.

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It's not a strawman argument to point out an intellectually lazy argument like "we can replace property tax with a consumption tax, period, end of sentence." You cannot replace a property tax, levied and collected locally on something that exists everywhere, with a consumption tax levied locally.

Consumption doesn't happen everywhere, or very evenly at all. There are school districts where the only sales tax collected may be one convenience store, if that. There are innumerable school districts which don't have a big box store. So, saying that you can replace the property tax with a consumption tax is a half-assed, lazy argument.

You'd have to impose a state-wide tax, and have Austin redistribute it, which would effectively end local control of schools, hospitals, municipalities, etc, because they would no longer have any control over their revenue.

You'd also end up with the state assuming the all the local debt backed by property tax. All those gold plated stadiums being built in rich suburban districts would now have to be paid off by a consumption tax levied throughout the state.

caleblyn said:

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The most successful state government will be the one that makes EVERYONE pay their share. I don't care of it is income tax, property tax, consumer tax...EVERYONE pays.

Remove Homestead Exemption! Taxes help pay for things necessary for everyday life...fire protection, police, libraries, schools, etc. If you want to live in this state, you must pay taxes...EVERYONE! No exemptions. I don't care if you make $2MM per year or $20k per year, pay your share!

Also, if you do not pay your fair share, YOU DON'T GET TO VOTE on whether property taxes should increase!

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Good luck with that while property taxes remain the only funding mechanism that makes this state run. Could be discussed if a different mix of taxes were to happen which is a pipe dream at this point.

Lots of the same old driivel upon this topic. Why is everyone so lazy? Get to work on a Howard Jarvis effort. Quit the whining.

YouBet said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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reineraggie09 said:

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How does Tennessee do it. No income tax and I think really low property taxes.

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I lived in TN 13 years and don't recall exceptionally low property taxes. Mine were about 1.4% of appraised value. I'm running about 1.8% in Texas. The local sales tax was higher at 9.25%, and they taxed dividends over a certain amount while TX did not. Pretty comparable all-in to TX. Both are great states to minimize your overall tax burden compared to others. I live in MI for awhile and they took 4% off the top. GA took 6%. AR took some too.

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They are pretty close. Based on a metric of State and Local Tax Burden per Capita and as a Percentage of Income, Tennessee is the 3rd lowest in the country and Texas is the 6th.

Tennessee is 7.6% (3rd)
Texas is 8.6% (6th)

Perspective:
California is 13.5% (46th)
New York is 15.9% (50th)
Michigan is 8.6% (5th) - effectively tied with Texas

New York took the crown for worst in the country a few years ago when the socialists fully took control and passed significantly higher taxes under a campaign that literally had the "Eat the Rich" campaign slogan.

Edit: we identified TN as a Plan B based on taxes and we love the area. For us, it would a huge drop in tax burden if we moved there simply because we are starting with such a high TCO for our house here in Texas. Yes, we could simply move somewhere else in Texas and achieve the same effect, but we kind of want to live somewhere different for a bit instead of just moving back near a city...if we were to ever leave here.

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One site I looked at says that New Mexico is the 12th highest at $7,752 per capita. If I remember correctly, a relative of mine was bragging about how little he pays in New Mexico taxes.

I think I found the site you are getting this from: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/tax-burden-by-state

BoerneGator said:

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Quote:

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Additionally renters do not get the benefit of homestead exemption.

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Actually, the owners of rental property get no homestead exemption on that same property either. That's reserved for actual homesteads.

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The point is that the renters (by the nature of property tax being baked into the rent) do not get the benefit of the homestead exemption. While they do not directly pay property tax they DO in fact pay it at a higher rate than theose who do own homes. Additionally homeowners and landlords, get to write off the or deduct property taxes from federal income tax.

Yes I realize I'm broad brush painting and there's a lot that goes into income tax filing...

mosdefn14 said:

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Honest answers only.

How many of you voted for that stupid constitutional amendment outlawing an income tax? Which essentially means we'll have high property taxes.

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I guess you think I'm stupid then. Jokes on you.

As was mentioned earlier, no one ever said anything about an income tax eliminating another form of tax. If you thought that then you simply implied facts not in evidence.

Elimination of property tax will never happen in Texas and it's impractical at all levels. Additionally, like it or not, it's the smallest government form possible. So if you're a small government person then it is absolutely the best system available.

The primary assumption that must be had, and i will not debate any fool that does not accept this, is some tax or funding mechanism is necessary to fund a level of govt control and oversight required to maintain a civilized society. We can certainly debate what is and is not necessary, but if you do not accept that there are required roles for govt that must be funded, then please move along.

Sales and use taxes break down at the levels at which items and functions are funded, especially outside of high density urban cores. If you live in the middle of a city and never leave the jurisdictional boundaries of that city for any of your purchasing then a sales tax collected by a single governing body would work. For the overwhelming majority that simply is not the case.

For example.... I live in northern unincorporated Harris County and therefore, I pay property tax to the following:

• KLEIN ISD
• HARRIS COUNTY
• HARRIS CO FLOOD CNTR
• PORT OF HOUSTON AUTHY
• HARRIS CO HOSP DIS
• HARRIS CO EDUC DEP
• LONE STAR COLLEGE SYS
• HC EMERG SRV DIST 7
• HC EMERG SERV DIST 11

Some of those are county wide I presume, but others are not. Then others do have overlap into the City of Houston and other incorporated areas. My neighborhood does not have a MUD as our water and sewer systems are privately owned and managed. In the list above ESD 11 is an Ambulance/EMS provider. Their coverage area crosses at least two school districts (that I know for certain) and at least three different fire departments. It's probably more than that, I just don't know the full boundaries.

Shop local/support local are great and wonderful ideas. But it fails when you break it down too small; when your favorite mom & pop donut shop or sandwich shop is covered by the neighboring fire department.

I like to shop local when I can, but I also do plenty of shopping in Montgomery County. I'm equally likely to drive into a quality shop inside the City. It's even worse in rural and even semi-rural counties where there simply is not sufficient population density to support the requisite business base needed to generate the sales tax required to fund the minimal services to maintain society.

Just adopt a sales tax is a nice talking point that I've never seen anyone fully walk through it's implementation.

eric76 said:

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YouBet said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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reineraggie09 said:

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How does Tennessee do it. No income tax and I think really low property taxes.

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I lived in TN 13 years and don't recall exceptionally low property taxes. Mine were about 1.4% of appraised value. I'm running about 1.8% in Texas. The local sales tax was higher at 9.25%, and they taxed dividends over a certain amount while TX did not. Pretty comparable all-in to TX. Both are great states to minimize your overall tax burden compared to others. I live in MI for awhile and they took 4% off the top. GA took 6%. AR took some too.

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They are pretty close. Based on a metric of State and Local Tax Burden per Capita and as a Percentage of Income, Tennessee is the 3rd lowest in the country and Texas is the 6th.

Tennessee is 7.6% (3rd)
Texas is 8.6% (6th)

Perspective:
California is 13.5% (46th)
New York is 15.9% (50th)
Michigan is 8.6% (5th) - effectively tied with Texas

New York took the crown for worst in the country a few years ago when the socialists fully took control and passed significantly higher taxes under a campaign that literally had the "Eat the Rich" campaign slogan.

Edit: we identified TN as a Plan B based on taxes and we love the area. For us, it would a huge drop in tax burden if we moved there simply because we are starting with such a high TCO for our house here in Texas. Yes, we could simply move somewhere else in Texas and achieve the same effect, but we kind of want to live somewhere different for a bit instead of just moving back near a city...if we were to ever leave here.

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One site I looked at says that New Mexico is the 12th highest at $7,752 per capita. If I remember correctly, a relative of mine was bragging about how little he pays in New Mexico taxes.

I think I found the site you are getting this from: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/tax-burden-by-state

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Got it from Tax Policy Foundation which for some reason now doesn't pull up in the same search I did earlier.

Over_ed said:

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Property tax --> everyone pays. Yes, renters end up paying as well.
Billionaire tax, not so much.

What would you replace it with? Sales tax? folks with money still pay more.

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renters do not pay property taxes

MookieBlaylock said:

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Over_ed said:

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Property tax --> everyone pays. Yes, renters end up paying as well.
Billionaire tax, not so much.

What would you replace it with? Sales tax? folks with money still pay more.

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renters do not pay property taxes

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Landlords pass the property taxes along to the renters as part of the rent. As such, renters do pay property taxes.

eric76 said:

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MookieBlaylock said:

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Over_ed said:

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Property tax --> everyone pays. Yes, renters end up paying as well.
Billionaire tax, not so much.

What would you replace it with? Sales tax? folks with money still pay more.

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renters do not pay property taxes

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Landlords pass the property taxes along to the renters as part of the rent. As such, renters do pay property taxes.

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This is what I would tell all the scumbags who would text spam me with political crap every year when I lived in SF when they'd tell everyone that all the new stuff they want to vote in are paid for by evil greedy business owners and property owners. When id tell them that everything is passed onto the customers and renters they'd tell me I'm wrong and get defensive and threatening. Umm...I had a business and a property in the city, so...

Sorry *****, but that's how the world works. Things aren't free, and the rich aren't paying for all the goodies, regardless of what you tell the voters.

eric76 said:

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So what do you think would happen if we added a state income tax. Do you really think that you would be paying less in taxes?

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So what do you think would happen if we abolished property taxes. Do you really think that you would be paying less in taxes?

Martin Cash said:

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eric76 said:

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So what do you think would happen if we added a state income tax. Do you really think that you would be paying less in taxes?

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So what do you think would happen if we abolished property taxes. Do you really think that you would be paying less in taxes?

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Not at all.

Eliminating property taxes would screw up taxes big time. Once all the changes were made to replace the revenue from other sources, I don't think that there is a chance in hell that what we pay would be lower.

Don't forget that the state would have to take over all of the taxes and determine the tax rates and the amounts of tax revenue that each city and county and school receives.

I strongly think that we are better off when more of the tax issues are decided locally than if they are entirely decided by the state.

MookieBlaylock said:

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Over_ed said:

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Property tax --> everyone pays. Yes, renters end up paying as well.
Billionaire tax, not so much.

What would you replace it with? Sales tax? folks with money still pay more.

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renters do not pay property taxes

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You think property owners are just isolating their property tax cost to the side and not passing it on like any other cost input they have to cover?

This is basic economics, bud.